Toast Sorry Adam

[Black_White]

Your post makes you unworthy of being taken seriously. How ironic that you brand the President of the U.S.A a white supremacist in a thread about the hurtful abuse thrown at footballers. Again, as I have asked others, upon what do you base your disgusting slur? Trump has achieved wonders for the black community with regards to record low unemployment and a rise in wages. Is this the behavior of a white supremacist? Trump routinely has groups of African Americans in the Whitehouse and has worked hard on prison reform which will benefit many African Americans. I have seen endless footage of African Americans embracing and cheering Trump. Why would they do so for a man you claim hates black people and is aligned with Nazis? Why would a white supremacist be such a friend of Israel? When Trump recently embraced the LGBTQ community and has begun a campaign to decriminalize homosexuality around the world, Cher was still not happy and claimed gays would soon be in internment camps under Trump. That is every bit as deranged as your white supremacist comment.

Check out the clips below and see just how much of a white supremacist we have in Trump.


Trump addresses the 2018 Young Black Leadership Summit in the Whitehouse

Trump honours African Americans at the WhiteHouse.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

 

[Black_White]

I see that you are passionate about this and all the more power to you. But all this is, is us paying for the sins of our forefathers. And there needs to be a period of time where we do get called out and pay that price.
I personally never boo anyone but I also thought that he is a flog. I loved Krakour and Leon when they played for us. Does that make me selective racist? Maybe. Not for me to judge.
I also accept that he has every right to feel racially abused. But at some point you need to look forward and leave the past behind.
Ps I haven’t seen the doco so I’m kind of commenting without that context but I don’t want to deny anyone the right to feel offended if they choose to.

None of us have seen the doco.
We are all commenting on the words of the media.
As it appears to be a bit of a hatchet job on our President, whether he deserves it or not, might give it a miss.

 

[Sleuth1]

Perhaps you’re right. It was never really free speech. The thought police are definitely more strict these days though.

Maybe because of social media and lack of communication skills these days. To agreeably disagree takes skills and needs to be valued. Usually that means no personal abuse. In past history the cultural manners of a country dictated speech and now we have regulations on hate speech. But certainly not all humans had rights or a voice and have been marginalised. Each era and each community has its issues. AFL seems to be front line for our challenges.

 

[magpies42]

I see that you are passionate about this and all the more power to you. But all this is, is us paying for the sins of our forefathers. And there needs to be a period of time where we do get called out and pay that price.
I personally never boo anyone but I also thought that he is a flog. I loved Krakour and Leon when they played for us. Does that make me selective racist? Maybe. Not for me to judge.
I also accept that he has every right to feel racially abused. But at some point you need to look forward and leave the past behind.
Ps I haven’t seen the doco so I’m kind of commenting without that context but I don’t want to deny anyone the right to feel offended if they choose to.

I’m not one to say that if you don’t agree it means you’re racist, I recognise that people have their own understandings and experiences. The point is though that it is a real world issue, in one of the richest and most fortunate countries in the world. It needs to be resolved and if it means that we need to be more empathetic then so be it.

The other point to note is that the mistreatment of the indigenous people was happening well into the 70’s and 80’s in some parts of Australia. So it’s not really that far removed from us. We have only really started acknowledging it as an issue in the last 5 years or so.

 

[sr36]

I'll just assume you are joking because nobody could possibly be that ignorant, his father Fred Trump was arrested in the early part of the last century at a riot started by he and his other KLu Klux Klan members. It's been a part of his family for centuries.

View attachment 691151

I can't believe I'm defending Trump, but I think you need to lay off Games of Thrones. He's not a Targaryen destined to re-live his relative's madness.

 

[Thatsmyname]

I present video evidence of Trump's wonderful work with the African American community and you give me some utter tosh written by partisan hacks who wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit them on the arse. I feel embarrassed for you. With supporters like you, why would Goodes need enemies?

Yes if we overlook his family being members of the KKK and killing Mexican babies he's Albert Schweitzer

 

[Thatsmyname]

I present video evidence of Trump's wonderful work with the African American community and you give me some utter tosh written by partisan hacks who wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit them on the arse. I feel embarrassed for you. With supporters like you, why would Goodes need enemies?

I can present video evidence of him laughing about grabbing young women on the pussy because he was in a position of power, or all the pedophiles he parties with... what 'fake news' are you going to trot out to defend him for the 19 women and a 14 year old girl that have all accused him of sexual abuse? Or his first wife that took him to court for rape? Or are you onboard with all that?

 

[sideswipe]

It amazes me how people continue to state empathically that there were definitely racists booing Goodes because he was an uppity black man. This expression has been used frequently in this thread and it is utterly without foundation. As I have repeatedly asked, why did these same racists remain mute in the years that followed Long and Winmar's bold stands against racism? One would think that due to the fact that these two were the original leaders in this fight to end racism that the pushback would have been far stronger. By the time Goodes made his comments and pointed out the young girl over fifteen years had gone by since Long's famous stand.

It reminds me of the mindless masses who attribute the election of Trump to racism as so many have done. When asked to explain how it is possible when many of those who voted for Trump had previously voted a black man into office on two occasions, one lurches into the murky waters of cognitive dissonance. It is astonishing. It is all too easy to throw the blanket of racism over any issue which disturbs you or you disagree with. It achieves two things-it completely delegitimatizes those you oppose and just as importantly arrays you in a cloak of righteousness.

Because Long and Winmar weren’t booed (I question their treatment by crowds) racism can never be attributed to any crowd boo in perpetuity?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[domus]

Because Long and Winmar weren’t booed (I question their treatment by crowds) racism can never be attributed to any crowd boo in perpetuity?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's very simple. You must explain why the racist mob you claim is out there with such certainty for some completely inexplicable reason chose not to boo or abuse two "uppity" indigenous men who called out their racism but then just as inexplicably chose to boo another indigenous man 15 years later for doing the very same thing.
Or
You could reassess your claims in the light of their total inconsistency. You cannot be a part time racist or a selective racist anymore than you can be a little bit pregnant. It is a belief system and a deeply embedded one which doesn't come and go depending on the time of day or the direction the wind is blowing.

 

[NeverWobble]

I haven’t seen the doco so can’t comment on the specifics but personally I feel that the AFL and individual clubs have actually been leading the community in shedding a light on racism, building meaningful relationships with indigenous communities and supporting our indigenous players. We won’t always get it right but I hope we don’t overlook the positive influence the AFL and clubs have been in this space. I am actually quite proud of our code for the initiative it’s demonstrated over a number of years now. The AFL has been much better in dealing with these issues than many other institutions e.g. the Government .

 

[HeathySure]

It amazes me how people continue to state empathically that there were definitely racists booing Goodes because he was an uppity black man. This expression has been used frequently in this thread and it is utterly without foundation. As I have repeatedly asked, why did these same racists remain mute in the years that followed Long and Winmar's bold stands against racism? One would think that due to the fact that these two were the original leaders in this fight to end racism that the pushback would have been far stronger. By the time Goodes made his comments and pointed out the young girl over fifteen years had gone by since Long's famous stand.

It reminds me of the mindless masses who attribute the election of Trump to racism as so many have done. When asked to explain how it is possible when many of those who voted for Trump had previously voted a black man into office on two occasions, one lurches into the murky waters of cognitive dissonance. It is astonishing. It is all too easy to throw the blanket of racism over any issue which disturbs you or you disagree with. It achieves two things-it completely delegitimatizes those you oppose and just as importantly arrays you in a cloak of righteousness.

Jesus Christ. they were forced to have stances against racism because of the taunts of the crowd. Just an insane ridiculous argument.

 

[domus]

I can present video evidence of him laughing about grabbing young women on the pussy because he was in a position of power, or all the pedophiles he parties with... what 'fake news' are you going to trot out to defend him for the 19 women and a 14 year old girl that have all accused him of sexual abuse? Or his first wife that took him to court for rape? Or are you onboard with all that?

Oh dear -now he is a misogynist and pedophile. I thought he was a white supremacist. That clip where he claimed women "let him grab them by the pussy" was a private conversation which said more about the money hungry females who flocked to Trump because of his status and power than it does about Trump. Note he said "they let you".... that means he never assaulted anybody as so many Trump haters claim. Nothing to see here at all. Unlike Clinton who actually raped women and had sex with another in the Oval Office or his wife he laughed when she helped a child rapist escape prison time, all of Trump's accusers have melted away into the sunset. They all appear to have been full of the proverbial. Anyone who has partied with the rich and famous in Hollywood or New York has undoubtedly rubbed shoulders with pedophiles, drug dealers and murderers. Does that make everyone who attended these parties guilty by association?
Please stop displaying your Trump derangement syndrome-it is unedifying.

 

[domus]

Jesus Christ. they were forced to have stances against racism because of the taunts of the crowd. Just an insane ridiculous argument.

Sigh. And the abuse ceased. What don't you understand? There was no pushback to these two men for doing exactly what Goodes did. You must explain why the racist mob decided to remain silent for over 15 years before becoming racist again.
I could object to your misuse of a name which is sacred in the eyes of many Christians and let you know how deeply offended I am by your use of it.

 

[Bad Horse]

Interesting so who can we boo?

Ponies. Only ponies.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Oh dear -now he is a misogynist and pedophile. I thought he was a white supremacist. That clip where he claimed women "let him grab them by the pussy" was a private conversation which said more about the money hungry females who flocked to Trump because of his status and power than it does about Trump. Note he said "they let you".... that means he never assaulted anybody as so many Trump haters claim. Nothing to see here at all. Unlike Clinton who actually raped women and had sex with another in the Oval Office or his wife he laughed when she helped a child rapist escape prison time, all of Trump's accusers have melted away into the sunset. They all appear to have been full of the proverbial. Anyone who has partied with the rich and famous in Hollywood or New York has undoubtedly rubbed shoulders with pedophiles, drug dealers and murderers. Does that make everyone who attended these parties guilty by association?
Please stop displaying your Trump derangement syndrome-it is unedifying.

Well aren't you repulsive. No they didn't let him!!! that's HIS interpretation of what young women cornered in their dressing room half naked by one the major organisers of the beauty pageant did. His criminal enterprise includes and is not limited to money laundering, bogus developments he attaches the family name to, then lies to prospectives about funding to sucker them in, and when it all collapses he skips out with the money they put up, he is a disgusting conman, rapist, traitor, abuser, criminal and I never really thought we'd have to suffer his moronic supporters on this side of the world... seriously can't believe the brain washing has extended this far

 

[sr36]

I think it's sad that years later we are still debating this matter. History will be on the side of Adam Goodes. History is always on the side of those who campaign for fairness and against discrimination. Some of the drongoes booing Goodes may not have been racists; they may have just mindlessly followed the mob. Some were definitely racists, uncomfortable or even outraged that an uppity black man was telling them how to behave; a black Australian of the Year no less. It was sad and disgraceful that perhaps the greatest indigenous player ever was hounded out of the game. Hounded out of the game by the bullying mob. I suspect the majority of the booing was racially based, but I can't prove it. It doesn't cut it that most of the booing was in response to some of Goodes's less than sportsmanlike behaviour either. Plenty of thugs have played the game and most did much worse than Goodes and were never booed as loud or as long.
One thing is consistent across this debate, back in 2015 and again now; the denial. It's deafening.

My final post on the matter.

There actually hasn't been that much disagreement on this board about the issue. Most people seem to think that the ongoing booing was awful and that racist attitudes are awful. The only difference is that some people believe that the booing of Goodes was primarily racially motivated, whereas some people think it wasn't.

I agree with you that history will be on the side of Adam Goodes's version of events. It will be the story that historically holds sway. As Tyrion pointed out in the final episode of GoT, the most powerful thing in the world is a good story. And the story of a champion being hounded out of the game by a racist mob for standing up for indigenous rights is a really powerful story, therefore it will be the one that is retold and endures. But that doesn't make it the correct story and it wasn't the story that the saga began with.

My view on the cause of the booing is that Goodes's story at the time lacked credibility and lots of people disliked him for it, because they thought he was bullshitting. I'm not saying that Goodes's story wasn't true, I'm just saying that it didn't fit with all the other stories we've heard. When it came to the incident with the girl who called him an ape, we had a player who had recently developed a reputation for complaining for free kicks, whilst also committing some actions that were deemed dirty, so he was already someone you wouldn't cast in the role of innocent victim. Additionally, he was nothing like the victim of any of the stories we tell and re-tell. He was a physically powerful man with confident posture who was extremely successful, famous, idolised by many and probably quite wealthy. He was nothing like the victims we usually tell stories about. Additionally there was a wide held belief that it was simply part of him positioning himself to become a political figure for indigenous activism. So when he cast himself as the face of a victim and a dopey 13 year old girl as the face of racism, people went WTF. The images that went with the story re-enforced peoples skepticism. This strong man pointed into the crowd and a team of security guards, followed by police responded instantaneously to his command and then the dogs of the media responded also to attack the girl. The roles had been reversed. This was not the story of powerful and powerless, bully and victim that we were used to. The general public called bullshit, walked out of the theatre booing the story and the person who was telling it. The story, despite the truth that was almost certainly in it, diverged too far away from what we are normally told.

I'm not saying that my version of events is the whole story, but in my mind it was and will always be the main reason why the booing went virile, regardless of which story wins the battle of best story and endures to make it into the history books. In my mind this story was not a story that began with racism, it was almost the opposite. He wasn't perceived as lesser by his booers, he was viewed as someone too successful and powerful to be a victim. Ultimately though, much like our Phillips debates, if so many people believe entirely different things so strongly, there's probably a bit of truth in both.

 

[SprooseMoose]

So you were clearly incensed by the abuse directed at Stevie Milne for years. He made it clear it was very hurtful and yet our coach, Mick Malthouse, who recently called any booing of Goodes, racist, had the temerity to call Milne a rapist during a quarter time break. Where was the concern for Milne's feelings? The double standards are astonishing. Did the AFL issue an apology to Milne for the abuse he endured for years? I'd rather be mocked for an immutable characteristic (as nasty as that might be) than be accused of committing a heinous crime.

To say 'all that matters is how Goodes feels about it" is ridiculous. If hurt feelings becomes the measure of whether or not certain words can be spoken or actions taken then any criticism of a contestant on The Voice or harsh review of a restaurant's food would mean the outlawing of this hurtful criticism. Donald Trump's election caused some people to have a mental breakdown. Perhaps they should have had another election to comfort these tormented souls.. How can this standard be used to judge the acceptability of hurtful words/behavior? Unless violence is being used or incited, I don't see how this can be policed or where you would draw the line on what is and isn't acceptable.

I'd ask you not to make assumptions about me, or to put words in my mouth. Milne shouldn't have been called a rapist. Malthouse was wrong to call him that regardless of what he says about Goodes. It's almost like the two issues are unrelated. Huh. And so what if it's a double standard by the AFL? People can be right about one thing and wrong about another. It doesn't render both things wrong.

And I'm not at all making suggestions one way or the other about what people can/can't say. Or how sensitive people should/shouldn't be to barbs, slurs and insults. That's a tangent you ran with entirely on your own. All I said was, that in a conversation about whether or not someone feels like they've been racially vilified, the important thing is that they're the one feeling racially vilified. Not whether anyone else thinks it's been exaggerated. Because to suggest that person is being disingenuous with the level of racial hurt they've experienced is to essentially call that person a liar - which would probably be the most pointless thing you could throw towards Goodes after this whole sorry saga.

 

[jmac70]

My final post on the matter.

There actually hasn't been that much disagreement on this board about the issue. Most people seem to think that the ongoing booing was awful and that racist attitudes are awful. The only difference is that some people believe that the booing of Goodes was primarily racially motivated, whereas some people think it wasn't.

I agree with you that history will be on the side of Adam Goodes's version of events. It will be the story that historically holds sway. As Tyrion pointed out in the final episode of GoT, the most powerful thing in the world is a good story. And the story of a champion being hounded out of the game by a racist mob for standing up for indigenous rights is a really powerful story, therefore it will be the one that is retold and endures. But that doesn't make it the correct story and it wasn't the story that the saga began with.

My view on the cause of the booing is that Goodes's story at the time lacked credibility and lots of people disliked him for it, because they thought he was ********ting. I'm not saying that Goodes's story wasn't true, I'm just saying that it didn't fit with all the other stories we've heard. When it came to the incident with the girl who called him an ape, we had a player who had recently developed a reputation for complaining for free kicks, whilst also committing some actions that were deemed dirty, so he was already someone you wouldn't cast in the role of innocent victim. Additionally, he was nothing like the victim of any of the stories we tell and re-tell. He was a physically powerful man with confident posture who was extremely successful, famous, idolised by many and probably quite wealthy. He was nothing like the victims we usually tell stories about. Additionally there was a wide held belief that it was simply part of him positioning himself to become a political figure for indigenous activism. So when he cast himself as the face of a victim and a dopey 13 year old girl as the face of racism, people went WTF. The images that went with the story re-enforced peoples skepticism. This strong man pointed into the crowd and a team of security guards, followed by police responded instantaneously to his command and then the dogs of the media responded also to attack the girl. The roles had been reversed. This was not the story of powerful and powerless, bully and victim that we were used to. The general public called ********, walked out of the theatre booing the story and the person who was telling it. The story, despite the truth that was almost certainly in it, diverged too far away from what we are normally told.

I'm not saying that my version of events is the whole story, but in my mind it was and will always be the main reason why the booing went virile, regardless of which story wins the battle of best story and endures to make it into the history books. In my mind this story was not a story that began with racism, it was almost the opposite. He wasn't perceived as lesser by his booers, he was viewed as someone too successful and powerful to be a victim. Ultimately though, much like our Phillips debates, if so many people believe entirely different things so strongly, there's probably a bit of truth in both.

It’s funny how a black man can be perceived as being in control of forces against an innocent white person, when the opposite has been true in this country for over 200 years.
Aboriginal people have been the victims of genocide. State sanctioned.
That is our history, people just don’t want to accept it, and will vilify anyone who points it out.
That is why Goodes was booed out of the game.

 

[sr36]

It’s funny how a black man can be perceived as being in control of forces against an innocent white person, when the opposite has been true in this country for over 200 years.
Aboriginal people have been the victims of genocide. State sanctioned.
That is our history, people just don’t want to accept it, and will vilify anyone who points it out.
That is why Goodes was booed out of the game.

I'll see your certainty and raise you my certainty, but it's futile we're all relying on anecdotal evidence from the time or guesses or hunches or wishes because the only way of either of us truly knowing is by tracking down all of the booers and somehow decoding the workings of their minds from 2013.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Aboriginal people have been the victims of genocide. State sanctioned.
That is our history, people just don’t want to accept it, and will vilify anyone who points it out.
That is why Goodes was booed out of the game.

You make the last sentence sound like it’s a verifiable fact, when in fact it’s just a strongly held belief of yours. I don’t doubt that you believe it, but that doesn’t make it compelling in and of itself.

 

[Thatsmyname]

I didn't realize how insidious this indoctrination worldwide is, thought it was just confined to Fox news and other white supremacist supported outlets over there... I thought the NRA funding One Nation over here was just an isolated incident... but Trump Putin Brexit, they're all symptoms of a world turning inward, limited resources so hate thy neighbour... I didn't realize til I had to argue against Trump to a fellow Collingwood supporter who has all the zeal of the born again Trumpians over there how much had changed, or reverted I should say...
and it's no good turning to me in the gas chamber and shrugging your shoulders when I say "see!"

 

[Thatsmyname]

It’s funny how a black man can be perceived as being in control of forces against an innocent white person, when the opposite has been true in this country for over 200 years.
Aboriginal people have been the victims of genocide. State sanctioned.
That is our history, people just don’t want to accept it, and will vilify anyone who points it out.
That is why Goodes was booed out of the game.

There's no denying our culpability https://allthatsinteresting.com/australia-genocide

But booed for a range of reasons, certainly racism was one of them

 

[SprooseMoose]

Australian society has always had a hair trigger response against folks they perceive to be cynically exploiting sexism / mental health / disability / religious discrimination / racism or any other shield to avoid accountability for their actions.

And then the shield of ‘victim blaming’ gets held up and people respond by tripling down their distain. Perhaps it’s a natural consequence of a compassionate society - it needs to protect that compassion from abuse and exploitation.

I guess I just don't understand why he'd make such a huge deal about it, and embellish it, knowing the responses he'd surely (and did) get, if it was to simply to avoid accountability for something. You talk about a compassionate society. Shame not much compassion accompanied the several thousand-strong crowds that booed him every week.

How did he conclude that it was racial?

Sure, he’s entitled to his own interpretation, but how is that any proof of intent?

He basically accused the people who first boo’ed him of being racist. (If he’s claiming to be the subject of racial vilification, then by extension he was implying that the perpetrators were racist). That’s probably the harshest barb you can aim at anybody (rightfully IMO) - surely people should take particular care when using that barb?

Probably concluded it was racist after he put his hand up and said "please guys, stop booing me, I find it racially vilifying and hurtful", and then when everyone knew the affect it had on him and the way it was upsetting him, they decided to keep doing it anyway.

I mean, if you know that something you're doing is considered racist by the person you're doing it to, and you continue to do it, you're knowingly doing a racist thing. Even if you're not actually doing it with the intention of being racist. The best thing someone could say in their defence is that they weren't doing it to be racist - they just didn't care that it was. I'd suggest most racists don't know that they're racist, and therefore don't intend to be. You could probably apply that to most classes of awful people.

I am in those categories when it comes to issues of reconciliation and indigenous rights ...

... but like you I agree that people should start using some logic ...

... this whole Adam Goodes episode has been divisive. I don’t see that it has done anything for reconciliation or indigenous rights beyond mere shallow lip service. If anything it has sent it backwards.

I don't think it sent anything backwards. I think it exposed a lot of people's unfortunate true feelings that were already there, on all sides of the political spectrum. And with the AFL doing an official apology, and documentaries being produced, you could argue that we now have tangible examples of good being done in response to this.

 

[HeathySure]

Oh dear -now he is a misogynist and pedophile. I thought he was a white supremacist. That clip where he claimed women "let him grab them by the pussy" was a private conversation which said more about the money hungry females who flocked to Trump because of his status and power than it does about Trump. Note he said "they let you".... that means he never assaulted anybody as so many Trump haters claim. Nothing to see here at all. Unlike Clinton who actually raped women and had sex with another in the Oval Office or his wife he laughed when she helped a child rapist escape prison time, all of Trump's accusers have melted away into the sunset. They all appear to have been full of the proverbial. Anyone who has partied with the rich and famous in Hollywood or New York has undoubtedly rubbed shoulders with pedophiles, drug dealers and murderers. Does that make everyone who attended these parties guilty by association?
Please stop displaying your Trump derangement syndrome-it is unedifying.

it if stopped we wouldnt be having this conversation

 

[76woodenspooners]

It doesn't cut it that most of the booing was in response to some of Goodes's less than sportsmanlike behaviour either. Plenty of thugs have played the game and most did much worse than Goodes and ...

True.

But did any of those thugs attempt to racist shame the people who were booing their less than sportsmanlike behavior? Could that explain why those thugs ...

... were never booed as loud or as long.