South Africa's 5m AIDS sufferers and Mbeki

medusala

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Mbeki hits out at white 'bigots' in AIDS row
By Rory Carroll
Johannesburg
October 27, 2004

South African President Thabo Mbeki has made a scathing attack on whites who link AIDS to the alleged promiscuous and predatory behaviour of black Africans.

Mr Mbeki turned a parliamentary debate on HIV/AIDS and rape into a broadside against "bigots" who he said regarded blacks as "subhuman disease-carriers".

The President was asked about his silence on a pandemic that infects 5.6 million South Africans, more than in any other country, and replied that the real issue was prejudice.

"I will not keep quiet while others whose minds have been corrupted by the disease of racism, accuse us, the black people of South Africa, Africa and the world, as being, by virtue of our Africanness and skin colour, lazy, liars, foul-smelling, diseased, corrupt, violent, amoral, sexually depraved, animalistic, savage and rapist," he said.

Using language that disconcerted some of his own supporters, Mr Mbeki said certain whites regarded blacks as "rampant sexual beasts, unable to control our urges, unable to keep our legs crossed, unable to keep it in our pants".

The main opposition party, the Democratic Alliance, said the comments were a disgrace and Mr Mbeki was ignoring a disease estimated to kill at least 600 South Africans every day.

Since succeeding Nelson Mandela as president in 1999, Mr Mbeki has queried the connection between HIV and AIDS and the safety of anti-retroviral drugs, citing research by dissident scientists who have suggested that the disease is not transmitted by sexual contact.

Critics said he had fallen for crank theories, and after a wave of protest inside and outside South Africa he announced that he would "withdraw" from the debate.
 

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Admin #2
I'm not sure what point exactly your trying to make with this post. The idea that Mbeki's government has rather pooor beliefs in the causes and treatment of AIDS has been well reported in the past.
 

medusala

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I knew it was bad there but 5.6m!! Thats a pretty fair slice of the population and obviously devastating for those involved and their families. Wouldnt you think Mbeki would be doing everything he could to solve this problem rather than just falling into the old African trick of blaming everything on the white man?
 
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South africa isn't even the worst country, although even by Africa's standards, Mbeki has been prett backward. AIDS swamps every other major issue in sub-Sahara Africa; famine, dictators, economies, lack of infrastructure. That's why the relatively recent breakthrough in patent reform was so vital to bringing help to these people. The map below gives a pretty good indication of the problem.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Africa_HIV-AIDS_300px.png
 

Tim56

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#6
No one has ever caught AIDS by keeping it in their pants (an exaggeration I admit, but in the vast, vast majority of cases it is transmitted through sexual contact), so I don't exactly know what Mbeki is on about.
 

CharlieG

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#7
notenoughteams said:
Met an woman from Ghana once. She was surprised at how ignorant Australians were about Africa. Is anyone educated about Africa and able to name all the African countries. I'm under half.
I gave it a shot, and got 49. That's not all, but it's pretty close.
 

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#8
Tim56 said:
No one has ever caught AIDS by keeping it in their pants (an exaggeration I admit, but in the vast, vast majority of cases it is transmitted through sexual contact), so I don't exactly know what Mbeki is on about.
Strange, I thought intravenous drug use was right up there in spreading aids.
 

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#9
CharlieG said:
I gave it a shot, and got 49. That's not all, but it's pretty close.
I've gone to a map and still don't know them. Union. Its an island in Indian Ocean but not on this map. There is supposed to 52 the map says. In awe of 49.
Burkina Faso. Never heard of it. Guinea Bissau. never heard of it. You been there.
 

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#10
As far as Mbeki goes, what else would you expect from Mugabe's cousin??


I'll give listing the countries a go.

South Africa
Egypt
Zimbabwe
Algeria
Ethiopia
Somalia
Eritrea
Senegal
Central African Republic
Tunisia
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Guinea Bissau
Mozambique
Rwanda
Morocco
Chad
Benin
Niger
Nigeria
Ivory Coast
Benin
Sudan
Zaire
Madagascar
Mauritius??
Namibia
Kenya
Mali
Botswana
Tanzania


That's the best I can do, not even half I don't think.
 

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#11
Looking at the map above I reckon I could just about name every country there.

With the possible exception of the small West African countries with a southern coastline... then I'd be reduced to educated guesses.
 

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Fire

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#15
Just a question, but does anyone know of any AIDS figures outside of Africa? Did the site where that map came form have a global version Jim Boy?

It would be interesting to see how prevalent it is in Australia and other developed nations.
 
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#17
Jim Boy said:
South africa isn't even the worst country, although even by Africa's standards, Mbeki has been prett backward. AIDS swamps every other major issue in sub-Sahara Africa; famine, dictators, economies, lack of infrastructure. That's why the relatively recent breakthrough in patent reform was so vital to bringing help to these people. The map below gives a pretty good indication of the problem.

Going by that map, Botswana would be one of the worst-affected, and yet it happens to be one of Africa's most prosperous countries :eek:
 
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Admin #18
Fire said:
Just a question, but does anyone know of any AIDS figures outside of Africa? Did the site where that map came form have a global version Jim Boy?

It would be interesting to see how prevalent it is in Australia and other developed nations.
 
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Admin #19
David Votoupal said:
Going by that map, Botswana would be one of the worst-affected, and yet it happens to be one of Africa's most prosperous countries :eek:
Ironic isn't it. Probably the best run country in Africa for the past 30 years and it has the world's highest rate of AIDS infection.
 

Fire

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#20
Thanks Jim Boy.

I recon the AIDS epidemic is sometimes passed under the radar in terms of its potential destruction.

Until it ravages a first world country, I doubt much will be done about it.
 

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#21
David Votoupal said:
Going by that map, Botswana would be one of the worst-affected, and yet it happens to be one of Africa's most prosperous countries :eek:
Yes, which is part of the tragedy.

What isn't really considered so much is the social/economic effect of having so many people sick and dying.

In those parts of the world, AIDS tends to hit certain demographics harder...mainly the teenagers/young adults..ie, the people who are the 'future' of the country...you're looking at almost 50% of these people having AIDS..ie, considering the health care in that part of the world, 50% of a generation will DIE within 5-10 years.

~10% of children grow up orphans because their parents die of AIDS. This number would be higher, but many of those children are born with AIDS and so don't live very long. The (relative) number is rising however.

So many people in southern Africa are sick, that they simply don't have people to care for them ( even if they had the drugs ). This lack of manpower also applies to bringing up those orphans, so another generation will grow up with less education ( etc ) than the already low standards the country would otherwise have.

The saddest part is that the figures are already so high that it is almost impossible to stop these countries from going backwards socially and economically without a level of support from the outside world which, frankly, seems extremely unlikely.

I remember a story I read that brought home to me just how bad things are there and I'll try and recount it for you all.

There is a Diamond mine in Botswana ( thats a MAJOR industry there ) and the owners recognise that it takes months to train a miner, and years before they're really good. The company realised that they would go out of business if they didn't provide retroviral drugs to all affected employees, becuase otherwise their lifespans would be too short to be effective workers and they couldn't hire and train new, healthy, workers quickly enough. These drugs aren't cheap ( this was before the recent easing of copyright restictions ), especially compared to wages in that area, so you can assume that they really had no alternative.

In other words, a couple of years ago, it was already so bad that they had a very major labour shortage amoung fit, strong, young men.

NB. they also provided education/support for the unaffected to try and keep them that way, sadly, but not totally unreasonably, testing for their potenial spouses/mates.


BTW..I can name every country in Africa ( although I might be a little out of date on a name change or two ).
 
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notenoughteams said:
I've gone to a map and still don't know them. Union. Its an island in Indian Ocean but not on this map.
It is?

Are you sure you're not thinking of Reunion? which is part of France DOM-TOM. There's a restuarant near me that specialises in cuisine from Reunion.

Do you know of Sao Tomé and Principe(I had some chocolate from there today)? What about Ungaja and Pemba? Rodrigues? Mayotte? Glorioso??
 

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Jim Boy said:
It is?

Are you sure you're not thinking of Reunion? which is part of France DOM-TOM. There's a restuarant near me that specialises in cuisine from Reunion.

Do you know of Sao Tomé and Principe(I had some chocolate from there today)? What about Ungaja and Pemba? Rodrigues? Mayotte? Glorioso??

It is Reunion. All no's. Ill do some research.
 
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#24
Jim Boy said:
It is?

Are you sure you're not thinking of Reunion? which is part of France DOM-TOM. There's a restuarant near me that specialises in cuisine from Reunion.

Do you know of Sao Tomé and Principe(I had some chocolate from there today)? What about Ungaja and Pemba? Rodrigues? Mayotte? Glorioso??
Mayotte is a dependency of France, while Rodrigues belongs to Mauritius but has self-government.
 

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#25
Having consulted the atlas, the three I didn't get were Gambia, Gabon and Guinea. Curse these G's... I had Ghana, Guinea-Bissau and Equitorial Guinea. Sigh.

Never been to Africa (anywhere outside Oz, in fact). Would like to go to South Africa, Botswana, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Egypt, Morocco, Ghana, Senegal, Mauritius...
 
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