South Africa's 5m AIDS sufferers and Mbeki

Pessimistic

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#26
It's absolutely appalling to look at the map. I think the president is making the point that the world is saying they some how 'deserve' it. I suppose ameticand 'deserve' to be shot dead indiscriminately because their constitution gives the the 'right' to bear arms.

It's loke the landmine thing. Sometimes it seems we are happy to take their mineral resources off them but only give them back in the form of landmines.
 

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bunsen burner

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#27
Fire said:
I recon the AIDS epidemic is sometimes passed under the radar in terms of its potential destruction..
There's already 6.5 billion people on the planet and rising rapidly. How many people can our planet cope with? I'd say no more than 10 billion. Couple this with the fact that there is a limited amount of resources in many African nations and reducing the population will enable others to survive easier, I'd say there's people around who aren't overly upset about it.

And of course there is the issue of why other countries would devote enough time and resources to fix the problem. It's simply not feasible.

Until it ravages a first world country, I doubt much will be done about it
The main difference is education. We have developed drugs that hold off the disease for a while, but inevitably these people still die from AIDS related causes. In 1st world countries we educated ourselves in the 80s to limit the spread of the disease. This and our lack of poverty/desperation are the main reasons why we have a relatively low AIDS rate.

We can't turn back the clock, we don't have enough money and resources to educate these people, and we can't cure the poverty problem that is rampant in many of the countries mentioned.

The chances are that AIDS won't ravage a 1st world country like it has to the other countries mentioned. As soon as the numbers go up, the educational advertising campaigns will come out.
 

bunsen burner

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#28
Pessimistic said:
It's absolutely appalling to look at the map. I think the president is making the point that the world is saying they some how 'deserve' it. .
Either way he's still wrong.

I suppose ameticand 'deserve' to be shot dead indiscriminately because their constitution gives the the 'right' to bear arms.
Where has anyone said that Africans deserve to die of AIDS? Seems you just believe what you want to believe. I guess it fuels your left wing 'us against them' and 'let's right all the wrongs' ideals.

Maybe you should take the fight up on facts rather than stuff you just fabricated?
 

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#29
bunsen burner said:
The chances are that AIDS won't ravage a 1st world country like it has to the other countries mentioned. As soon as the numbers go up, the educational advertising campaigns will come out.
There is a real risk that there could be an AIDS epidemic in East Asia within the next 5 -10 years. China already has over a million HIV sufferers though Taiwan, South Korea and Japan are also at risk largely due to ignorance and high risk behaviours.

I can't speak for Taiwan and Japan, though have heard the situation is similar to that of South Korea. The vast majority of Koreans believe that AIDS is a foreigners disease and that they're somehow immune from it, and sex education in this country seems not very thorough. Korea luckily continues to have a very low rate of infection, however the last couple of years have seen increases.

Korea's still a very patriarchal society and many Korean men are promiscous (sp?), going out drinking and whoring with fellow company workers after work is culturally acceptable and widespread. Studies have shown that Korean men rarely use condoms and prostitutes serving them rarely insist. The dangers of this may not be so high in Korea due to the low rate of HIV infection. However, Korean businessman take this high-risk behaviour with them to neighbouring countries on business trips where they're renowned for insisting that the prostitute serving them does not wear a condom.

A big component of these business trips (apart from their actual business dealings) it seems is drinking and whoring, and the most popular destinations are Japan (not so bad); China, Vietnam, Thailand and the Philippines (all of which have a serious HIV problem).

The sad thing is that the men that bring stds home after their trip overseas may spread it to their wives, girlfriends or other women.
 
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#30
David Votoupal said:
Going by that map, Botswana would be one of the worst-affected, and yet it happens to be one of Africa's most prosperous countries :eek:

It also has a lot more accurate figure of HIV/AIDS infections. The rate in other African nations could be well and truely higher where statistics like this are just not kept and organisations tend to estimate.
 

Pessimistic

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#31
bunsen burner said:
Either way he's still wrong.

Where has anyone said that Africans deserve to die of AIDS? Seems you just believe what you want to believe. I guess it fuels your left wing 'us against them' and 'let's right all the wrongs' ideals.

Maybe you should take the fight up on facts rather than stuff you just fabricated?
He's seond guessing what HE thinks whites think about blacks who have aids and I'm seconf guessing what he's on about and also making the point that the whole thing is a tragedy. So LIGHTEN UP

I just wanted to outline that no-one 'deserves' a cruel life simply because they are ignorant. Of course we know the reality is much different. I used the analogy to america to somehow prenet it in a way to think about it a different way. The sad fact is that in america it is the blacks who most often kill and are killed.

It is however a sad reflection that as a whole we can let things get so bad. The media does not help. the recent bomb in indonesia passed quickly to say no australians were hurt, then we found one little girl who had applied for, and was succasseful in getting a visa. suddenly she had a name and a story. Then she 'seemed' top prefer italy as a home and the media dropped her again.


seems like you need a passport to be viewed as human
 

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#32
Pessimistic said:
It is however a sad reflection that as a whole we can let things get so bad. The media does not help. the recent bomb in indonesia passed quickly to say no australians were hurt, then we found one little girl who had applied for, and was succasseful in getting a visa. suddenly she had a name and a story. Then she 'seemed' top prefer italy as a home and the media dropped her again.
You need a reality check. Of course we as Australians are going to be more interested/concerned if Australians are involved. You seem to have a problem with it. Why?
 

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#33
Whilst the overall numbers of AIDS cases in Britain is still low, the relevant public health bodies have become alarmed at a large rise in the last couple of years, the rise is nothing to do with a change in the behaviour of British people or a sudden rise through the general population but it is almost entirely due to immigrants with the disease entering the country, most of them are from sub saharan Africa whilst some are from eastern Europe.

This is how it's going to affect a 1st world country.

Britain has a policy of often allowing people with AIDS to stay on the grounds that they won't get decent medical care at home, the cost in monetary terms is £1m per year per person to the Britiush health service.

Of course the issue of AIDS screening for immigrants is still a very touchy subject, it's strange though when we continually have it drummed into us in 'the war on terror' that the most important role of government is to protect it's people, that they're quite willing to attack another country thousands of miles away but back away from carrying out a procedure that would protect people here in a much more meaningful way.

Whether screening was used to bar entry to the country or was used merely to locate cases & perhaps tell those that wouldn't otherwise know that they'd contracted it so that they could undergo treatment & change their behaviour so as not to put others at risk, surely either is preferable to keeping ourselves ignorant as to what is happenign in our country.

It's a very tough issue to deal with both in practical terms & moral ones but at the end of the day I guess everyone would want the chances of them contracting HIV from a sexual encounter to be as low as possible.
 

bunsen burner

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#34
Interesting points. I wouldn't be happy at all if our Govt let in anyone who wanted to immigrate here who had AIDS. Would want the risk of spreading and wouldn't want to pay for their treatment.

Does anyone know if we AIDS test immigrants?
 

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#35
bunsen burner said:
Interesting points. I wouldn't be happy at all if our Govt let in anyone who wanted to immigrate here who had AIDS. Would want the risk of spreading and wouldn't want to pay for their treatment.

Does anyone know if we AIDS test immigrants?
You'd think that the Detention Centers would have a pretty strict medical regimen, don't know about the others though.
 

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#36
bunsen burner said:
Interesting points. I wouldn't be happy at all if our Govt let in anyone who wanted to immigrate here who had AIDS. Would want the risk of spreading and wouldn't want to pay for their treatment.

Does anyone know if we AIDS test immigrants?
Yes since 1989.
 

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Jumpin' Jimmy

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#38
bunsen burner said:
Pheeew. Sigh of relief. All those boat people I slept with in exchange for a meagre sandwich or a 20c piece won't come back to haunt me.
Lucky you did not get salmonella poisoning from the sandwiches they gave you BB.
 
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