South Africa vs Australia; Fourth Test at The Wanderers, Johannesburg

[DJMac]

Well in fairness we have destabilized touring teams as well, so SA just playing our own game

I agree, they played a much harder game and delivered on the field when it mattered.

 

[sherb]

New Zealand have backbone and guts. They fight and scrap to go with some very good cricketers. Look no further than their draw against England today. Completely fair enough that they're ahead of Australia.

This Australian team? Not so much. Although admittedly it's impossible not to imagine that the circumstances of the tour and the attendant controversies will have had a deleterious effect on whatever will to fight that did exist.

There was zero "backbone and guts" in today's play. None. Zilch. Nada. Coming off losing 10/50 in the last Test.

If anything, I would have thought the circumstances they found themselves in recently would have made them get their backs up and fight twice as hard in the 3rd and 4th Tests.

Instead, they wilted and all but gave up, making them look like mollycoddled front runners.

 

[PhatBoy]

Which part is inaccurate?

The fact that you’ve completely ignored that, save for Smith when both sides are at full strength, SA are man for man a much better outfit, and attributed the result to everything BUT their superior cricket is one part.

 

[damochandler]

They have to change everything. First thing to change has got to be the high performance manager. He’s done nothing for 8 years and everything has gone backwards since he got the job.

 

[DJMac]

The fact that you’ve completely ignored that, save for Smith when both sides are at full strength, SA are man for man a much better outfit, and attributed the result to everything BUT their superior cricket is one part.

Check posts

 

[The Passenger]

Given we lost out last 10 wickets for 50 runs in the third test, we've lost our last 30 wickets for 390 runs.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Remember when Brade's used to shitbag Steve Smith? He had to go pretty quiet on that one.

you know if you talk about someone you should actually learn to use their name correctly.

And I shitbagged him for terrible form and poor bowling, never for batting talent. Keep up or you'll be a passenger forever.

 

[The Speaker]

Remember when Brade's used to shitbag Steve Smith? He had to go pretty quiet on that one.

He is right to say that both have flaws, and he's not alone. Smith is yet to perform in England. He's not necessarily a flat track bully, but the moving ball has a proportionally greater effect on him than it does on something other batsmen. But guess what? He's still averaging over 60 and has won plenty of games that would have otherwise be lost.

Cummins is also yet to perform in England. The short stuff has worked with the Kookburra + bouncy pitches of Australia and South Africa, and has done decently in the sub-continent. But will he be able to adjust to English conditions? Neil Wagner is a similar, though more limited, type of bowler, and didn't do that well in England (or India) on his only foray there. But guess what? He's still averaging 24 and has won games that would otherwise have been lost.

So there's a point to the criticism, but it only takes you so far. If you concentrate so much on the tree, you lose sight of the forest, because you're so certain that the tree is all you need to be aware of.

 

[PhatBoy]

He is right to say that both have flaws, and he's not alone. Smith is yet to perform in England. He's not necessarily a flat track bully, but the moving ball has a proportionally greater effect on him than it does on something other batsmen. But guess what? He's still averaging over 60 and has won plenty of games that would have otherwise be lost.

Cummins is also yet to perform in England. The short stuff has worked with the Kookburra + bouncy pitches of Australia and South Africa, and has done decently in the sub-continent. But will he be able to adjust to English conditions? Neil Wagner is a similar, though more limited, type of bowler, and didn't do that well in England (or India) on his only foray there. But guess what? He's still averaging 24 and has won games that would otherwise have been lost.

So there's a point to the criticism, but it only takes you so far. If you concentrate so much on the tree, you lose sight of the forest, because you're so certain that the tree is all you need to be aware of.

Criticism works, and is valid, when someone fails.

Cummins hasn’t proven himself in England. Nor has he failed. He’s passed every test put in front of him so far. Call attention to the fact that he’s still got boxes to tick? No problem. But calling his bowling s**t, when it has been first class?

Ludicrous

 

[The Passenger]

And I shitbagged him for terrible form and poor bowling, never for batting talent. Keep up or you'll be a passenger forever.

Yet you couldn't resist pot shots on Smith for every rare failure since his stunning rise in form.... Keep fighting the good fight mate.

 

[Blue1980]

He is right to say that both have flaws, and he's not alone. Smith is yet to perform in England. He's not necessarily a flat track bully, but the moving ball has a proportionally greater effect on him than it does on something other batsmen. But guess what? He's still averaging over 60 and has won plenty of games that would have otherwise be lost.

Cummins is also yet to perform in England. The short stuff has worked with the Kookburra + bouncy pitches of Australia and South Africa, and has done decently in the sub-continent. But will he be able to adjust to English conditions? Neil Wagner is a similar, though more limited, type of bowler, and didn't do that well in England (or India) on his only foray there. But guess what? He's still averaging 24 and has won games that would otherwise have been lost.

So there's a point to the criticism, but it only takes you so far. If you concentrate so much on the tree, you lose sight of the forest, because you're so certain that the tree is all you need to be aware of.

Smith has made 3 centuries in England

 

[Glacier]

Which part is inaccurate?

None
You are childish, salty and petulant

 

[The Speaker]

Smith has made 3 centuries in England

On three flat pitches.

 

[The Passenger]

Smith has made 3 centuries in England

Has been a bit up and down in England.

First two tons are ticks. First one was a dead rubber but for a young batsmen still not established in a team playing in an away Ashes test - that's no dead rubber. Double century in a winning cause is a tick, even if the pitch was flat. Run a ball fifty setting a target in the third innings as well.

Third ton at the Oval 2015 was largely irrelevant when weighing up his credentials as a batsmen.

Failed in the two tests when the Ashes was on the line and that will no doubt weigh heavily in the 2019 series.

Hasn't excelled in England, but hasn't struggled in the way someone like Ponting did in India.

 

[010203]

One of the most tumultuous series is over and congratulations to South Africa who are worthy winners. A tour that started memorably has ended dismally from an Aussie perspective. South Africa got better as Australia struggled as the series went on. Rabada and Markram are two stars who'll be the scourge of Australia for a fair period of time just as Pat Cummins will be a bonafide star for Australia.

A new coach will come in due course, my preference is Jason Gillespie but Sussex and loyalty to them may come into play on Dizzy's part. Tim Paine will remain captain. I like the pre match handshake, i hope they continue with it with both teams taking turns to initiate the handshake before the start of each test.

I will say though that copying New Zealand's nice guy approach is a case of be careful what you wish for. I think our public will struggle to warm to a team that is very nice but not very successful.

 

[Sea fog]

Gosh we only made it to the second new ball once, and in our first innings in Durban. People everywhere making excuses, but this was the nut of it.

 

[PhatBoy]

One of the most tumultuous series is over and congratulations to South Africa who are worthy winners. A tour that started memorably has ended dismally from an Aussie perspective. South Africa got better as Australia struggled as the series went on. Rabada and Markram are two stars who'll be the scourge of Australia for a fair period of time just as Pat Cummins will be a bonafide star for Australia.

A new coach will come in due course, my preference is Jason Gillespie but Sussex and loyalty to them may come into play on Dizzy's part. Tim Paine will remain captain. I like the pre match handshake, i hope they continue with it with both teams taking turns to initiate the handshake before the start of each test.

I will say though that copying New Zealand's nice guy approach is a case of be careful what you wish for. I think our public will struggle to warm to a team that is very nice but not very successful.

Only if they are stupid enough to equate that niceness with said lack of success

 

[DJMac]

None
You are childish, salty and petulant

Whatever you say petal.

 

[PhatBoy]

Gosh we only made it to the second new ball once, and in our first innings in Durban. People everywhere making excuses, but this was the nut of it.

Any chance of you addressing your pre-series comments?

 

[Bradesmaen]

Yet you couldn't resist pot shots on Smith for every rare failure since his stunning rise in form.... Keep fighting the good fight mate.

We're talking like 5 years back.

 

[Blue1980]

Has been a bit up and down in England.

First two tons are ticks. First one was a dead rubber but for a young batsmen still not established in a team playing in an away Ashes test - that's no dead rubber. Double century in a winning cause is a tick, even if the pitch was flat. Run a ball fifty setting a target in the third innings as well.

Third ton at the Oval 2015 was largely irrelevant when weighing up his credentials as a batsmen.

Failed in the two tests when the Ashes was on the line and that will no doubt weigh heavily in the 2019 series.

Hasn't excelled in England, but hasn't struggled in the way someone like Ponting did in India.

Yeah I agree, he isn’t Bradman though he’s got going to make runs every time he bats. Would be nice if he made some runs in struggling causes in England next year, like he did in India last year

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Hard to believe 3 weeks ago we had just won the first test comfortably and were all eyeing a possible series win. We were at full strength and full of confidence, they were missing the world's best quick in Steyn for the series, and Rabada had just got himself rubbed out.

Since then;

• Beaten comfortably in the second test
• Warner tried to start a fight with De Kock
• Warner, Bancroft and Smith got themselves suspended for a year, completely gutting our batting
• Got belted on field in the third test
• Lehmann resigned
• Staring down a 500 run loss in the final test

Not even Shakespeare could pen a tragic comedy of this magnitude.

Sounds like a cricket version of Oedipus Rex. Start off lord of all you survey, then try to find out the truth of some dastardly deed while those around you say "that's really not a good idea'' and wind up with dead wife, who is actually your sister, and for the big finale, you gouge your own eyes out. Pure theatre.

 

[The Passenger]

We're talking like 5 years back.

2015 is five years ago?

You were still going a bit last year, although even you had to (largely) give up on potting Smith at that point.

 

[Bradesmaen]

2015 is five years ago?

You were still going a bit last year, although even you had to (largely) give up on potting Smith at that point.

Whatever you like Trevor.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Here's what I'd like to see happen .... and it won't because we all know about Cricket Australia's love affair with money and it's priority over the health of the game in this country.

I think the last thing we need is Kohli & Co coming to Australia and taking every opportunity to get the Australians stirred up, as we know he will do. I would love to see Australia cancel all international engagement for the 2018-19 season, and rebuild the Test team by placing emphasis upon the Sheffield Shield competition. 66 of Australia's best cricketers auditioning for a spot in our Test team.

There's no guarantee of success, but it's just something I think Australian cricket needs right now.