Southern Football League (Tas) Thread

[Ozguy]

I didn't see it at the time but went back and had a flip through the papers and found that, it's spot on about Madeline Ogilvie.
Worst president the SFL has ever had by a long, long way. Patently disinterested in the every day happenings of the competition, ignorant to the clubs and what's going on with them. Only interested in herself, telling all and sundry about how she's the first woman to be head of the SFL at every opportunity, getting pics of herself at the odd social function for social media and continuously spruiking womens football at the expense of the actual competition she's supposed to be running purely to further her political profile. Would know nothing of the league's history or that of the clubs themselves.
An abject disaster quite frankly who does little to no work of any value with the league whilst trying take all the credit, and any insider with the SFL would confirm that (and have numerous times).

Christine Carr from the Claremont Magpies would be a far better candidate in that role and would do the job much more efficiently without all the "look at me, look at me!" attitude.

The SFL seems to have had a problem for many years with politicians taking up roles in it to put themselves in the spotlight.
Peter Hodgman was involved in the league in its early years and did a half-arsed job of it, I will give him some credit in that he did spruik the league in the media constantly, then Jim Wilkinson came in in the early 2000s and hardly ever even attended a match.
Will Hodgman, the current Premier, was head of the SFL in the early to mid-2000s during the Premier/Regional League days and was known as "Weak Willie" by many people due to his fence-sitting attitude and reluctance to make good decisions.
Hobart Football Club had a former AMWU leader and DPAC senior staffer called Philip Baker as president for eight years who virtually destroyed the club.
Hobart has never recovered from his dismal eight year tenure as president and most likely never will.
Paul Harris was another that came in after the defection of a number of clubs to the TSL, the SFL seemed to trundle along under his watch and saw lopsided results and clubs coming and going, and from the 2009 defection, the league has continued to fall down ever since.
Needs a lot of changes to bring it back to what it was.

If you want a female President, Christine would be the Number 1 woman involved in the SFL that would be ideal for the position.

The League started going backwards once Roger Viney ended his tenure as President. Paul, Angus, Kyron, Madeline... Out of those 4, Paul was by far the best TBH.

 

[Kingpin]

If you want a female President, Christine would be the Number 1 woman involved in the SFL that would be ideal for the position.

The League started going backwards once Roger Viney ended his tenure as President. Paul, Angus, Kyron, Madeline... Out of those 4, Paul was by far the best TBH.

Yeah would agree with that totally.
Angus Adams was at Glenorchy for many years and came to Hobart when Peter Hudson starting coaching up there in 1986 and spent the next 16½ years up at the HFC where he was property steward and eventually rose up the ranks to become Vice President in the early 2000s.
At the same time he was also head of Master Rules in southern Tasmania.
I'll give him his dues, he was an excellent volunteer and very efficient but his people skills were terrible.
Ran a lot of great people out of the club who never returned and cost us a lot of sponsorships as well.
Eventually he ran for President at the end of 2002 after John Blake retired as President and Steve Gillbee stepped down as coach.
When he lost out in the vote to Philip Baker (who in the end was even worse), he walked out on the club and went to Brighton where he pretty much did the same thing out there.
Huge control freak with an authoritarian attitude.
They reckon he was still doing the same thing when he was at the SFL years later.
I haven't seen him for about 8 years, I heard last year he was suffering from Alzheimers and not in a good way at all.

When Hobart left the TSL after losing about $300,000 in five years for no return and came back to the SFL in 2014, Kyron Johnson was in charge of the SFL by that stage and it was very evident that the league was falling down quite badly, even back then.
It was nowhere near to the same standard or professionalism that it was back in 2008 under Roger Viney when we'd last played in it.
Seemed to be very poorly run and had no real leadership, the crowds had slipped and there was no real passion there.
Appears to have gone downhill even further every year since then.
One thing I have noticed is how poor the crowds have been at SFL games since 2014 at every club, no proper sponsorship for the league at all, no publicity and the clubs are having to stump up the cash (what little they've got) to keep it going.
Terrible leadership, they used to have a very strong committee running that league in years gone by but apart from two or three people doing the bulk of the legwork at ground level, there's nothing up top.
It's becoming like a ghost league in many ways and unless there's big changes and the whole thing is rebranded, I can see it peetering out into a four or five team comp within a decade.

 

[Ozguy]

The lasting memory of Angus for quite a few people would be when Glenorchy was in for a season and he wanted a final 8 in an 11 team comp. Got rather shitty when clubs so NFW!

 

[Tigerssaints]

Yeah would agree with that totally.
Angus Adams was at Glenorchy for many years and came to Hobart when Peter Hudson starting coaching up there in 1986 and spent the next 16½ years up at the HFC where he was property steward and eventually rose up the ranks to become Vice President in the early 2000s.
At the same time he was also head of Master Rules in southern Tasmania.
I'll give him his dues, he was an excellent volunteer and very efficient but his people skills were terrible.
Ran a lot of great people out of the club who never returned and cost us a lot of sponsorships as well.
Eventually he ran for President at the end of 2002 after John Blake retired as President and Steve Gillbee stepped down as coach.
When he lost out in the vote to Philip Baker (who in the end was even worse), he walked out on the club and went to Brighton where he pretty much did the same thing out there.
Huge control freak with an authoritarian attitude.
They reckon he was still doing the same thing when he was at the SFL years later.
I haven't seen him for about 8 years, I heard last year he was suffering from Alzheimers and not in a good way at all.

When Hobart left the TSL after losing about $300,000 in five years for no return and came back to the SFL in 2014, Kyron Johnson was in charge of the SFL by that stage and it was very evident that the league was falling down quite badly, even back then.
It was nowhere near to the same standard or professionalism that it was back in 2008 under Roger Viney when we'd last played in it.
Seemed to be very poorly run and had no real leadership, the crowds had slipped and there was no real passion there.
Appears to have gone downhill even further every year since then.
One thing I have noticed is how poor the crowds have been at SFL games since 2014 at every club, no proper sponsorship for the league at all, no publicity and the clubs are having to stump up the cash (what little they've got) to keep it going.
Terrible leadership, they used to have a very strong committee running that league in years gone by but apart from two or three people doing the bulk of the legwork at ground level, there's nothing up top.
It's becoming like a ghost league in many ways and unless there's big changes and the whole thing is rebranded, I can see it peetering out into a four or five team comp within a decade.

IN The defense of HFC, after being accepted and playing state league We were then booted out of the comp . by Dominic Baker and Scott Wade.,The Mercury. (B Stubbs )
AFL Tas spent $500,000 on the development of the twin ovals in ,Kingston( ( Kingston were NOT in the state league ).This attack on us has, gone on for 10 yrs . We can NOT retain/ attract Players, Sponsors , supporters. and volunteers.

The attempted merger with NHFC'.and the continuing fiasco's for both clubs

Roger Viney was in charge at HCC ground development , he deliberately Stopped redevelopment at the TCA ground and NH oval ,ask cricket Tas guys .The facilities at the TCA are archaic.
In favor of moving cricket and football to Blundstone arena. Roger wanted us broke ( the proceeds of the sale of the Brisbane hotel. funds held by the sports club.) HFC pays more $$$$$$for rent of the ground (6 mths) than comparable sports clubs in the city. we share a common recruiting areas
HFC in the 60s ,our supporters built / paid for the small change rooms. still used to this day.
when we went back to SFL , we had 8 players at our 1st training
Even the SFL put a moratorium on recruiting from other SFL clubs

 

[fumbler]

IN The defense of HFC, after being accepted and playing state league We were then booted out of the comp . by Dominic Baker and Scott Wade.,The Mercury. (B Stubbs )
AFL Tas spent $500,000 on the development of the twin ovals in ,Kingston( ( Kingston were NOT in the state league ).This attack on us has, gone on for 10 yrs . We can NOT retain/ attract Players, Sponsors , supporters. and volunteers.

The attempted merger with NHFC'.and the continuing fiasco's for both clubs

Roger Viney was in charge at HCC ground development , he deliberately Stopped redevelopment at the TCA ground and NH oval ,ask cricket Tas guys .The facilities at the TCA are archaic.
In favor of moving cricket and football to Blundstone arena. Roger wanted us broke ( the proceeds of the sale of the Brisbane hotel. funds held by the sports club.) HFC pays more $$$$$$for rent of the ground (6 mths) than comparable sports clubs in the city. we share a common recruiting areas
HFC in the 60s ,our supporters built / paid for the small change rooms. still used to this day.
when we went back to SFL , we had 8 players at our 1st training
Even the SFL put a moratorium on recruiting from other SFL clubs

Don’t rip my head off but why don’t HFC move to Sandy Bay?

 

[JM71]

Don’t rip my head off but why don’t HFC move to Sandy Bay?

From a practical point of view, why would we expect the same council to suddenly charge lower rents? Would there even be availability given use by other clubs. What clubrooms would we have to be able to generate income?

From a club supporter view why would we want to flush 75 years of history down the drain? I'd suggest the drop in gate etc would be more than any savings playing out of Queenborough. Let alone the fact Hutchins and SBJFC are current tenants of the ground.

 

[fumbler]

From a practical point of view, why would we expect the same council to suddenly charge lower rents? Would there even be availability given use by other clubs. What clubrooms would we have to be able to generate income?

From a club supporter view why would we want to flush 75 years of history down the drain? I'd suggest the drop in gate etc would be more than any savings playing out of Queenborough. Let alone the fact Hutchins and SBJFC are current tenants of the ground.

Understand all the history etc. but this is the problem why a lot of clubs die off, their inability to grow outside of their comfort zone.

Also besides Queenborough you have Uni oval, clark st and Churchill.

Maybe the council fees are so large is due to the upkeep of the old structures. Thus why I said to move. You say it would cost the same elsewhere under the same council yet have not looked have you?
I think you’ll find it would be a lot cheaper if you just utilised a ground with minimal facilities and started fresh while also remembering the history

 

[JM71]

Understand all the history etc. but this is the problem why a lot of clubs die off, their inability to grow outside of their comfort zone.

Also besides Queenborough you have Uni oval, clark st and Churchill.

Maybe the council fees are so large is due to the upkeep of the old structures. Thus why I said to move. You say it would cost the same elsewhere under the same council yet have not looked have you?
I think you’ll find it would be a lot cheaper if you just utilised a ground with minimal facilities and started fresh while also remembering the history

Given I have booked grounds in the City of Hobart I can tell you the hourly rates, so I guess I have some idea. Venues are currently all oversubscribed (hence why Hobart trains at Montrose Bay High School over summer months). In addition to that problem is the challenges of trying to fit Seniors, Womens, Reserves, Under 19s and Masters onto a ground. Plus junior teams! I guess the existing tenants of any grounds would be happy to accommodate another club?

Another complication, the venues you've mentioned other than Queenborough they don't have the ability to run a gate (i.e. you can walk into Uni oval from any side). Just on the pure gate takings you'd be asking the club to forgo in excess of $17k a year.

Never mind the possible lack of ability to run a canteen, or a bar. Again your nice romantic idea of change doesn't seem to reflect any practicalities.

 

[Kingpin]

Given I have booked grounds in the City of Hobart I can tell you the hourly rates, so I guess I have some idea. Venues are currently all oversubscribed (hence why Hobart trains at Montrose Bay High School over summer months). In addition to that problem is the challenges of trying to fit Seniors, Womens, Reserves, Under 19s and Masters onto a ground. Plus junior teams! I guess the existing tenants of any grounds would be happy to accommodate another club?

Another complication, the venues you've mentioned other than Queenborough they don't have the ability to run a gate (i.e. you can walk into Uni oval from any side). Just on the pure gate takings you'd be asking the club to forgo in excess of $17k a year.

Never mind the possible lack of ability to run a canteen, or a bar. Again your nice romantic idea of change doesn't seem to reflect any practicalities.

Yep, and that's the big problem.
I get what he's saying but unfortunately if Hobart leaves the TCA and goes to a lesser costly venue to base itself, play matches etc and it ends losing even more revenue and falls even further behind. Catch 22 really.
I often wonder what North Hobart are charged to rent the North Hobart Oval, one would think it would be higher than at the TCA, and their crowds would mirror Hobart's pretty much.
DOSA pays not a lot for rent so I've been told, but no one will tell you the exact figure, like getting blood from a stone trying to find that out.
When Hobart had to rent out the TCA, (Seniors & Reserves), New Town Oval (SFLW) and Queenborough (Colts) two years ago the HCC actually dropped the rent at the TCA to $9,000 that year after all the renovations.
Affected our crowds and revenue bigtime that year and with all the added costs, the club lost nearly $30,000 over it.
Councils don't like overuse of their facilities any longer.
We could go to Clare Street Recreation Ground, home of the old Railway Blues, and fit in 200 people and make next to nothing with no facilities.
We could go to the University Oval in Sandy Bay and be fighting with Uni Rainbows in the Old Scholars and the cricket with no facilities, attendances of 150.
Go to Queenborough and you'll be fighting against Hutchins, STJFL and Sharks cricket club and no facilities.
Added problem to all that is whether the SFL would allow it and we more than likely would be kicked out of the comp.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

From a practical point of view, why would we expect the same council to suddenly charge lower rents? Would there even be availability given use by other clubs. What clubrooms would we have to be able to generate income?

From a club supporter view why would we want to flush 75 years of history down the drain? I'd suggest the drop in gate etc would be more than any savings playing out of Queenborough. Let alone the fact Hutchins and SBJFC are current tenants of the ground.

Why don’t they play at north Hobart oval Craig Martin seems like a pretty reasonable guy to work with the two clubs could share the rental costs you would think with all the money getting spent there the council would be keen to see it used as much as possible roster there home games around north Hobarts with the lights there would opportunity to play night games they normally draw crowds there’s plenty of local ovals they could use to train on screw the tca ground that rental cost is ridiculous for a rundown facility.

 

[fumbler]

Why don’t they play at north Hobart oval Craig Martin seems like a pretty reasonable guy to work with the two clubs could share the rental costs you would think with all the money getting spent there the council would be keen to see it used as much as possible roster there home games around north Hobarts with the lights there would opportunity to play night games they normally draw crowds there’s plenty of local ovals they could use to train on screw the tca ground that rental cost is ridiculous for a rundown facility.

People hate change.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

D

People hate change.

didn they play some of there home games there when they were in the state league?

 

[fumbler]

D

didn they play some of there home games there when they were in the state league?

I am not against what you’ve posted if you read my previous posts.

Also I believe you are correct that the Tigers played some home games at North in the TSL.

 

[Kingpin]

D

didn they play some of there home games there when they were in the state league?

1987-1997. The TCA Ground was ruled by the TANFL as an unsuitable venue in the 1970s and as part of their ground rationalisation plans (another Melbourne idea) in the early 1980s, they shunted Hobart off to KGV after the 1982 season finished.
The TANFL were attempting to make KGV the home of football at the time because the Hobart City Council wasn't spending any money on upgrades of North Hobart, presumably because the Council was cash-strapped.
Had a disastrous effect on Hobart Football Club, crowds plummeted and so did membership and on field results.

By their third year at KGV (1985), Hobart's attendances were the lowest they'd been since they started in 1945 and had taken the wooden spoon four consecutive years, also they were excluded from the initial TFL Statewide League in 1986 but the then president, Graeme Peck produced a financial statement of the club which surprisingly showed the HFC as having the best finances of any of the six
TANFL clubs at the time and they were included.

After one more year at KGV it was decided to move Hobart back to North Hobart where they played home matches until leaving the TFL at the end of 1997.
It should be noted though that the club was finding it difficult to pay rent costs and raise decent revenue even playing out of North Hobart in its final four or five years playing there, hence moving back to a dilapidated TCA when they joined the SFL.

Rent costs have been an issue at the TCA before.
The TANFL stepped in and moved Hobart to North Hobart at the end of 1953 owing to a long dispute over rent costs charged by the Hobart Greyhound Racing Club (HGRC) for use of the TCA Ground.
The club resumed playing there again in 1961.

 

[fumbler]

So I’m short, Hobart isn’t new at looking at playing elsewhere whether it’s their initiative or not.

 

[JM71]

So I’m short, Hobart isn’t new at looking at playing elsewhere whether it’s their initiative or not.

Look that may be a correct summary, but I wouldn't suggest HFC is looking to play elsewhere at present if that's what you're inferring.
Tbh I wouldn't be against playing out of North Hobart Oval but unfortunately can't see the HFC and NHFC working together.
North Hobart Oval is incredibly underused compared to the TCA
* 9 Home Games a year, OSFA/SFL finals and junior finals are about it, no cricket too worry about.

The TCA on the other hand hosts:
* Cricket - future league/carnivals, NHCC
* Footy - HFC, Dosa, Some Master Rules, Juniors, Junior Finals.

There was a lot of skulduggery in the 90s from what I've heard with North Hobart opening competing bar, etc on HFC game days and making it challenging for Hobart to generate revenue.

Similarly (and yes admittedly different administrations for both clubs) a lot of lies and shenanigans between both clubs when applying for the 'inner-city' licence in 2013. If both clubs couldn't work together then to tell AFLTAS to shove their merger idea I really couldn't see us working together to share a ground.

Just as an example, NHFC has just put in some work setting the new wing up with a huge bar, etc. As the leasee over that premises I can't see them allowing HFC to use it to generate money.

 

[Kingpin]

There was a lot of skulduggery in the 90s from what I've heard with North Hobart opening competing bar, etc on HFC game days and making it challenging for Hobart to generate revenue.

100% correct. Yes.
They also did the same thing to both Sandy Bay and later on with the Southern Cats, and sent both the latter two clubs broke and out of existence as a result.
That was extremely poor governance by the TFL that allowed that situation to happen in the first place and also from the Council for a lack of policing of it (it was their stadium).
North used to open all their bars including their clubrooms in the rear of the Horrie Gorringe Stand during all matches played at the ground whether North were playing there or playing away.
Also did the same with at least two kiosks as well.
Another little trick they used to pull was at the after game function, always held in the ground floor pavilion (now North Hobart's clubrooms), supporters and players from Hobart, Sandy Bay and or Southern Cats (depending on who's home game it was) would meet up with the opposition for drinks in there.
North Hobart's bar staff used to deliberately turn off the beer taps from upstairs in their clubrooms so everyone would either go home or be forced upstairs into North's room to drink.
I knew the head barman of the HFC at the time, Graeme Walker, used to have frequent, heated arguments with them over it.
But it was never dealt with properly.

 

[fumbler]

So if HFC are paying 16 grand for ground fees for the season or for a year?
Have the HFC approached the council as to why they are so high when at least three other organisations also use the ground or facilities?

 

[JM71]

So if HFC are paying 16 grand for ground fees for the season or for a year?
Have the HFC approached the council as to why they are so high when at least three other organisations also use the ground or facilities?

Short answer is yes.

 

[Tigerssaints]

So if HFC are paying 16 grand for ground fees for the season or for a year?
Have the HFC approached the council as to why they are so high when at least three other organisations also use the ground or facilities?
[/QUOTE
HE missed the Hobart City Band. and Cricket indoor centre
Following pressure from Cricket Tas,who i am along time member in the last 18 months ,the playing surface
has been dug up and leveled out .
HCC has a love affair with NH Oval . ( cost too much to move Plaister stand )
why Cricket went to Bellerive ,Brian Davidson told me , the north were very close to pinching Shield Cricket
At the same time about $500, 000 had been allocated from the federal govt to provide first class facilities
HCC lead by Doug Plaister and Ron Soundy, local Polly Bull Bar Bennett would Not spend the money at the TCA
Instead it went into the development of the Hockey facilities
So Clarence Council were approached , and with help of Senator Calvert Cricket had to move,
i understand the covenant for Queens Domain is to provide leisure /sport stuff for the people of Hobart

 

[Tasmanian saint]

100% correct. Yes.
They also did the same thing to both Sandy Bay and later on with the Southern Cats, and sent both the latter two clubs broke and out of existence as a result.
That was extremely poor governance by the TFL that allowed that situation to happen in the first place and also from the Council for a lack of policing of it (it was their stadium).
North used to open all their bars including their clubrooms in the rear of the Horrie Gorringe Stand during all matches played at the ground whether North were playing there or playing away.
Also did the same with at least two kiosks as well.
Another little trick they used to pull was at the after game function, always held in the ground floor pavilion (now North Hobart's clubrooms), supporters and players from Hobart, Sandy Bay and or Southern Cats (depending on who's home game it was) would meet up with the opposition for drinks in there.
North Hobart's bar staff used to deliberately turn off the beer taps from upstairs in their clubrooms so everyone would either go home or be forced upstairs into North's room to drink.
I knew the head barman of the HFC at the time, Graeme Walker, used to have frequent, heated arguments with them over it.
But it was never dealt with properly.

Didn’t realise north Hobart had control over all the facilities at the oval how come there so bad of financially themselves then ?

 

[Kingpin]

Didn’t realise north Hobart had control over all the facilities at the oval how come there so bad of financially themselves then ?

The situation spoken about there was during the 1990s.
Anecdotally (several old North lifers and ex-players told me) one of the reasons they got into such a pickle financially back in the 1990s was overspending on players and coaches, even as far back as the last years of the TANFL, (which obviously most clubs did at the time), a blowout in the budget when they built their social club at the top of the Horrie Gorringe Stand in 1991 which, as terrific a facility as it was, was a financial drain on the club the entire time they operated it.
This all happened to coincide with the state going into a long recession at the same time and the crowds also plummeting pretty sharply with overheads getting bigger by the year (which almost sunk two thirds of the clubs playing in the TFL at the time).
They were supposedly in deep financial trouble when they beat Hobart in the Grand Final in 1992, then spent the rest of the decade battling to stay afloat, at one stage having to pay their players with beer vouchers from their clubrooms which was controversial at the time.
It was a shame they lost those clubrooms as it was a terrific looking facility but the problem was it was a huge drain on club coffers even when the crowds were still going to watch TFL footy, when they dropped right away it was a money pit that was pushing them under.
AFL Tasmania took over their clubrooms around 2001/02 from memory and North moved back downstairs into the pavilion where they remain to this day.
AFL Tasmania turned the clubrooms into offices and administration with a bar for punters at the Ryde Street end of the stand called the Devils Bar (think the sign is still there!) at the time when the Devils were still playing at North Hobart before they moved to Bellerive permanently.
As to why they're still in poor financial shape, I can't answer that, I would probably tend to think it's likely a combination of a number of things.
The "Hobart City" experiment was a dismal disaster by all reports (like everyone thought it would be) and they lost a lot of money and supporters over it.
The overheads playing in the TSL are still quite prohibitive without good sponsorship or other revenue coming in as the crowds are non-existent.
As an example, Hobart lost close to $300,000 in their last four years in the TSL, for no return, before going back to a struggling SFL in 2014.
Also North had probably the best sponsorship man in the business for many years, David Omant, who more than likely kept the club afloat with his own efforts for several years, Omant's health deteriorated badly during the time of the TSL inner-city licence debacle and he unfortunately had to stand down from his role and hasn't been able to continue.
Sponsorship is getting harder to come by now, most bigger companies are controlled interstate or overseas and aren't interested in putting money into the community like they once would.
Smaller businesses are struggling quite a bit so aren't in a position to sponsor as much as they used to.
No TV airtime also a problem. Not worth a potential sponsor's time or investment, terrible crowds, no public interest. SFL suffers from the same issue.
It's quite interesting to pop onto Youtube and watch a televised TFL match from the 1980s or 1990s and take particular note of the advertising boards on the fences and structures of the grounds and note how many of those are either gone completely, controlled from outside the state or just not interested in our football any longer. Quite amazing.
It will only get more difficult.

 

[Gersman]

Any news or rumours to report gents?
Is it true Tony Gibson's chucked it in with the SFL?
They'll be knackered without him because he does about 90% of the work running the bloody thing.
No doubt Queen Selfie will still be hanging about doing 2/5s of nothing as usual.
Heard Hobart probably won't field a colts team this year due to lack of numbers.
Any other teams in the same boat?

 

[Kingpin]

Re: Tony Gibson - yes. He stood down from the SFL late last year. Will probably just concentrate on running the STJFL as he's done for several years.
The new manager of football operations for the SFL is a fellow by the name of David Manshanden.

Re: Colts - Aiming to still have a colts team up and running, James Caulfield was appointed coach about two weeks ago but numbers have been very low so far supposedly.
Not heard how any of the others are faring so far.
Been very quiet on the rumour mill over the Summer, no real news to speak of.

 

[GoldenMagpie16]

I’ve heard a couple of rumours that Brighton have approximately 70 male players at the club, however I’m unsure if they will have a colts team or not