Toast Sorry Adam

TheGreatGrundy

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Fair enough- acknowledge your point of view. Of course an alternate possibility to the above is that you misread the motives behind the booing.

At least a portion (I say substantial) was race-based.


  • But why Goodes and not others. I can only speak for myself while accepting that most others feel the same. I just didn't like the guy much particularly after singling out the 13 year old girl then pursuing her via the media. I never felt the same way about any other indigenous player. Maybe some racists saw it as an opportunity for a cheap snipe but I think Goodes is fooling himself if he believes racism was the main issue involved. I also believed the continuous boos that drove him from the game were unnecessary.
 

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Nuwanda

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I think ‘booing’ is just plain weird. In fact, who even came with that word ‘boo’ and why did everyone follow?

Anyway, I don’t boo. Never have and never will. I just cheer.

I don’t like Goodes. I did initially and enjoyed watching him play. But then he really annoyed me with his cheap shots on unsuspecting players. No different to other opposition players who do the same thing.
It’s sad that he felt like he was being personally attacked. I don’t think he was necessarily attacked for his race, but more so for his actions.

Maybe I just don’t get it. I’m still confused by it all and I’m looking forward to watching the doco to understand how he was feeling and why he was feeling that way. Maybe I missed something as generally I only watched swans’ games here and there and was never interested in what was happening earlier in the week.
 

Black_White

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Fair enough- acknowledge your point of view. Of course an alternate possibility to the above is that you misread the motives behind the booing.

At least a portion (I say substantial) was race-based.


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I think the worst thing Adam could have done was come out and say he felt abused by the booing.
Opposition fans took it as a sign of weakness, and what do you do when you see weakness and think it can blunt the effectiveness of a very good player?
You continue to do what is blunting that effectiveness!
Doesn’t make it right, but sure makes it understandable.
 

Doc1763

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I think the worst thing Adam could have done was come out and say he felt abused by the booing.
Opposition fans took it as a sign of weakness, and what do you do when you see weakness and think it can blunt the effectiveness of a very good player?
You continue to do what is blunting that effectiveness!
Doesn’t make it right, but sure makes it understandable.
I think this is why the AFL were pretty quiet at the time. They know they are on the nose with all supporters, and if they had come out real heavy and told people to stop booing him, there could have been only one result.
 

Reg Grundy35

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I think this is why the AFL were pretty quiet at the time. They know they are on the nose with all supporters, and if they had come out real heavy and told people to stop booing him, there could have been only one result.
seriously - what kind of person boos someone more intensely purely because its pointed out that it may be harmful to the victim and they should ease up? only bullies and people who dont give a ****.
 

Doc1763

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seriously - what kind of person boos someone more intensely purely because its pointed out that it may be harmful to the victim and they should ease up? only bullies and people who dont give a ****.
Exactly my point
 

domus

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I have given my view on the main board, but wanted to check out this thread to see whether Collingwood supporters are any different to the general population. Sadly, and given the history of our supporters and some of our leaders, the answer is we are slightly different, but not in a good way. We have a pretty ordinary history as a football club when it comes to racism, and reading the views of many posters in this thread confirms why that is.
Stop it. Please. No-one who disagrees with your view has in any way supported or defended racism. The sanctimony is utterly ridiculous. I have so much more faith in my fellow man than you seem to have.
 

domus

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Fair enough- acknowledge your point of view. Of course an alternate possibility to the above is that you misread the motives behind the booing.

At least a portion (I say substantial) was race-based.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Upon what evidence do you base this conclusion? Why did these people not boo Nicky Winmar and Michael Long? These two indigenous men made bold statements condemning racism and continued to play for many years after doing so. Neither of them were booed after taking their stand. Please explain.
 

PyrrhicVic

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Upon what evidence do you base this conclusion? Why did these people not boo Nicky Winmar and Michael Long? These two indigenous men made bold statements condemning racism and continued to play for many years after doing so. Neither of them were booed after taking their stand. Please explain.
Nicky Winmar was relentlessly booed and racially villified by Collingwood fans the day the famous photo was taken. Do you think Australia suddenly became not racist after that game ended? Use some common sense.
 

sr36

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Nicky Winmar was relentlessly booed and racially villified by Collingwood fans the day the famous photo was taken. Do you think Australia suddenly became not racist after that game ended? Use some common sense.
As a club our initial behaviour towards Winmar and Long and response to their reactions was pretty appalling. The rest of the AFL community, including supporters, weren't appalling though, they stood strongly behind them and condemned our behaviour.
 
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Why is speaking up for something you consider to be unjust considered to be sanctimonious?
IF you smell the fart are you sanctimonious for saying it stinks and we should do something about it? Or should you just suffer and bear it for the benefit of those who cant smell it?
 

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Peter Sidorkiewicz

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As for Ed, well to his credit he knows he was a complete dick in his comments and has tried to rectify it on several occasions. It’s a pity that Goodes has been unable to accept his apologies over the years.
I'm with Goodes on this one. I don't think Eddie was initially sincere with his apology.

It goes back to the incident happened with the 13 year old girl and Goodes. Eddie immediately apologised to Adam and stated that Collingwood had a zero tolerance policy towards racism.

I never felt as proud as I did that day with Eddie taking that strong stance. It was great leadership.

Then 5 days later and the king kong comments blew up in Eddie face and he refused to resign, which pissed me off greatly because it portrays that the zero tolerance policy doesnt apply to McGuire, when it should have, as he is a representative of Collingwood at all times. It doesnt matter that he was wearing his Triple M hat at that time.

Firstly Eddie said it was a slip of the tongue.

And then commented years later that he was on painkillers at the time of the comment. I mean i don't get why he was still trying to look for an excuse for his casual racist remarks.

I feel that Eddie truely hasnt acknowledged properly his wrong doing. "It was a slip of the tongue". " i was on painkillers". Why cant he admit he made a racist comment?

For these reasons, it is why, in my own opinion, I dont think Eddie's apologies are really sincere. And while everyone makes mistakes and you can forgive them for mistakes that they have made, it doesnt mean that you have to like the person again. That's why i am with Goodes.

Personally, I dont think I will ever like Eddie again and since the Goodes incident he has further stuck his foot in his mouth about drowning Caroline Wilson and criticising a disable person for tossing a coin wrong,

You just have to question why these gaffes keep on occuring. Has he really learned from his mistakes of the past. It saddens me we still have a buffoon for a president.
 

Thatsmyname

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Personally, I dont think I will ever like Eddie again and since the Goodes incident he has further stuck his foot in his mouth about drowning Caroline Wilson and criticising a disable person for tossing a coin wrong
You just have to question why these gaffes keep on occuring. Has he really learned from his mistakes of the past. It saddens me we still have a buffoon for a president.
Lets not rewrite history, the drowning comment was first made in the 3AW booth with Caro present and she laughed along with her co-workers, and in the MMM booth it was Danny Frawley that said it, not Ed. It was pretty disgusting that Caro went after the opposition for what her colleagues had done so scratch that one off the list immediately or you're just being sucked into one of her vendettas. The disabled comment was genuinely unfortunate because he had no idea the person was disabled, you can get him on lack of preparation maybe but pinging him for that one is ludicrous, only those with an agenda were pushing that one. Yeah the King Kong one was ridiculous and he could have handled it better in the aftermath but I doubt anything could have fixed that cluster****! but hey still more integrity than any Carlton president living or dead. He's a self made millionaire who has accomplished more than most so you can call him a buffoon but he's so far above us he'd probably crack a rib laughing that nonames were potting him.
 
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augie

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Stop it. Please. No-one who disagrees with your view has in any way supported or defended racism. The sanctimony is utterly ridiculous. I have so much more faith in my fellow man than you seem to have.
Quite simply, no. I won't stop it. I have a view, I am putting it respectfully and you are entitled to disagree.

You do yourself no favours with the absolute nature of your post. Do you seriously believe that no one who disagrees with my view has supported or defended racism? And as for sanctimony, I don't think there was even a hint of asserted moral superiority in what I said. It is interesting that you make the same allegation against me that so many made, and continue to make, against Goodes.
 

sideswipe

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Upon what evidence do you base this conclusion? Why did these people not boo Nicky Winmar and Michael Long? These two indigenous men made bold statements condemning racism and continued to play for many years after doing so. Neither of them were booed after taking their stand. Please explain.
I base my opinion on discussions I had with indigenous people at the time - who are unfortunately subject matter experts. The alternative- that none of the boos were race related, is fantasy. And my opinion of the ingrained racism/sense of superiority that many white Australians silently feel and the booing gave them an opportunity to express it without expressing it. Don’t get ar$ey if you feel you booed with no racial undertones- maybe plenty did. But to claim all did is a joke.

And you guys can give the Winmar/Long wasn’t booed story a rest. It is about as meaningful as saying not all African Americans were lynched so the ones that were can’t have been race related.

My guess is that Messrs Long and Winmar would be more than a little bemused to know that their treatment at the hands of crowds shows the boos didn’t contain a racial element. Pretty sure Long’s big gesture was his walk, which came well into his retirement?


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Lockyer24

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I base my opinion on discussions I had with indigenous people at the time - who are unfortunately subject matter experts. The alternative- that none of the boos were race related, is fantasy. And my opinion of the ingrained racism/sense of superiority that many white Australians silently feel and the booing gave them an opportunity to express it without expressing it. Don’t get ar$ey if you feel you booed with no racial undertones- maybe plenty did. But to claim all did is a joke.

And you guys can give the Winmar/Long wasn’t booed story a rest. It is about as meaningful as saying not all African Americans were lynched so the ones that were can’t have been race related.

My guess is that Messrs Long and Winmar would be more than a little bemused to know that their treatment at the hands of crowds shows the boos didn’t contain a racial element. Pretty sure Long’s big gesture was his walk, which came well into his retirement?


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Fantasy in your opinion. Contrary to belief, a lot of people disagree with you, and they aren't racist either.

They're just not snowflake losers.
 

Sleuth1

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I base my opinion on discussions I had with indigenous people at the time - who are unfortunately subject matter experts. The alternative- that none of the boos were race related, is fantasy. And my opinion of the ingrained racism/sense of superiority that many white Australians silently feel and the booing gave them an opportunity to express it without expressing it. Don’t get ar$ey if you feel you booed with no racial undertones- maybe plenty did. But to claim all did is a joke.

And you guys can give the Winmar/Long wasn’t booed story a rest. It is about as meaningful as saying not all African Americans were lynched so the ones that were can’t have been race related.

My guess is that Messrs Long and Winmar would be more than a little bemused to know that their treatment at the hands of crowds shows the boos didn’t contain a racial element. Pretty sure Long’s big gesture was his walk, which came well into his retirement?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Great post. Huge racism shown to the likes of Long and Winmer and others gone past.
 

sideswipe

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Fantasy in your opinion. Contrary to belief, a lot of people disagree with you, and they aren't racist either.

They're just not snowflake losers.
What is a "snowflake loser"? I remember Billy using snowflake a lot towards Eddie in Love Thy Neighbour. A re-make might have legs.
 

sr36

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I base my opinion on discussions I had with indigenous people at the time - who are unfortunately subject matter experts. The alternative- that none of the boos were race related, is fantasy. And my opinion of the ingrained racism/sense of superiority that many white Australians silently feel and the booing gave them an opportunity to express it without expressing it. Don’t get ar$ey if you feel you booed with no racial undertones- maybe plenty did. But to claim all did is a joke.
I agree with this sentiment entirely, but those who go a step further and ascribe racism to all of the booing, are doing race relationships a disservice. It's great that people are outraged by racism and it's great that they want to condemn racism, but when they start assuming racism and calling things racist without a shred of evidence, thus exaggerating the extent of racism, they're just fuelling paranoia, distrust and division. They're helping to create a racist environment.
The exaggeration of sleights and getting both sides to believe that they are hated by the other side is the division 101 tactic used by the British to create conflict between Hindus and Muslims in British India in order to stop them being united and help the British reign over them and I believe that it's unintentionally occurring here in a whole range of social issues.
 

Dynamics

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Quite simply, no. I won't stop it. I have a view, I am putting it respectfully and you are entitled to disagree.

You do yourself no favours with the absolute nature of your post. Do you seriously believe that no one who disagrees with my view has supported or defended racism? And as for sanctimony, I don't think there was even a hint of asserted moral superiority in what I said. It is interesting that you make the same allegation against me that so many made, and continue to make, against Goodes.
I look forward to watching the film and I'm in support of any steps we can take to address the racism that still exists in our society and our game.

But the problem I've encountered recently is Ian Darling's public assertion that ANY reason ANY person had for booing Adam Goodes is nothing more than an excuse, masking their true (and I suppose in some cases subconscious) racist motivations.

That's as baseless and as absurd as saying no one who booed Adam Goodes was motivated by racism.

It's just another example of the binary thinking which pervades both "sides" of modern social discourse.

If Darling's purpose is to win hearts and minds, he's going about it the wrong way recently in his promotion of the film.

I hope we can see our way past it and actually deal with the issues instead of getting caught up in the weeds.
 

Dynamics

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I agree with this sentiment entirely, but those who go a step further and ascribe racism to all of the booing, are doing race relationships a disservice. It's great that people are outraged by racism and it's great that they want to condemn racism, but when they start assuming racism and calling things racist without a shred of evidence, thus exaggerating the extent of racism, they're just fuelling paranoia, distrust and division. They're helping to create a racist environment.
The exaggeration of sleights and getting both sides to believe that they are hated by the other side is the division 101 tactic used by the British to create conflict between Hindus and Muslims in British India in order to stop them being united and help the British reign over them and I believe that it's unintentionally occurring here in a whole range of social issues.
I find it endlessly frustrating to see how quickly we can fall into tribal thinking. Sadly it's in our DNA so it's a constant battle to overcome it.

I think it's one of the reasons I love team sports. I can pour all of those instincts into supporting Collingwood and Liverpool and it leaves me free to TRY and approach the rest of my life without partisanship.

It's a challenge.
 

gerryg400

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I agree with this sentiment entirely, but those who go a step further and ascribe racism to all of the booing, are doing race relationships a disservice. It's great that people are outraged by racism and it's great that they want to condemn racism, but when they start assuming racism and calling things racist without a shred of evidence, thus exaggerating the extent of racism, they're just fuelling paranoia, distrust and division. They're helping to create a racist environment.
The exaggeration of sleights and getting both sides to believe that they are hated by the other side is the division 101 tactic used by the British to create conflict between Hindus and Muslims in British India in order to stop them being united and help the British reign over them and I believe that it's unintentionally occurring here in a whole range of social issues.
sr36, I think I fall in the category of those that feel distrust. I feel it often and not just with racism. However, I've come to think over time that racism is an important enough issue that I need to set aside my dislike of lefty-do-gooders, moralists and even greenies this one time and take their side on this issue. So I did not boo Adam Goodes, I applauded him, just to make it perfectly clear that I was on his side with respect to this cause.
 

sr36

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sr36, I think I fall in the category of those that feel distrust. I feel it often and not just with racism. However, I've come to think over time that racism is an important enough issue that I need to set aside my dislike of lefty-do-gooders, moralists and even greenies this one time and take their side on this issue. So I did not boo Adam Goodes, I applauded him, just to make it perfectly clear that I was on his side with respect to this cause.
I think applauding him was a great response.

I daresay that in terms of racism some of your distrust is justified, but I believe that some of it is being created because some are so desperate to condemn it that they are imagining fictionalised examples of it.

I'm one of those lefty greenies, so you've taken my side. I just think that accusing people of racist thoughts and actions without evidence and thus heightening fears and division is doing the side a disservice.
 

gerryg400

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I think applauding him was a great response.

I daresay that in terms of racism some of your distrust is justified, but I believe that some of it is being created because some are so desperate to condemn it that they are imagining fictionalised examples of it.

I'm one of those lefty greenies, so you've taken my side. I just think that accusing people of racist thoughts and actions without evidence and thus heightening fears and division is doing the side a disservice.
Let's be absolutely clear, I'm on your side on this single issue only! ;) Oh and Collingwood.
 

Aishole

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I look forward to watching the film and I'm in support of any steps we can take to address the racism that still exists in our society and our game.

But the problem I've encountered recently is Ian Darling's public assertion that ANY reason ANY person had for booing Adam Goodes is nothing more than an excuse, masking their true (and I suppose in some cases subconscious) racist motivations.

That's as baseless and as absurd as saying no one who booed Adam Goodes was motivated by racism.

It's just another example of the binary thinking which pervades both "sides" of modern social discourse.

If Darling's purpose is to win hearts and minds, he's going about it the wrong way recently in his promotion of the film.

I hope we can see our way past it and actually deal with the issues instead of getting caught up in the weeds.
This is spot on.
I never boo’ed Adam Goodes, but if i had of done it, it would have been for reasons outside of race.

I’ve boo’ed plenty of white players. I can guarantee you its not because of race.

This is a weird way to put it, so please everyone try not to take it the wrong way - but, I’d love a world where i could boo an aboriginal player for their performance or something similar, and not a peep is said or assumed about that boo. To me, that’d be a symbol of world that has transcended racism. Where race isn’t a thought anymore.
 
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