Roast Some Experts don't even have Grundy in their Top 10 Best Players in the AFL

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sirlothie

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What irks me is everyone says Grundy and Gawn are near equal standing but no matter what Gawn is listed ahead of Grundy. This makes no sense as Grundy is the more complete player, Gawn's tap work might be slightly superior but that's not saying Grundy's is bad at all in any way, yet Grundy owns Gawn at ground level, Gawn has no ground level play to speak of. Both are pretty ordinary as forwards. So why is Gawn always listed ahead of Grundy? Grundy is better for mine.
 

Saintly Viewed

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What irks me is everyone says Grundy and Gawn are near equal standing but no matter what Gawn is listed ahead of Grundy. This makes no sense as Grundy is the more complete player, Gawn's tap work might be slightly superior but that's not saying Grundy's is bad at all in any way, yet Grundy owns Gawn at ground level, Gawn has no ground level play to speak of. Both are pretty ordinary as forwards. So why is Gawn always listed ahead of Grundy? Grundy is better for mine.
Fair and strong point.

Answer likely lies in twofold:

1) seniority, Gawn just at the highest levels that bit longer (Grundy will knock him off this year)

2) Collingwood, long held belief magpies are judged that bit more harshly or take longer to get that credit.
 

TradeDraft

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What irks me is everyone says Grundy and Gawn are near equal standing but no matter what Gawn is listed ahead of Grundy. This makes no sense as Grundy is the more complete player, Gawn's tap work might be slightly superior but that's not saying Grundy's is bad at all in any way, yet Grundy owns Gawn at ground level, Gawn has no ground level play to speak of. Both are pretty ordinary as forwards. So why is Gawn always listed ahead of Grundy? Grundy is better for mine.
Because Grundy plays for Collingwood;)
 

davywap

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If you're not going to have grundy in the top 10, ok. But if you've got Gawn at #1, then pull your head in.
 

sirlothie

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Fair and strong point.

Answer likely lies in twofold:

1) seniority, Gawn just at the highest levels that bit longer (Grundy will knock him off this year)

2) Collingwood, long held belief magpies are judged that bit more harshly or take longer to get that credit.
I was happy to see Collingwood had 5 in Robbo's top 50 though, been a while since we had that many. Grundy, Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Beams, De Goey.

And that's not counting Treloar and Adams. And I reckon if he can get back to his best Elliott can make it, as can Moore.
 

Kappa

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What irks me is everyone says Grundy and Gawn are near equal standing but no matter what Gawn is listed ahead of Grundy. This makes no sense as Grundy is the more complete player, Gawn's tap work might be slightly superior but that's not saying Grundy's is bad at all in any way, yet Grundy owns Gawn at ground level, Gawn has no ground level play to speak of. Both are pretty ordinary as forwards. So why is Gawn always listed ahead of Grundy? Grundy is better for mine.
Gawn does significantly more damage in the forward line, and takes more contested marks around the ground.

His taps to advantage are also far higher.

So Gawn is the better forward and better tap ruckmen, Grundy is better at ground level and at clearances off his own boot.

It's-

Marking
Goals
Hitouts

Compared to

Disposals
Clearances
Tackles

As areas one has dominance over the other
 
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sr36

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Did that above young man.

In order is tougher I reckon.

  1. De Goey
  2. Grundy
  3. Pendlebury
  4. Beams
  5. Sidebottom
  6. Elliott
  7. Treloar
  8. Adams
  9. Crisp
  10. Moore
It really is a super group we're putting together. I rate Howe and Crisp much higher than most and my rating of our mids differs a fair bit too. By the end of the year, I'm hoping to have DeGoey much higher and Moore, Sier and Stephenson in there - bloody exciting players.
  1. Grundy
  2. Sidebottom
  3. Treloar
  4. Howe
  5. Crisp
  6. Pendlebury
  7. Beams
  8. De Goey
  9. Adams
  10. Elliott
 

Kappa

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I think if you have Treloar above Beams you didn't watch much of Brisbane lately.
 

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sirlothie

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I think if you have Treloar above Beams you didn't watch much of Brisbane lately.
Can they all be elite in the midfield at the same time? Wonder if we are over stacked now and someone will fall, there's only so much ball to go around.
 

35Daicos

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Gawn does significantly more damage in the forward line, and takes more contested marks around the ground.

His taps to advantage are also far higher.

So Gawn is the better forward and better tap ruckmen, Grundy is better at ground level and at clearances off his own boot.

It's-

Marking
Goals
Hitouts

Compared to

Disposals
Clearances
Tackles

As areas one has dominance over the other
I'm not sure how you can claim that "Gawn does significantly more damage in the forward line". He scored 13 goals (from 25 games) to Grundy's 9 (26 games) in 2018. 25 goals to 9 and you'd have a case! Big Max has 51.40 from 99 games, while Grundy has 36.35 from 108. Gawn is a fantastic player, but I don't see that he has a significant advantage (over Grundy) with his forward work.
 

sr36

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I think if you have Treloar above Beams you didn't watch much of Brisbane lately.
I didn't watch a great deal of Brissy last year, but Treloar was in scintillating form before he did his hammies.
 

Kappa

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I'm not sure how you can claim that "Gawn does significantly more damage in the forward line". He scored 13 goals (from 25 games) to Grundy's 9 (26 games) in 2018. 25 goals to 9 and you'd have a case! Big Max has 51.40 from 99 games, while Grundy has 36.35 from 108. Gawn is a fantastic player, but I don't see that he has a significant advantage (over Grundy) with his forward work.
Gawn has kicked 17 more goals from 9 less games, for guys that don't drift forward too often, that's definitely an area he is much stronger at than Grundy.

For full time forwards that gap is quite small, but considering how much time Gawn spends in the ruck and in defence it's actually a sizeable gap.
 

sirlothie

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Gawn has kicked 17 more goals from 9 less games, for guys that don't drift forward too often, that's definitely an area he is much stronger at than Grundy.
I will give it to Gawn on the goalkicking front as he has been a one out ruckman and still kicked goals but Grundy had Witts so spent more time forward for less goals, but I still think Grundy's work is more impactful at ruck contests which is what I rate more highly. Given both sides are now contenders this season will be very interesting to see who comes out on top now the tables have turned with Grundy being one out and Gawn having Preuss if he gets on the park might see Gawn spending more time forward.
 

35Daicos

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Gawn has kicked 17 more goals from 9 less games, for guys that don't drift forward too often, that's definitely an area he is much stronger at than Grundy.

For full time forwards that gap is quite small, but considering how much time Gawn spends in the ruck and in defence it's actually a sizeable gap.
Come on!! Gawn has a bit of an edge on those figures, but spread over 100 or so games, it's not fair to call it "significant", or say that it's "an area he is much stronger at than Grundy"! It's 15 more goals, BTW.
 
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spartan-magpie

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Spot on.

Ask the “experts” ask non Collingwood people who is better, Cyril Rioli or Peter Daicos?

Cyril great player in great teams is nnot superior than Daicos.

But they’ll dribble all over Cyril.

Daicos was better (far better).

I hate this comparison. Cyril was a gun. Excellent player. Daicos is an absolute all time legend.

You can’t compare a gun player to the marvel.

You can’t compare beluga to Philadelphia cheese spread.

Daicos is once in a 200 year player. Cyril’s come and go, you’ll get one every 10-15 years. I still think Eddie betts is a far better player than Cyril. And Betts would never be considered in the rarified air that daicos occupies.
 

sirlothie

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I hate this comparison. Cyril was a gun. Excellent player. Daicos is an absolute all time legend.

You can’t compare a gun player to the marvel.

You can’t compare beluga to Philadelphia cheese spread.

Daicos is once in a 200 year player. Cyril’s come and go, you’ll get one every 10-15 years. I still think Eddie betts is a far better player than Cyril. And Betts would never be considered in the rarified air that daicos occupies.
Betts is probably the closest. But he is not the absolute freak Daicos was, and I say that not having witnessed Daicos' pre injury midfield days. The only ones who can be in that conversation is Ablett Snr and Matthews. Matthews is the best comparison because he could conjure goals too.
 

jonbe54

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Ablett snr as a forward yes Matthews was always more of a body/physical player - highly effective but not really the same type.
 

sirlothie

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Ablett snr as a forward yes Matthews was always more of a body/physical player - highly effective but not really the same type.
My experience of Matthews is limited to highlights but I noticed he was Daicos like in his ability to gather crumbs and turn them into goals. Probably not the mercurial Daicos stuff though.
 

jonbe54

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My experience of Matthews is limited to highlights but I noticed he was Daicos like in his ability to gather crumbs and turn them into goals. Probably not the mercurial Daicos stuff though.
Daicos only needed half a step to gain separation on his opponents and used that in conjunction with his spatial and player awareness to dispose either to advantage or goalwards with deceptive ease. Matthews I would say was the stronger physically and was more likely to force his way into the clear than step around or feint his way clear.

Both superstars but different methods - Daicos the more mercurial.
 
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