Opinion Something else happened.

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theGav56

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Right now, based on that single game, Lyon is more likely to get a contract extension than to get the arse. If he eye-balled the Board and said "I have an offer from, say, Carlton; extend my contract, or I'm gone", he'd be more likely to get the extension than the "See ya later".

I think with that single game Lyon has laid out the evidence for the evolution of his future game plan, and the direction of our future. He has pretty much become un-sackable now through that one game. Maybe it goes somewhere this season, maybe it doesn't. But Lyon won't be going anywhere now.

In that game we saw that;
  • the fallacy about the game plan not changing (even when the entire list has been in transition) has been shown up.
  • the charge that Lyon can't run a game plan that delivers a winning score looks vacuous now.
  • the mantra that Lyon only knows dour, defensive football has been exposed.
  • he has laid out the case that the timeframe of 2020 is quite realistic.
  • that the rebuild begins with a complete overhaul of defence, a rewire and restock of the midfield, and topped off with a rejig of the forward line was planned and is being implemented is shown to be sound, logical and on track
We aren't meandering around with an antiquated game plan. We aren't held to ransom by a coach who picks sides out of blind loyalty. We aren't locked into a strategy of bomb it long at all costs. We are a club at one of the most exciting points of our evolution, prepped with an emerging list containing a mixture of flawed geniuses, exciting youth, the old guard, misfits, foot-soldiers and wide eyed hopefuls.

They looked for all the world like they support the coach, have "bought in", that they love the club. No surprises there given how few players we have leave the club, and how many we have wanting to join us.

The season may end up becoming another development year, or it may turn out to be much more if the stars align. But we definitely got a glimpse of the future on Sunday.
 

Superkoops

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Jeez there was a dedicated thread to ‘sacking Lyon’ only a week or so ago. In Lyon’s words one swallow doesn’t make a summer. If he carries us to finals in 2019 and starts off 2020 in fine form we can extend him then. Otherwise he is a couple of bad losses away from that ‘sack Lyon’ thread going gang busters again.
 

theGav56

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Jeez there was a dedicated thread to ‘sacking Lyon’ only a week or so ago. In Lyon’s words one swallow doesn’t make a summer. If he carries us to finals in 2019 and starts off 2020 in fine form we can extend him then. Otherwise he is a couple of bad losses away from that ‘sack Lyon’ thread going gang busters again.
Just to clarify, no way we should even be thinking of extending. But no way a couple of bad losses triggers the sack, but yes, it could trigger that thread's revival.

There is a plan.

It is exciting and plausible.

It makes sense against the list that has been built.

It will be given time.
 

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Clems Knee

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Remember in Lyon’s first year, the team played very well in the first game to beat reigning premiers Geelong in a close high scoring game.

Then the scoring dried up, including in the first derby where Freo scored just 36 points. Freo didn’t score 100 points again until round 16 but then did it again and again, making the finals and shocking Geelong at the MCG in the process. Oh, and Pav outscored the Eagles in the second derby.

My point is that the new game plan worked after a preseason of concentrating on it, but it needed to be bedded down by players so that it stood up week after week. That took some time.

No doubt if we lose a few games on the trot, or the game play isn’t as scintillating as yesterday, the same old whingers will sound the alarm shrilly. My advice would be to be patient. The boys would have gained a lot of confidence from their actions yesterday, but they will need to reinforce their confidence with further wins before we see games like yesterday week in, week out.
 

Cesoir

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Whoa, I am a big supporter or Ross, but I think you've gone a bit early there buddy :)

I've put the pitchfork in the back shed where it's within easy reach if we have a crap year. When everything seemed to be going to crap I was prepared to give Ross this season to show his wares, and one game hasn't changed my view - I still want to wait and see how the year unfolds. We have started each of the last two years promisingly, then dropped off a cliff. We can't do that again.

That said, I am ******* PUMPED with what I saw on the weekend and looking forward to what the rest of the year brings!
 

theGav56

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Whoa, I am a big supporter or Ross, but I think you've gone a bit early there buddy :)

I've put the pitchfork in the back shed where it's within easy reach if we have a crap year. When everything seemed to be going to crap I was prepared to give Ross this season to show his wares, and one game hasn't changed my view - I still want to wait and see how the year unfolds. We have started each of the last two years promisingly, then dropped off a cliff. We can't do that again.

That said, I am ******* PUMPED with what I saw on the weekend and looking forward to what the rest of the year brings!
Oh? You think he is more likely to be sacked than to see out his contract?
 

Cesoir

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Oh? You think he is more likely to be sacked than to see out his contract?
I don't think he will get sacked OR get an extension before the end of the season. Which is more likely depends on the season, not round 1, that's all I'm saying. And that's coming from a staunch Lyon supporter!
 

theGav56

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Or north were appalling ??
Well, that's true.

But so was this;

That game plan is significantly different

When we turn the ball over we now have offensive positioning

So his elite strategies to generate turnover but now Ross has evolved his thinking to position players for the eventual turnover

So the transition phase is really effective

where we never had that before as he was hell bent on destroy as that is easier

Ross almost despised the cheap goals and made everyone work for it. Used to say we don’t want to be front running bruise free etc.. It was flawed.


The attack has been trained as the players look instinctive going forward
 

theGav56

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I don't think he will get sacked OR get an extension before the end of the season. Which is more likely depends on the season, not round 1, that's all I'm saying. And that's coming from a staunch Lyon supporter!
He removed the only argument to sack him, which is the one that goes "he doesn't know how to play attacking football".
 

Snuffaluphagus

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Haha Gav you've gone way too early. Round 1 is round 1 as almost every year shows, there is a lot of water to go under the bridge from here till round 22. Lets at least back it up with the same or similar quality footy over the first month.

And unattractive football was not his only criticism, it was the lack of a functioning forwardline and poor skills as well.

Cant go potting the naysayers for over-reacting then pulling this off 1 game.

And yes he puts some credits back in the bank with that game but there is no way he walks into even Carlton (I'd say St Kilda but that bridge is well and truly burnt) if we dont give a deal he likes, he just doesnt have the currency any more
 

theGav56

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Haha Gav you've gone way too early. Round 1 is round 1 as almost every year shows, there is a lot of water to go under the bridge from here till round 22. Lets at least back it up with the same or similar quality footy over the first month.

And unattractive football was not his only criticism, it was the lack of a functioning forwardline and poor skills as well.

Cant go potting the naysayers for over-reacting then pulling this off 1 game.

And yes he puts some credits back in the bank with that game but there is no way he walks into even Carlton (I'd say St Kilda but that bridge is well and truly burnt) if we dont give a deal he likes, he just doesnt have the currency any more
Totally disagree. The idea that having clearly demonstrated the potential of the game plan and the (somewhat weakened) squad, that he could be sacked is unrealistic. That discussion as a plausible talking point is over I think.

He'd be a long way from being a target for another club. That is not the point either.
 

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That game plan is significantly different

When we turn the ball over we now have offensive positioning

So his elite strategies to generate turnover but now Ross has evolved his thinking to position players for the eventual turnover

So the transition phase is really effective

where we never had that before as he was hell bent on destroy as that is easier

Ross almost despised the cheap goals and made everyone work for it. Used to say we don’t want to be front running bruise free etc.. It was flawed.


The attack has been trained as the players look instinctive going forward


Or north were appalling ??
I could see it with Defence backing themselves to take the game on, leave thier men if need be and seemed to play more in front
.. Wilson and Ryan had faith in the last line knowing Hambling and Pearce were there and we had real springboards firing the ball back through the midfield ..there seemed to be more of a licence to take calculated risk
Those four are huge for us and will lift the rest in the back 6
 

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Snuffaluphagus

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Totally disagree. The idea that having clearly demonstrated the potential of the game plan and the (somewhat weakened) squad, that he could be sacked is unrealistic. That discussion as a plausible talking point is over I think.
I love your optimism but I just cant jump on that bandwagon after 1 game. Just like the bad losses I'll need a body of evidence and we'll have a terrific body after the Derby.

More than anything I appreciate that we can have a difference of opinion and you are always respectful where others (not with me necessarily) cant help but result to abuse
 

theGav56

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I love your optimism but I just cant jump on that bandwagon after 1 game.
I feel like I've been watching the rebuild for a bit longer than that. I've seen transition from defence named as an issue and addressed in that time. I've seen concerns about our rucks named, and addressed to the point where I think we have the best 1-2 combo going. I've seen speed and skills named, and ..... still a work in progress, but the signs are there. I've seen strength at the trade table result in our midfield being a reason for optimism, and we are witnessing a revolution in our forward line that warrants even more optimism. Surgical recruitment to fit a specific game plan.

Not sure where you get the 1 game thing from. But gee the sack the coach bonfires after the JLT games lit up mighty fast. Them JLT games sure pack some insight.
 

mightymouse75

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1 game?
I had given up on ross last week.
And the way he was blaming injuries and scheduling after the secon jlt loss. Ross was clearly nervous. I have never seen him that nervous before. The knives were sharpening.
 

theGav56

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1 game?
I had given up on ross last week.
And the way he was blaming injuries and scheduling after the secon jlt loss. Ross was clearly nervous. I have never seen him that nervous before. The knives were sharpening.
Posters who normally totally disregard Hagdorn and the mob were suddenly quoting them. Was a bit disgraceful really. He wouldn't have given a toss about the JLT, which were reasonable hit outs, but he would have been paying attention to player availability that was dropping like some infamous pants in a kebab shop.
 

Snuffaluphagus

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I feel like I've been watching the rebuild for a bit longer than that. I've seen transition from defence named as an issue and addressed in that time. I've seen concerns about our rucks named, and addressed to the point where I think we have the best 1-2 combo going. I've seen speed and skills named, and ..... still a work in progress, but the signs are there. I've seen strength at the trade table result in our midfield being a reason for optimism, and we are witnessing a revolution in our forward line that warrants even more optimism. Surgical recruitment to fit a specific game plan.

Not sure where you get the 1 game thing from. But gee the sack the coach bonfires after the JLT games lit up mighty fast. Them JLT games sure pack some insight.
Hey man, I've been a supporter of Ross on here for a long time and I've asked people to look at a body of games before calling for him to be fired. I have also never called (I assume that wasnt directed at me specifically) for him to be fired but I think coming on here and saying he is now unsackable based 90% on that game would be the 1 game I'm talking about and to me its the same thing as calling for him to be fired after a really bad game. If we had of just won or lost I doubt you would have made this thread.

And most of the people who wanted him sacked would have said it was on more than the JLT but the last few years as well.
 

theGav56

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Hey man, I've been a supporter of Ross on here for a long time and I've asked people to look at a body of games before calling for him to be fired. I have also never called (I assume that wasnt directed at me specifically) for him to be fired but I think coming on here and saying he is now unsackable based 90% on that game would be the 1 game I'm talking about and to me its the same thing as calling for him to be fired after a really bad game. If we had of just won or lost I doubt you would have made this thread.

And most of the people who wanted him sacked would have said it was on more than the JLT but the last few years as well.
Nah, not directed at you at all. Enjoy your posting.

The point about the 1 games is that he has hit the idea that he can't coach an attacking game plan over the fence and into the stands. He did, and he clearly can. It was planned and precise, and beautifully excecuted despite having 4 debutants.

And you're right, just winning the game, or losing wouldn't have been evidence enough that Lyon can produce an attacking game plan, and I wouldn't make this thread.

Now I'm not saying that gets us a premiership or anything, and I have doubts about Lyon being able to do that. But, I think having shown that he could produce the most attacking game plan of the round, against an evenly matched team, having had a week of turmoil including the loss of key players recruited specifically for that game plan, makes him pretty much untouchable for the remainder of his contract (or say half way through next season which is often when changes happen).
 

Outshined

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Let's just calm it down and see how the season plays out, or more specifically how we play the season out. There's plenty of room for regression or progression, depending how the boys handle better teams than North (i.e. pretty much every other side in the AFL). To borrow one of Lyon's many tropes, it's never as good or as bad it seems. Things can change quickly, especially over the off-season but it was only a few games ago that we didn't kick a goal after quarter time. He's been a divisive figure these last few years and personally I'd absolutely love for him to prove everyone wrong and craft a team that can consistently win while playing exciting, attacking football.

The signs are immensely positive as it stands. It was ******* heartening to see every player on the field chasing and tackling with venom, transitioning the ball with incisiveness and just generally enjoying themselves out there. In saying that, Ross is still under scrutiny, which will only be amplified if we can't back up yesterday's win with another good performance on the Gold Coast. I don't think anyone is expecting us to win 16 games and make top 4, but the bar has been set for the kind of football we should be aiming to play. As long as we consistently hit that mark, the results will come and the boss will continue to have my vote.
 

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1 game?
I had given up on ross last week.
And the way he was blaming injuries and scheduling after the secon jlt loss. Ross was clearly nervous. I have never seen him that nervous before. The knives were sharpening.
Just to clarify - Ross was blaming the injuries on the scheduling. Don’t think he was making excuses on losing a JLT match.

I will never forget his first press conference when announced as Fremantle coach. The WA press were calling for blood but he handled it magnificently.

The local media is a lot more savage on Freo. It may not just be the journalists preferences - there are a lot more Eagles fans in WA, so they are reporting to the larger audience and what they want.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Taylor

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I think that game and the style played has turned moved Lyon's position with the board from leaning towards being replaced to firm hold so if he said he had an offer to coach another side their response currently wouldn't be to sign him to an extension, it would be to hold him to his contract until the end of next year and see how it goes.
 

theGav56

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Let's just calm it down and see how the season plays out, or more specifically how we play the season out.
Not really sure why. Sure a season takes a lot more games, but the overwhelming criticism of Lyon has been answered. A bit like McCarthy's performance, but with far greater ramifications. Posters who want Hogan "in" would have been targeting him, but instead they are looking at Taberner. McCarthy is un-droppable.
 

theGav56

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I think that game and the style played has turned moved Lyon's position with the board from leaning towards being replaced to firm hold so if he said he had an offer to coach another side their response currently wouldn't be to sign him to an extension, it would be to hold him to his contract until the end of next year and see how it goes.
Theoretically yes, but the reality is that if someone doesn't want to be there, you let them go.
 

blue shark

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The only way I can see Ross keeping his job, is that the club does everything in its power to improve the off field support.
The S&C is still a worry, and the assistants need reviewing.
Sure Ross has started on fire, but is that him or the kick up the backside he received?
If he stays the coarse, and the club takes more control, but honestly he wouldn't be happy with a one year deal?
I would love to do what the Dees did, Ross at his age is very unlikely winning a GF, but his guidance could get us finally
over the line.
 

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