Something about the draft

[The Ball]

I have this idea for the end of season national draft. Well you know how the AFL gives the best draft pics to the team that finishes at the bottom of the ladder at the end of the season, I would like the AFL to change this.

What they should do is put all the eight teams or the bottom 4 teams that do not qualify for the finals and put them into a lottery of some sort to see which team gets the priority draft pics.

This would make teams play better in games that do not mean much. For example, this season it looks like St.Kilda will not make the top eight and probably finish last. What motivation is there for the coach to make the team to play any better when he knows they will finish last or at least near it. He will probably play youngsters in the side just like Collingwood did last year.

I know clubs do not want to lose games delibirately, however it would be benificial for the club to get these draft pics which they can either get a good talanted player or players or trade the pics to another club for a more exipirienced good player.

Thus, this lottery would eliminate this situation ever arising as it would not matter where you finished in the bottom eight or bottom four as it would have no bearing on whether you got the priority draft pics.

This idea of a lottery was founded in Ameriaca, and to myself it seams like a good idea.

Remember I'm not saying teams delibrirately lose games, however this lottery would remove any possibility of it happening.

Agree or disagree.

 

[Shinboners]

I totally agree. Supporters get cheated if their clubs don't put in 100% each game.

 

[elt]

I have a feeling the lottery system may be being used in some US sports. They wanted to overcome those exact problems of teams not using their best players or giving 100% towards the end of the season.

Personally I would hate to think my team wasn't giving their all every game but the Collingwood debacle last year certainly showed that the lottery idea may have merit.

 

[Jaffa]

What are you lot on about?

Collingwood were the worst team last year and didn't need to play for concessions. We really were that crap. As you are currently seeing.

The reason why we played youngsters was because they were better than the duds who were supposedly our mature age players.

The only reason this gets brought up is because it's Collingwood. In 1997 Melbourne were pathetic, but were more talented than Collingwood in 1999, yet no one said they were playing for last place. What about Brisbane in 1998? They were the most talented team ever to win the wooden spoon. Yet no one accused them of playing for last. The same goes for Port and StKilda this year. They have more talent than we had last year yet they are both worse. Haven't heard any mention of them trying to lose.

I thought the Collingwood players tried their gut out in the second half last season but just weren't good enough. We lost about 5 games by less than 1 goal. We never really got thrashed.

You lot are making excuses for Collingwood. They really were crap.

 

[sainter]

Even thought you may have been insinuating that St Kilda haven't been trying, I agree with what you are saying Jaffa

It is fair to say that I am not Collingwood's biggest fan but they were trying their hearts out last year.

What is the problem with clubs experimenting with younger players? Obviously if a team is near the bottom of the ladder they need to have a good hard look at their list and that is what Collingwood did last year and we are doing this year.

The great thing about the national draft is that is gone a long way towards evening up the competition.

Does it reward mediocrity?
It probably does, but not until a club has gone through a very disappointing year.

As for my club, we will be fighting it out with Port and perhaps Freo to not win the wooden spoon. Despite poor and inconsistent form over the past 20 years that I have witnessed, I know they have been putting in. Surely Max pointed that out against the bulldogs.

Doesn't look too much better for us now with Everitt out for 6 weeks, Loewe for 4 weeks, D Wakelin 2 weeks and S Wakelin and J Begley out for the season. Not our best two weeks!

 

[Shinboners]

Sorry Sainter

I wasn't insinuating that St. Kilda wouldn't try for the rest of the season. It's just that in the US, the original draft system operated on pretty similar lines to ours. I think the lottery system operated in basketball where one player can make a difference to the performace of the franchise, but I guess in Australian Rules, one player in a team of 18 on the field won't have as large an impact. But sooner or later, what happens if in the final round, a club on 4 wins and "looking" for that extra draft pick plays a club fighting to finish 4th instead of 5th, or even 8th instead of 9th? Their opponents could get an easy ride into a better finals spot while the club that misses out, well, it makes things interesting doesn't it? I'm not too sure how many of you would remember this, but cast your minds back to 1977 where Ron Barassi was accused of making North players "lie down" in their last match against South Melbourne? Now, imagine that with today's legal and financial minefields, how much impact would a bottom place club have if they "laid down"?

 

[Jaffa]

No, I'm not insinuating StKilda aren't trying sainter. I'm sure they are. No team doesn't try. If they did they'd be belted by 30 goals a game.

My point was that the only reason why Collingwood got lumped with that was because it made a good story for the media.

 

[sainter]

Sorry Jaffa and Shinboner, after reading your posts again I was way off the mark.

Having said that, I still disagree with the lottery system.

In my opinion the best thing about football in the past 10 - 15 years has been the closeness of the competition. I have been reading the '100 years of football' over the past few days and needless to say, my club has been on the end of some fearful thrashings in our history. Well into our third year before we even won a game, in 1899.

Yet at the moment, we have a salary cap and a national draft that are in place to ensure our competition remains equitable. Essendon are dominating at the present time, but fortunately that is not as a result of being a richer club.

While I agree that with under the current position, there is the possibility of a team with 4 wins possibly throwing a game to receive a priority selection, I very much doubt that it would happen.

The players on the ground do not play for draft selections. When a team is last on the ladder, you would expect that they would be playing for their football futures. St Kilda and Port players know that their careers are on the line and I think it would be wrong to suggest that they would consider not playing to their potential.

Winning the 'wooden spoon' is a stigma that no club wants to live with. It is not pleasant at all. Even with a no.1 draft pick waiting for them!

 

[Drakey]

Sainter

Come on. If cricket this year has taught us anything, it's that games can be thrown, for what ever reason.

Also only the coach/selectors need to be in on it.

They can rest players with "injuries" so they can be fresh for preseason. Send them in for surgery before the season is over to increase their recovery period. Play youngsters to see if they have what it takes. Have players out of position to see if they are adaptable, etc,etc,etc.

If you were sure you were going to coach a team the following year & a loss ment a you could claim a priority/1st draft pick then surely it would be tempting.

Especialy if you could claim an uncontracted star.

 

[Daniel]

Exactly. There are so many things a coach could do to influence the result of a match.

Sport, not just cricket, is probably more corrupt than we imagine. The AFL should adopt the same education process for emerging players about betting and match-fixing that the Australian Cricket Board has instituted. Prevention is better than cure.

While performing below potential to win a draft pick is a possibility, the more likely corruption scenario in footy is points shaving. Teams could win and still make money by manipulating the margin.

Saying "oh no, that wouldn't happen in football" is, well, naive and stupid.

 

[sainter]

Well call me 'naive' and 'stupid' for the following reasons DANIEL

1) Firstly I did not say that throwing a game wouldn't happen, I just doubt that it would happen in this era.

2) I acknowledge what Drakey has said in that only the coaches/selectors need be in on it. I suppose we just need to distinguish between the selectors choosing players to give them a chance to prove themselves before being delisted and deliberately picking players in order to lose. For example, Spider Everitt has a knee injury and is expected to return in about round 21. Is it worth the risk to play him or would it be more beneficial to let him recouperate over summer?

3) Once again, I would like reiterate my point that I could not understand why players on a club fighting to avoid the wooden spoon would throw a game when it is quite likely that many are playing for their football livelihood. St Kilda and Port will be having a big cleanout and it is their chance to prove that they are worthy of a spot on a league list. The coaches and selectors jobs could also be on the line.

4) Winning the wooden spoon guarantees a club the number 1 draft pick and possibly a concession pick, yet at the same time it exposes the club to months of ridicule. Memberships for the following year will be effected as well as costing the club potential sponsors.


And Daniel, we were talking about the bottom teams playing for priority draft picks. (And originally the lottery system for the draft) However, as you would well know, 'points shaving' is very much a possibly from all teams and I do not dispute that.

From the naive and stupid one



[This message has been edited by sainter (edited 02 June 2000).]

 

[Daniel]

Sorry Sainter, I owe you an apology. It probably looked like I was attacking you when that wasn't really what I intended.

My "naive and stupid" comment was just a reference to the Warne/Waugh bookmaker scandal of December 1998. After all, and like you pointed out, you didn't say it would not or could not happen in football.

I'm more annoyed at the general attitude that such things could not happen in our great, Aussie game. We thought the same thing about cricket just five years ago, and if it weren't for cricket's match-fixing saga most people would still refuse to acknowledge that such a thing is even a possibility in football.

Why not take preventative measures now? It won't stop those who want to profit illegally, but at least it would be a deterrent for young players. Is there are an agreement not to collude with bookmakers in current AFL player contracts, I wonder?

Addressing your first point, I'm also extremely doubtful that game-throwing would occur. Yet after all the negative publicity and exposure cricket match-fixing received in recent years, Hansie Cronje still dealt improperly with bookmakers THIS YEAR, and I am certain Pakistan deliberately lost to Bangaladesh and India at last year's World Cup.

On your last point, is winning the wooden spoon really such an ignominy compared to finishing 15th with only one more win? I don't think it is. It's not like the difference between finishing first and second, i.e. winning and losing a Grand Final.

A terrible year is a terrible year. I don't believe the affect on memberships would be any different whether a club finished 15th or 16th with a similar number of wins. And winning the wooden spoon may actually generate *more* exposure for sponsors than if a club finished 15th, because of the notoriety it carries.