Society and Culture BF style

[RussellEbertHandball]

In one sweep we need to

Change the Aus Day date
Change the flag
Berid ourselves of any ties to UK and the monarchy
Recognition of First Nations people in the constitution and a treaty

For me they all go hand in hand and the date that this occurs on is easily the new Australia Day

I get that these are symbolic gestures and don't address the 'real' issues, but getting them dealt with removes the discussion and debate around this and allows focus onto dealing with the real issues.

As Sir Humphrey would say, that requires courageous leadership Prime Minister.

 

[Pappagallo]

So many NZers felt conned in to a final referendum between a design they wanted to change, and a design they didn't want (the beach towel). That group had their votes split, which made it an easy win for the current flag in the end, as there were far more in the "keep the current flag" group than the "change at all costs" group.

Lol and with that we’ve circled back around to the republic referendum.

 

[Contested Marx]

Lol and with that we’ve circled back around to the republic referendum.

It's all one and the same though isn't it.

progress vs status qo

 

[bomberclifford]

It’s a shame too because there were some cracking original designs along the way.

 

[bomberclifford]

Yep got that - I was just responding to the "unless you don't like England" bit.

You mean the bit that ended with "..., but that's not aesthetics."

Ok.

 

[bomberclifford]

We’d still suffer the same problems I reckon. Just google alternative Australian flag designs. 9/10 are absolute dogshit.

There is absolutely no doubt our process would suffer worse than NZ did.

Look at the balls up/intentional manipulation of the republic referendum.
We're a land of idiots.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

You mean the bit that ended with "..., but that's not aesthetics."

Ok.

Yes that bit.

I'm fine with you differentiating it out between aesthetics vs politics. For what its worth aesthetically I don't think its great either, though there are certainly worse flags... and I think aesthetically the right hand side does look great.

The bit I'm responding to is where you infer the political side is entirely represented by not "liking England"... if you had written your sentence as:

"Unless of course you don't like England or have another political/social reason for not wanting the Jack on the flag, but that's not aesthetics"

instead of...

"Unless of course you don't like England, but that's not aesthetics."

then I wouldn't have responded. Because what I'm saying is that there are reasons you can not like the flag which don't fit in to the dichotomy of "not liking England", or "not liking the aesthetics".

 

[Pappagallo]

Is that one of yours? Full marks for originality but it’s a bit hard on the eye. It looks quite good folded though.

Our new flag should have a trick fold built-in like how the $5 note has the blowjob whale.

 

[bomberclifford]

The bit I'm responding to is where you infer the political side is entirely represented by not "liking England"... if you had written your sentence as:

I did nothing of the sort.
The discussion was about aesthetics and I used it as a flippant example of why someone might not like that part of the flag.
No more, no less.

Your need to punch out reams of verbiage notwithstanding, it was the least relevant part of the entire post.

 

[bomberclifford]

Is that one of yours? Full marks for originality but it’s a bit hard on the eye. It looks quite good folded though.

Our new flag should have a trick fold built-in like how the $5 note has the blowjob whale.

Not mine, no.

A famous designer in NZ put that forward. Didn't get much response from the public but it did get a lot of attention amongst the international design community about flag design and heraldry.

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

The symbolism is off too. Having another flag in the top left corner of your own tells the world that you’re under their thumb. That’s the wrong message here and hardly a unifying one. The combination is also ugly AF. 5 colours on a flag is 2-3 too many.

It just needs to be a simple, clean sheet design that can be easily identified at a distance.

DNA analysis has confirmed that they are the oldest living culture in the world. Stop talking garbage.

just put 80,000 years to a population of 2 million at time of colonization to a people who have no history of depopulation through war etc and you will soon find the numbers dont add up. That's just one of many circumstances and I also doubt the 2 million at time of colonization as it's just a guess as no one really knows because they had no way of knowing, someone made an educated guess

 

[sobrave]

how about we go for a flag with a giant fist holding a bolt of lighting???

 

[Contested Marx]

someone made an educated guess

Lol unlike the uneducated codswallop that you're churning out

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

Lol unlike the uneducated codswallop that you're churning out

Do the maths

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I did nothing of the sort.
The discussion was about aesthetics and I used it as a flippant example of why someone might not like that part of the flag.
No more, no less.

Your need to punch out reams of verbiage notwithstanding, it was the least relevant part of the entire post.

Im just replying because you seem confused about what I said.

Obviously not every post is about the most important part of every other post. A forum would be incredibly boring if you couldnt also discuss side issues.

 

[Contested Marx]

Do the maths

What's the equation pal?

 

[edgie]

Bunch of white dudes debating about what date to change it too still and what flag, thinking the population of Aboriginals people will think they'll both be fine because better than the current situation is better for everyone.

There's no alternative proposal from those with skin in the game. It's the beginning of no day of national celebration. No Australia Day. * I'm usually the knuckle dragger on these things but that's clearly, clearly the long game in play here, and the support for it will not get smaller.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

Bunch of white dudes debating about what date to change it too still and what flag, thinking the population of Aboriginals people will think they'll both be fine because better than the current situation is better for everyone.

There's no alternative proposal from those with skin in the game. It's the beginning of no day of national celebration. No Australia Day. fu** I'm usually the knuckle dragger on these things but that's clearly, clearly the long game in play here, and the support for it will not get smaller.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

Like a bunch of aboriginals debating how the rest of Australians should celebrate a national day. I thought we were all Australians and there was no racial preference. Or is there

 

[Schulzenfest]

Bunch of white dudes debating about what date to change it too still and what flag, thinking the population of Aboriginals people will think they'll both be fine because better than the current situation is better for everyone.

There's no alternative proposal from those with skin in the game. It's the beginning of no day of national celebration. No Australia Day. fu** I'm usually the knuckle dragger on these things but that's clearly, clearly the long game in play here, and the support for it will not get smaller.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

 

[edgie]

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

Hey you wanna tell folks like this the way the feel is wrong and their views aren't rationale go ahead.

Tell those Aboriginals they are wrong and that we need an Australia Day.

'I don't want to change the date. I want to abolish it.'

"I would like you to cancel the BBQ altogether."

www.mamamia.com.au

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[Schulzenfest]

Hey you wanna tell folks like this the way the feel is wrong and their views aren't rationale go ahead.

Tell those Aboriginals they are wrong and that we need an Australia Day.

'I don't want to change the date. I want to abolish it.'

"I would like you to cancel the BBQ altogether."

www.mamamia.com.au

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

I'm not saying those people don't exist, I'm saying that the fact that they exist is no reason not to change the date.

 

[edgie]

I'm not saying those people don't exist, I'm saying that the fact that they exist is no reason not to change the date.

They exist and they aren't a shrinking number. Do you truly believe an Australia Day of a celebratory nature, no matter the date, will and should always be a thing? Once the date is changed a return to over the top jingoistic behaviour will be welcome with open arms, football clubs posting happy Australia messages rather than ones acknowledging atrocities and ongoing struggle that Aboriginals face in lieu of one's expressing pride in our country?

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[Schulzenfest]

They exist and they aren't a shrinking number. Do you truly believe an Australia Day of a celebratory nature, no matter the date, will and should always be a thing? Once the date is changed a return to over the top jingoistic behaviour will be welcome with open arms, football clubs posting happy Australia messages rather than ones acknowledging atrocities and ongoing struggle that Aboriginals face in lieu of one's expressing pride in our country?

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

Red Herring

Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue that to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. While it is similar to the avoiding the issue fallacy, the red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

 

[Contested Marx]

I don't see how Jan 26 won't remain as a national day of mourning, as it should. But given enough consideration to a different day, I'm sure there'll be a majority that are happy to celebrate a more unified national day

 

[Crocodile Dumbdee]

Thats stupid, it looks like a race track final finish flag.