List Mgmt. SOS's Trade History

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Arr0w

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Nov 13, 2015
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Given the conjecture regarding what was lost and what was gained, this is what SOS's last four years of trades, losses and gains. It does not include players selected with original picks. Players in red, no longer on an AFL list

2015 Trades.png

While we have lost Lamb, Kerridge and Wright in 2018, the opposite side of the ledger has lost Bell, Collins and Hibberd. I still view this trade period as a current win

2016 Trades.png

This period might turn out to be our most successful overall. The volume of talent looks like outweighing the losses

2017 Trades.png


2018 Trades.png


These last 2 trade periods need to be viewed together, as some positions are still on going/intertwined

Ongoing 1
Gained: O'Brien, Schumacher, Kennedy, De Koning,McGovern, 2019 3rd
Lost: Gibbs, Wooller, Richards, Hill, McInerney, Foley, Jordon, McAdam, 2019 5th

Note: Generally I am not in favour of giving up multiple assets, in trades, although, it should always be considered as a balance between quality vs quantity. This position i would rate as a 50/50 at this point

Ongoing 2
Gained: Lang, BSOS, 2019 4th, 2019 5th
Lost: Miers, Hore, Sholl, Young

Note: Given Lang's output, I would currently rate this as a loss, although a bit to play out

I also wanted to highlight what the Crows gained and lost as part of the McGovern trading to acquire pick 13, which again is intertwined with us and Sydney. I won't include the gains/losses by Sydney, given F/S's and academy selections are not a true indication of value

Gained: McHenry, McAdam, Carlton 2019 5th
Lost: McGovern, Foley, Jordon, McInerney, Adelaide 2019 3rd
 
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TooBlue14

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Feb 5, 2015
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I love the Geelong deals over the last two years. People complain about the first rounder and our second rounder similarity with Geelong and that if they won this year the difference will be like 6 picks. Who cares. The pick would of gone to GWS anyway. It was either going to be our second this year or geelongs first. It doesn't matter how close they are what we got back in the whole deal was A ******* LOT. Kerr, polson, macreadie, smedts instead of having a second rounder this year. Easy win. Even if we treat marchbank v tuohy as a straight swap it's a huge win.
 

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zeeCFC

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2015 the Bell and Yarran trade were HUGE wins for us. We also got super lucky that Charlie broke the law.

2016 looked, at the time, like a backwards step (giving up so much for Tuohy) but with Williamson, Macreadie etc it's a long term win for us. Pickett's late form only enhances it.
 

zeeCFC

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All were wins except the Touhy trade (We should have gotten more from Geelong for Touhy regardless of what we then decided to do with pick 15).
The plan was to get a Darcy Lang or at the time, Cockatoo, was being thrown around (presumably we'd have sweetened the deal).

I think the main aim was to get Tuohy done to hand whatever it was we got, over to GWS. Smedts is the only negative from that trade in retrospect. I would have asked for Horlin Smith or someone, but who knows - he may not have wanted to leave.
 

Malifice

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Oct 2, 2007
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The plan was to get a Darcy Lang or at the time, Cockatoo, was being thrown around (presumably we'd have sweetened the deal).

I think the main aim was to get Tuohy done to hand whatever it was we got, over to GWS. Smedts is the only negative from that trade in retrospect. I would have asked for Horlin Smith or someone, but who knows - he may not have wanted to leave.
Call me a harsh marker but we could have done better out of that trade and done something that let us land Marchbank and Pickett and get better value back than Smedts at the cost of our second.
 

Malifice

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Well the jury is still out for me

Touhy + that pick yields VS Smedts + Pickett + Poulson + Marchbank.

Think we are travelling well so far
Those are two different trades.

What I'm saying is we could have done the Touhy trade for better value, got ourselves currency for Marchbank and Pickett and better steak knives than Smedts for our second rounder.
 

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zeeCFC

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Call me a harsh marker but we could have done better out of that trade and done something that let us land Marchbank and Pickett and get better value back than Smedts at the cost of our second.
Definitely, but I think it was reasonable enough to give Geelong the immediate win so we could move onto the next trade spend more time on the GWS/Hawks deals.

Can't discount the sh*t storm Crows caused with the Gibbs news.
 

Arr0w

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Those are two different trades.

What I'm saying is we could have done the Touhy trade for better value, got ourselves currency for Marchbank and Pickett and better steak knives than Smedts for our second rounder.
If you really want to isolate that trade on its own, rather than what it opened up re the Marchbank + Pickett its should be viewed like this:

Touhy + What player they pick this year VS Smedts + Poulson

Forget what you think Touhy is worth, you should view at to what it yields

We might have been able to get more for him, but you don't judge a trade period on one deal
 

Malifice

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We might have been able to get more for him, but you don't judge a trade period on one deal
I'm not judging the entire trade period badly on one deal. I'm judging the deal itself.

I'm confident we could have gotten better in the deal.

SOS clearly thought Smedts had potential (and Billy has let him down or SOS was wrong) or he misjudged our respective future draft positions of each club.

It's the only trade or draft selection I'm critical of. Other than the stubborn demands for 2 1sts for Gibbs. Adelaide were equally stubborn of course so he gets a pass there.

Overall it's been a massive improvement over the past few years. Nearly all our trades and draft selections have been wins so far.

Can't complain overall.
 

GapInIkonPark

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Nov 22, 2015
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So out of the trades where we lost Menzel, Henderson and Tuohy: Plowman, Lamb, Marchbank and Pickett are Best 22 players and Kerridge and Phillips are depth for injuries.

Yarran trade netted the draft pick which got Cuningham, another Best 22 player when fit.

Bell trade plus our second netted the draft pick which got Charlie, another Best 22 player.

Henderson and Menzel trades also netted the draft pick which got Harry McKay. Harry in my opinion will be a Best 22 player by the end of a Season 2018.

Trade with Hawthorn netted us Williamson who is a Best 22 player and Macreadie who is on the fringes of our Best 22, and Kerr.

So to sum up the trades:

- We lost Henderson, Yarran, Bell and Tuohy from the Best 22 and Menzel from the fringes of our Best 22.

- We gained Plowman, Lamb, Marchbank, Pickett, Cuningham, Charlie and Williamson who are established Best 22 players or will be by the start of 2018. McKay and Macreadie will be on the fringes of the Best 22, or will become Best 22 by the end of next year. Kerridge and Phillips provide solid depth.

- Sumner, Smedts and Palmer have not set the world on fire.
 

Arr0w

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Does the trade history include taking Wright and Gorringe as free agents?
Loss v Gain

I have listed them side by side (I will amend it to make it clearer) what we lost in terms of players, picks (how those picks were used at other clubs) vs what we gained.

I have not added the players that we selected at the draft, with our original picks such as Weitering

Wright was picked up with the pick that was gained and not used in the ND, through the Bell trade

Lost: Bell, Skinner, Dunkley, Collins
Gained: Curnow, Wright

As for Goriange, he was added after spots were freed up from delistings and retirements, rather than deals that netted us picks. Happy to add him if that is the general consensus
 

Robert Heatley

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The plan was to get a Darcy Lang or at the time, Cockatoo, was being thrown around (presumably we'd have sweetened the deal).

I think the main aim was to get Tuohy done to hand whatever it was we got, over to GWS. Smedts is the only negative from that trade in retrospect. I would have asked for Horlin Smith or someone, but who knows - he may not have wanted to leave.
Slightly off the topic at hand, but a Geelong supporter friend described Horlin Smith to me as a good seconds player only. Sounds similar to how most of us regard Nick Graham.
 

Foucault1989

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Oct 16, 2016
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I think in the trading business it is unrealistic to expect a win for every trade especially when a player nominates a club. Now don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of Tuohey but in the long run Marchbank and Pickett have more value to our football club. Whilst it would have been nice if we could have not given up that 2017 2nd in the trade, at the end of the day you cannot look at one trade in isolation from the period and indeed the following year with future picks.

I'm more than confident in the ability of the recruiting and list management position to think long term even if that means losing a trade here or there. Just remember when tuohey has retired Marchbank and Pickett will still have 6-8 years of their careers left. When Marchbank runs through the banner for his 200th in a top four team who wins the trade then?
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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The simple fact is that the Tuohy deal that was done was the deal that was accepted by both parties. Any talk about 'we could've/should've got more from the deal' is pure conjecture.
The way I see it, SOS knows when to cut his losses and move on to bigger and better deals. Sure, maybe he could've spent more time haggling the lesser details of the deal. Maybe that would've resulted in no deal getting done for Tuohy and not enough time, or picks to get a deal done for Marchbank and Pickett. People are free to look at each deal in isolation if they wish, but I prefer to look at the big picture.
The net result of that deal when combined with the satellite deals it kick started was (correct me if I'm wrong):
OUT - Tuohy (Let's not forget that he was taken at pick #73 in the 2010 rookie draft and gave us 120 games in 6 seasons) and 2017 #20, 2016 #45 and 2016 #58
IN - Marchbank, Pickett, Smedts, Polson, Macreadie, Williamson, Kerr

That's a win in my book.
 

Jimmae

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An alternate name mentioned in the earlier discussion was Duncan, but apparently his salary was a significant step up from Smedts.

Away from that, I mentioned that asking for pick 38 from them instead of Smedts would have been fair value, putting Tuohy's worth in the 28-35 range.
 

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