Sorry Jeremy

JB1975

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Exactly. Or contact with a hip or chest into the back of the player in front. What about sitting on someone's shoulder, isn't that high contact?

The AFL has a history of implementing new rules or interpretations which continually have unintended consequences. It wasn't that long ago that the in the back rule was changed (Clement continually spanking Hird if I remember correctly) and we've now seen it revert back to pretty much what it always was because all the changes did was unleash major confusion among players, supporters, and officials.

Howe's only issue was that McDonald judged the flight of the footy so poorly that Howe had to reach further forward for the ride than he should have needed to.
Yes, unintended consequences but hardly unforeseeable if they'd expended more than a single brain cell in coming up with the new rule. Some poor umpire, somewhere down the line, was inevitably going to have to take an axe to one of the most revered and distinctive elements of the game, all because the AFL didn't like 'the look' of that one guy who stuck his boot into someone's face...in an indiscretion which could be penalised under the existing laws of the game.

They say they'll 'review' the rule at the end of the year, but these days each end-of-year review by the 'custodians' of the game makes me more fearful about the next instalment of stupidity.
 

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JB1975

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Grand Final 2019 and the Pies are five points up with 30 seconds to go......…...ball is kicked long to the top of the oppositions goal square.

Howe marks exactly the same way?

Is it a free or not AFL?
The AFL have deigned to let us know that the umpire's decision was correct, as per the divine righteousness of the laws of the game. For the duration of this present season, at the will of the Emperor, what was a mark will now be deemed a free kick.

Any questioning of the decree will result in the forfeiture of your seating and attendance privileges, and may necessitate ed-education in the etiquette of contemporary footballing.
 

Mooresome

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Wonder why Riewoldt got away with a worse one on Darcy in round 2, actually drove a straight leg into Moores kidney ,lower ribs ,if you watch the replay you can see how much pain Moore is in after that, Howes was soft didn't hurt Mcdonald at all.
 

DaVe86

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If that reasoning is to be applied uniformly, then knees in the back in the cause of a high mark will also result in an infringement. The high mark ('speccie') would indeed be dead.
I think there is a difference where a player jumps bent knee into the back of an opponent as he leaps for the ball, as opposed to an instance where a player propels himself backwards using his boot into an opponents back.

The Jeremy Howe one was 50/50. I don't think he used much force with his foot, but nonetheless his studs were up.

But I agree that it is a slippery slope. Putting your knee into the back of an opponents head is equally as dangerous (if not more dangerous), yet you can get away with that one as long as you mark it.

It's why this game is so difficult to umpire. You either let everything go, or you crack down on everything.

I think for now, I am comfortable with the AFL legislating against Studs Up. And on that basis, it was the correct call...albeit maybe not in the spirit of the game.
 

DaVe86

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Wonder why Riewoldt got away with a worse one on Darcy in round 2, actually drove a straight leg into Moores kidney ,lower ribs ,if you watch the replay you can see how much pain Moore is in after that, Howes was soft didn't hurt Mcdonald at all.
I agree...and Riewoldt has been marking in this way for most of his career.

As I said above, I am comfortable with the AFL legislating against Studs up, where a player uses his foot to push off an opponent.

It's just a dangerous slippery slope, because as was pointed out by another poster above, any knee to the back, hands used to propel etc would all be technically a push as well. You would basically eradicate the spekky
 

Saintly Viewed

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Grand Final 2019 and the Pies are five points up with 30 seconds to go......…...ball is kicked long to the top of the oppositions goal square.

Howe marks exactly the same way?

Is it a free or not AFL?
There’s only one scenarios that will be at play.

Collingwood will find some bizarre event to cost us the game.

If it was Rampe climbing posts, that’s a fine.
If it was Cox climbing a post, it would be a free to the opposition dead in front.
 

Mooresome

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There’s only one scenarios that will be at play.

Collingwood will find some bizarre event to cost us the game.

If it was Rampe climbing posts, that’s a fine.
If it was Cox climbing a post, it would be a free to the opposition dead in front.
Cox can reach the top of the post doesn't need to climb it:)
 

Pie eyed

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Grand Final 2019 and the Pies are five points up with 30 seconds to go......…...ball is kicked long to the top of the oppositions goal square.

Howe marks exactly the same way?

Is it a free or not AFL?
Face saving Holding free off the ball to the opposition...unlike 2018.
 

domus

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Grand Final 2019 and the Pies are five points up with 30 seconds to go......…...ball is kicked long to the top of the oppositions goal square.

Howe marks exactly the same way?

Is it a free or not AFL?
There would be blood on the sanctified grass of the MCG if that call had been in the last minute of a grand final. I don't imagine security could keep the mob from venting their spleen. Why do the AFL keep introducing rules which force umps to make subjective judgment calls? Fair enough if the boot is kicked at someone's face or ribs in a passage of play as Green did-but this was flying for a mark from behind and Howe had his eyes on the pill. They have created a monster by ticking off that appalling decision.
 

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Saintly Viewed

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There would be blood on the sanctified grass of the MCG if that call had been in the last minute of a grand final. I don't imagine security could keep the mob from venting their spleen. Why do the AFL keep introducing rules which force umps to make subjective judgment calls? Fair enough if the boot is kicked at someone's face or ribs in a passage of play as Green did-but this was flying for a mark from behind and Howe had his eyes on the pill. They have created a monster by ticking off that appalling decision.
As long as they don’t riot too loudly
 

The Royal Sampler

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Grand Final 2019 and the Pies are five points up with 30 seconds to go......…...ball is kicked long to the top of the oppositions goal square.

Howe marks exactly the same way?

Is it a free or not AFL?
Oh come on, that’s a free every day of the week and you know it.

More applicable scenario; Collingwood is up by 60 points in the last quarter of the 2019 GF, Sier breaks from the centre and kicks long to Cox. Cox runs under the ball and McGovern puts his studs into Cox’s back trying to take a hanger. The ball spills over the back, Stephenson swoops on the loose ball and goals. Do they pay the free kick?

Yes, because it’s completely inconsequential and helps us not at all.

Same situation and we’re down by 5 points, McGovern holds the mark this time. The umpire awards a 50m penalty for Cox using his back in such a way as might cause injury to McGovern’s foot, in case he turns the ball over in taking the free kick.
 

TradeDraft

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I'm going to be in the minority but I don't have a problem with the decision.

You can't push a player in the back, so I don't see why it should be allowed to put your boot into a person's back and push him with your foot.

I understand historically that we have turned a blind eye to the rules when it comes to taking spekkies. Basically, it is anything goes as long as the player takes the mark. If they don't get a hand on it, then it's a free kick.

But if we are going to apply the rules in a uniform manner, then I don't think you can go up with your boots and kick a person in the back to take a mark.

I don't mind the rule that if studs are up, then it is a free kick.

Just my take on it.

What got me more upset on the day was the amount of pushes in the back that Melbourne players were doing on our players that weren't paid. Brodie Grundy got pushed a few times, as did our defenders. Up the other end, Cox couldn't buy a free kick. If Jeremy Howe is going to get paid for studs up, then I want all the pushes in the back paid as well.

it's the inconsistency which is frustrating, not the rule itself.
So any touch to the Back should be a Free Kick.

There be tons of Free's Given then
 

jonbe54

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They had to do something about Toby Greene's "marking style". They couldn't let him keep getting away with that - just like they had to do something after Hawthorn turned the 2008 Grand Final into a bit of a farce with all the rushed behinds. The AFL acted soon after that and changed the rules (for the better). Of course we don't know exactly how the umpires were instructed to interpret the "new marking rule", but it's highly likely the umpire who made that decision had the wrong idea! He'll be copping quite a lot of flak for it over the next few days at least!
I have no problem with the umpires per se but with the half arsed rules committee who insist on writing half baked rules that are totally interpretive and an AFL obsessed with arse covering.
 

35Daicos

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I have no problem with the umpires per se but with the half arsed rules committee who insist on writing half baked rules that are totally interpretive and an AFL obsessed with arse covering.
I really was hoping they'd come out and say the umpire got it wrong with the Howe decision, but it wasn't to be! Any similar incidents (especially if they're not penalised) from now on are going to be analysed very closely!

Most people will be quite happy to blame the AFL for "meddling" with the game and making "unnecessary" rule changes, but I tend to put most of the blame on the coaches. Obviously it's their job to try and win, but too many of them don't seem to care if they make the game look ugly with their tactics. That's why I brought up the example of the 2008 Grand Final. Clarkson's tactics helped them win that day, and Hawthorn people wouldn't have cared less, but I didn't enjoy watching the game. Still on Hawthorn, my best mate happens to barrack for them, and just a few months back he was criticising the 3rd man up in the ruck rule, and questioning the need for it to have been brought in. I pointed out that it was probably mostly thanks to Clarkson/Hawthorn/Jordan Lewis that it had come in, and that perhaps he was blaming the wrong people!

There are times when the AFL needs to step in, rather than just let things go.
 

jonbe54

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I really was hoping they'd come out and say the umpire got it wrong with the Howe decision, but it wasn't to be! Any similar incidents (especially if they're not penalised) from now on are going to be analysed very closely!

Most people will be quite happy to blame the AFL for "meddling" with the game and making "unnecessary" rule changes, but I tend to put most of the blame on the coaches. Obviously it's their job to try and win, but too many of them don't seem to care if they make the game look ugly with their tactics. That's why I brought up the example of the 2008 Grand Final. Clarkson's tactics helped them win that day, and Hawthorn people wouldn't have cared less, but I didn't enjoy watching the game. Still on Hawthorn, my best mate happens to barrack for them, and just a few months back he was criticising the 3rd man up in the ruck rule, and questioning the need for it to have been brought in. I pointed out that it was probably mostly thanks to Clarkson/Hawthorn/Jordan Lewis that it had come in, and that perhaps he was blaming the wrong people!

There are times when the AFL needs to step in, rather than just let things go.
Sometimes yes but not to the extent they are doing.

Just step back for a minute and look at a few factoids and see if you join the dots the same way I do.

The biggest benefactor to the league is MEDIA.

The MEDIA require top audience participation for every televised match.

Close matches give both groups of fans hope and will keep them watching for the entire game.

Now I can only analyse those facts in one way but you draw whatever conclusions you want.

For those who don't have and iron clad opinion one way or another . . .

Watch as many replays of TELEVISED games as you can stand . .

Keep track of the score gap and the free kick spread between the teams . .

As the gap widens so umpiring 'interpretation' changes . .

And remember free kicks in the forward half are worth at least 50% more than those in the back half. . .

As for the franchise teams . . well . . that is a whole other story.
 

Mooresome

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Sometimes yes but not to the extent they are doing.

Just step back for a minute and look at a few factoids and see if you join the dots the same way I do.

The biggest benefactor to the league is MEDIA.

The MEDIA require top audience participation for every televised match.

Close matches give both groups of fans hope and will keep them watching for the entire game.

Now I can only analyse those facts in one way but you draw whatever conclusions you want.

For those who don't have and iron clad opinion one way or another . . .

Watch as many replays of TELEVISED games as you can stand . .

Keep track of the score gap and the free kick spread between the teams . .

As the gap widens so umpiring 'interpretation' changes . .

And remember free kicks in the forward half are worth at least 50% more than those in the back half. . .

As for the franchise teams . . well . . that is a whole other story.
I have noticed this as well .
 
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