List Mgmt. SOS's Trade History
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gab213
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The facts are that when a player appears to be a bust we won't ever know how much that is due to a bad recruiting decision and how much of it is coaching and development.
Maybe we can just say a player is a bust without finding someone specific to blame. The tendency around here is for it to be skewed in SOS' favour anyway. The players who come on and work out well are due to SOS being a god and those who don't clearly haven't been adequately developed or coached.
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gab213
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We traded a pick, not McAdam. They picked up McAdan with that pick, that's a lot different than trading a player directly. You might want to redirect that 'lol' to yourself.
Thats actually not exactly correct.
We were given access to a pre-draft pick which was Mcadam. He was playing in the SANFL and he became part of the McGovern deal.
So, yes we could have kept him if we wanted to. Particularly given he is originally from Halls Creek same place as SPS.
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crocodilian
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Stocker was not part of a pick deal, we traded a future pick to get pick 19 during love trading so we could draft him. I also don't believe he will be a bust, left the hub for personal reasons this year. Next year I can see him pushing for selection
Development is the elephant in the room. Sos drafting success is looking not so great, but your are right, the heat should be on the club on why the group that came after sps draft year hasnt come on.
In relation to his trades. The ones he specifically chased as best 22, thats where id be scrutinizing SOS.
Plowman - solid but no star
Kennedy - hasnt set the world on fire
Setters - developing and we will see if he becomes a game breaker
Mcgovern- underwhelming at best
Marchy - barely get on the field
Its this group that qe chased and paid for with late 1sts or 2nds, that we desperately need to be a success
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gab213
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Thats actually not exactly correct.
We were given access to a pre-draft pick which was Mcadam. He was playing in the SANFL and he became part of the McGovern deal.
So, yes we could have kept him if we wanted to. Particularly given he is originally from Halls Creek same place as SPS.
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We picked him with the express intention of trading him straight on. He was never in the plans to be a Carlton Player and to be fair we haven't seen anything to indicate that he's going to be some kind of star, he's hardly set the world on fire at the age of 25,so it's hardly something to be laughing at SOS over. I don't know what coming from Hall's Creek has to do with the discussion either.
Jeremias
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Thats actually not exactly correct.
We were given access to a pre-draft pick which was Mcadam. He was playing in the SANFL and he became part of the McGovern deal.
So, yes we could have kept him if we wanted to. Particularly given he is originally from Halls Creek same place as SPS.
McAdam was never a Carlton listed player.
Pretty clear we selected McAdam, Kreuger because there were other clubs interested and willing to give us what we wanted to facilitate other trades for players we were keen on.
Had Adelaide not been keen on McAdam there is every chance we would have picked someone else who another club had interest in.
Sure we could have kept McAdam, but just as likely is we were never really keen on him or he wasn't particularly keen to leave South Australia, which I believe was the talk at the time.
As for the Halls Creek connection, that is a huge stretch. There is nothing to say that connection would have made him a more attractive proposition for us, or us a more attractive proposition for him.
u sure about that? i heard he went to a fancy school...
gab213
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Three of them playing in the best 22, week in week out regardless of what you think of them. One who would most likely be in the team if not for injury issues and another who has been in and out of the team, hardly massive failures.
Thats a bit different to saying we never picked him.
We did. And if sos didnt have such focus on getting McGovern maybe we would have kept him to fill the small fwd role we were crying out for.
The scuttlebut around at the time was Mcadam wouldnt leave Adelaide. We with Sps also from Halls Creek, maybe it would have helped him settle in, if we decided to keep him.
Clearly you give SOS a big tick on every draft pick and trade decision. Most of us on here thinks its healthy to scrutinize.
Im neither here or there on it. However, we havent solved the small forward gap and Mcgovern at 26 in 3weeks, is not setting the world on fire
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gab213
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Nope, I have never marked everything SOS did with a tick. My view is that he did the job we paid him to do at a competent level and on the balance of things he put us in a far better position with our list than we have been in years.
No deifying him, never considered him a saviour, just a bloke doing a job.
The thing is I wouldn't expect any list manager to get every recruitment right. I do think he did a good job though.
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Outside of drafting Dow and LOB, I think SOS was above average. But those two are going to sting. Not many clubs can sustain two misses that high in the same draft.
Way too early to make that judgment
KohPhi
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Both have struggled to play senior footy for a number of reasons, and they still may be busts, but i think we need to draw a line through this terrible excuse for a season as having 'scratch' matches, other club's players running around in your side etc has made it really tough to get an accurate angle on things.
I look forward to seeing Dow, Stocker, OBrien etc in a proper system, getting proper development, playing proper footy next season.
Beast__Mode
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no I disagree completely. After three years I expect a player to demonstrate - in patches at least - that they belong. And to improve.
Dow can’t get picked on merit in a team that hasn’t played a Final in seven years. He’s never been able to kick and still can’t. His lack of effort in the games he had this year was glaring and telling. LOB - I don’t even know what he’s supposed to be, as a player. He was a disgrace last week. No apparent care in what he was doing.
I get Carlton fans desperately want these two to be great, I do too. But if they were picked 43 and 51 in that draft no one would raise a murmur if they were delisted this year and I wouldn’t complain if they were.
after 150 quality games from Dow, quote this back to me and tell me what an idiot I am. I have a feeling you won’t.
Beast__Mode
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Here’s another question, would Saad or Williams be necessary if LOB was the hard running HBF/Winger he was supposed to be?
LOB will be a winger, the other 2 (and we'll likely only get 1) would play off HB
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Hawks 2005 - Ellis (#3) and Dowler (#6). 2006 they took Thorp (#6).
Tigers 2004 - Tambling (#4) and Meyer (#12). 2005 they took Oakleigh-Nicholls (#8). 2008 Vickery (#8). 2010 Conca (#6). 2012 Lennon (#12). 2014 Corey Ellis (#12)
Successful clubs have made bad mistakes in the early rounds before. I don't think that 2017 draft will stop us from getting to where we want to go.
To compare again with the Tigers, their real stand outs from first round pick drafting are:
Riewoldt (#13)
Rance (#18) (already retired)
Dusty (#3)
Cotchin (#2)
Vlastuin (#9)
We've got
Cripps (#13)
Walsh (#1)
Charlie (#12)
Harry (#10)
Weitering (#1)
It's hard but need more patience with SPS, Dow, LOB and Stoker. Kemp looks like he'd be a player too, of course we've got to wait and see though with him.
Beast__Mode
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quoting Richmond drafts from the mid 00s is not really relevant - that group was never successful - and you could argue Richmond stuffing up the 04 draft opened the door for Hawthorn and gave them cover for the couple of misses they had. I wouldn’t call Ellis a failure, he played in a premiership if I’m not mistaken.
and yes, having the best coach of the modern, perhaps any, era helps paper over cracks.
SPS is fine. Unlike Dow or LOB he’s shown he belongs on an AFL ground. This year hasn’t been his best, but he belongs. Next year is big for Stocker - if he can’t nail a spot after 3 years I’d be asking the same question of him I’m asking of Dow and LOB.
With shrunken list sizes we don’t have the luxury of carrying players for years in the hope they live up to a draft slot that ultimately is irrelevant the second they arrive at the club.
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Ellis did play in a premiership.. but as a pick #3 when Josh Kennedy and Scott Pendlebury were available? Fair to say they got that pick wrong.
If 04 draft was enough to cover Hawks, why can't the top picks from 2015, 2016 (We have Setters on our list too) and 2018 draft cover us?
And the Tigers got many more wrong, not just mid 00's, as I mentioned already.
I know Dow and LOB not showing much so far is incredibly frustrating... but to be honest there's not that many from that draft that are really setting the world on fire yet...
Blue4Life
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The rest of the recruiting department needs to be looked at...sos can’t be blamed for everything...it was clear in the stocker situation that other members of the recruiting team rated stocker very highly...
I think it was more a case of them saying that they rated him top 6 and sos made things work when he was still available at the later pick. If this was the case we are in trouble moving forward as the rest of the recruiting team remains unchanged.
note: just using Stocker as an example for all other picks.
I think it was more a case of them saying that they rated him top 6 and sos made things work when he was still available at the later pick. If this was the case we are in trouble moving forward as the rest of the recruiting team remains unchanged.
note: just using Stocker as an example for all other picks.
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Yeah that's most likely what happened. We just need to understand that no recruiting team is going to be perfect. They all make mistakes, like I pointed out with the Tigers and the Hawks.
Percy2257
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Just watched The Round So Far on the AFL website. Cornes and Cleary got stuck into McGovern. Cornes thinks he’s not tradeable given his high contract which has 3 years left to run. I think we should trade him and pick up part of his salary. He is a big fail at Carlton.
They also think that Simmo should’ve stayed with Eddie being the one to retire.
Why couldn’t Simmo be moved into the forward line?
They also think that Simmo should’ve stayed with Eddie being the one to retire.
Why couldn’t Simmo be moved into the forward line?
