Spida: ...the jury is still out on the brown and gold

[bricon]

Spida is not owed open arms at Hawthorn. He came to the club, when we were at our most vulnerable. He started to believe that WE needed him, more than he needed the club. His attitude and numerous incidents showed total disregard for the club.

As soon as Clarko and co, realised we had players capable to cover Spida we kicked him to the curb.

Spida needs to grow up, and when he doesn't get his way, he needs to stop jumping up and down like a little b*tch.

If a player gets away with such behaviour, then it’s the club that has the problem.

Spida has a strong personality and has had a propensity to push the boundaries of acceptable standards and team rules within a football club – these traits have been known to the football community for almost a decade and a half. Hawthorn would have been fully aware of Spida’s traits long before he joined the club and the club should have had systems in place to deal with any potential problems BEFORE they signed him up.

Sydney is quite a different environment (to Hawthorn of the past 5 years); it has a very strong and settled management and coaching group which has a proven record of not being prepared to cop sh*t from players, (eg the dropping of Nick Davis and the de-listing of Ricky Mott for breaking team rules and unprofessional conduct). Sydney has a pretty good record of handling erstwhile “troublesome” footballers and in some cases turning their careers around – the Spida exercise may blow-up in Sydney’s face, but it’s the type of club that offers the best chance of harnessing his potential.

A lot of the hand wringing by posters in this thread is laughable (questioning Spida’s football ability; questioning his “loyalty” to the club etc).
His ability is good enough to have made him a club B&F.
Hawthorn decided that he should only be offered a one year contract (as is their right) – Spida wanted a longer contract (as is his right). It was a commercial decision for both parties, neither side showed any “loyalty’ to each other.

 

[The Fireman]

the Spida exercise may blow-up in Sydney’s face, but it’s the type of club that offers the best chance of harnessing his potential.

.

how up themselves some supporter are. Hawthorn has proven to be great club in all facets long before your club was even thought of.

 

[bricon]

how up themselves some supporter are. Hawthorn has proven to be great club in all facets long before your club was even thought of.

What part of:

Hawthorn of the past 5 years

don't you understand?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I think Spida's record shows that he puts in a couple of good years before becoming slowly disenchanted/disgruntled/disconnected with his environment and teammates.

The question is - what will come first - Spida's fourth club or his retirement?

Maybe Sheedy will find a place for him......

 

[The Fireman]

What part of:



don't you understand?

what part of up yourself don't you understand?
"the type of club that offers the best chance of harnessing his potential."
what makes your club any better than Hawthorn or most others for managing his type of knobstick?

 

[The Final Word]

Still don't think he was worth a draft pick. His legs could give way at any time.

Excellent tap ruckman, but how many perform into their mid 30's, maybe he's the exception, but time will tell, and Sydney had better hope Jarryd Morton doesn't turn into a 100 game player

 

[bricon]

what makes your club any better than Hawthorn or most others for managing his type of knobstick?

A proven record of dealing with “difficult” players over the past 15 years (eg Plugger, Hall, Nick Davis) and a management/coaching regime that has shown that it won’t tolerate d*ickhead behaviour.

 

[Choota]

A talented individual in a team sport.

Will end his career with few friends.

 

[giantsully]

Seriously, after Spida belted the bejeesus out of their side the other week, I would've thought Hawks fans would just want to leave the Spida saga behind them.

 

[The Fireman]

A proven record of dealing with “difficult” players over the past 15 years (eg Plugger, Hall, Nick Davis) and a management/coaching regime that has shown that it won’t tolerate d*ickhead behaviour.

or the amount of money you pay them and the realization of what they may lose.
Your club picked them up after they had matured as players and people and offered a hell of a lot more money, which the AFL allowed you to do), if your club was to discard a d*ckhead I'm sure he would do better at the next club.
Your arrogance is unwarranted.

 

[giantsully]

or the amount of money you pay them and the realization of what they may lose.
Your club picked them up after they had matured as players and people and offered a hell of a lot more money, which the AFL allowed you to do), if your club was to discard a d*ckhead I'm sure he would do better at the next club.
Your arrogance is unwarranted.

A Saint Kilda fan lecturing the Swans about culture - Paris Hilton lecturing Mother Teresa about her chastity.

We recruit matre players because we haven't had the "luxury" of trawling the bottom of the ladder for years on end to get priority picks. For the record, players weve recruited from other teams that weren't surplus to that team's requirements? Hall, Davis (and even he wanted to come, rather than being chased). My guess is that the Saints have at least that many - Gehrig & Hamill for starters.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Actually yes, I heard quite an interesting story about Sydney when they elected Stuart Maxfield as captain - that Barry Hall thought he was a shoe-in and received few (or maybe no?) votes from his teammates. This was a wake-up call that turned Hall into an inconsitent hot head that was regularly reported into a consistent hot-head that is rarely reported.

Paul Roos and co have instilled a peer accountability down at Sydney and it does seem to keep egos in check. Will they be able to contain Spida's? My opinion is that he'll retire before any amount of unrest will surface and history will look at it as Spida's saving grace and leave him favourably remembered.

He did give the hawks a shellacking the other week -but could you imagine how out-of-place his painfully slow loping would look the way the Hawthorn team is performing now? A slow team suits the big man. Not all good players a good fit for all teams.

 

[cs61]

St Kilda and Hawthorn weren't unhappy to see him go.

You've got to ask the question, when a player is so brilliant at his best, cause at his best I doubt there were many better tap ruckman around, why the clubs felt nothing for him when he left?

Sydney supporters saying we talk negatively about him just because he left clubs are naive. Don't pretend to know Spider after half a season. There were periods he was supported at Hawthorn and played brilliantly footy. Spider turned when he rightly didn't receive the captaincy, and it all become about him from then on.

We didn't offer him a one year contract just because we didn't trust his body, we didn't trust him.

He should work out ok for Sydney, he'll only be there a small period of time, and will be focused and eager to impress, much like he was at Hawthorn from the start.

The players reactions to Spider were most interesting. Hodge, Mitchell and Crawford all getting into him. I know he got the last laugh as they won, but still for them to confront him like that showed anomisity. Rawlings, Hay, Thompson didn't receive any kind of reception from the players that Spider did.

Hawthorn don't miss him.

 

[giantsully]

Hawthorn don't miss him.

As a supporter of a club that missed out on a premiership because we lacked one good tap ruckman, I hope you don't live to regret that statement. Coz right now, Hawthorn don't have one.

 

[cs61]

As a supporter of a club that missed out on a premiership because we lacked one good tap ruckman, I hope you don't live to regret that statement. Coz right now, Hawthorn don't have one.

But we are third on the ladder. I think that has a lot to do with our team spirit, arguable that we would be in as good shape still we a disgruntled Spider. We don't miss him. Its a team sport.

Without Spider, and with two hardworking ruckman doing well in tandom. Taylor is the tap ruckman, Campbell the hard working ruckman, both still with their best footy ahead of them. Bailey and Renouf highly ranked juniors on our list still to come through. Happy with our stocks.

Very comfortable without Spider.

 

[BWST]

On a slightly different note - how much of a dud is Josh Fraser!

Good question......Of late i'd put him in the dud catogary. His first two years promised a lot. But then his potential died in the arse.

At Port Adelaide, we have two promising forwards, of different makeup. Both very promising......but could indeed end up as duds.

In our favour, they were very late picks !!

 

[giantsully]

But we are third on the ladder. I think that has a lot to do with our team spirit, arguable that we would be in as good shape still we a disgruntled Spider. We don't miss him. Its a team sport.

You have much to learn about finals footy, Grasshopper.

 

[cs61]

You have much to learn about finals footy, Grasshopper.

Really intelligent way to argue....

Should I respond with "you have much to learn about Spider"....

"Yawn"

 

[Bollox]

But we are third on the ladder. I think that has a lot to do with our team spirit, arguable that we would be in as good shape still we a disgruntled Spider. We don't miss him. Its a team sport.

Without Spider, and with two hardworking ruckman doing well in tandom. Taylor is the tap ruckman, Campbell the hard working ruckman, both still with their best footy ahead of them. Bailey and Renouf highly ranked juniors on our list still to come through. Happy with our stocks.

Very comfortable without Spider.

You say u are NOW...but its only the silly season when all that matters is generating enough wins any way u can to make finals.

Finals are an entirely different game and it is no surprise there hasnt been a flag won by a club without a well credentialed #1 ruck for donkeys yrs...in fact how often does it ever happen ?

Recently some coaches have played down the importance of ruckmen...but the fact remains that once again a premiership was won by the club with the dominant ruckman...in last yrs case by the best in the game.

Nothing beats experience and talent in finals...a mosquito fleet can take u up the ladder...they look impressive and get the fans hopes up.... but in finals it is a MASSIVE advantage to have at least one QUALITY ruck.

U say u dont miss Everitt...but if u find yourself in the 2nd week of finals u'll soon be wishing u had a quality ruckman.

 

[jazz]

You have much to learn about finals footy, Grasshopper.

I think that Clarkson knows what he's doing. He was there for the Port GF win and has been ruthless with player management and discipline (a lot of early morning runs for the boys in the first year and a half).

Spida is a very smart and talented player but there was always an unsettled air around him.

It's been good for the Hawks as Campbell & Taylor have come on this year. We need some quality ruckmen to stay with us for more than the 2 -3 years that Spida could have. They were obviously intimidated by Spida (their mentor at the club) in the Sydney game but it was a great lesson for them.

If the Hawks had have kicked straighter and not done a few dumb things (50m penalties etc.) and won the game, it would have looked like an ever better decision to let Spida go.

 

[cs61]

You say u are NOW...but its only the silly season when all that matters is generating enough wins any way u can to make finals.

No what matters is developing a list that is capable of making the top 4. Lots of factors involved, club culture one, personnel another, Clarkson seems to have done alright.

Finals are an entirely different game and it is no surprise there hasnt been a flag won by a club without a well credentialed #1 ruck for donkeys yrs...in fact how often does it ever happen ?

Keating wasn't a gun. But was a solid ruckman. Our two ruckman Campbell and Taylor have been doing well working as a team. You need two who can compete, not just one, that's the key. Both are 23/24... so natural improvement would be expected.

Recently some coaches have played down the importance of ruckmen...but the fact remains that once again a premiership was won by the club with the dominant ruckman...in last yrs case by the best in the game.

Clarkson rates ruckman highly. Probably why we've drafted two other highly rated ones in Bailey and Renouf in recent times. He's studied premiership lists and decided you need one tap ruckman (Taylor, Bailey) and one hardworking ruckman (Campbell, Renouf). He's stated this before.

Nothing beats experience and talent in finals...a mosquito fleet can take u up the ladder...they look impressive and get the fans hopes up.... but in finals it is a MASSIVE advantage to have at least one QUALITY ruck.

U say u dont miss Everitt...but if u find yourself in the 2nd week of finals u'll soon be wishing u had a quality ruckman.

I'd love to have an A grade ruckman, Cox would be fantastic.

But I wouldn't want Everitt.

I've stated my reasons for why don't miss Everitt. I stand by them.

Just because tap ruckman are very important for a side, doesn't mean that Everitt is important to us.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

As a generalisation, I've found that many Sydney supporters can't understand why Hawthorn was prepared to let Everitt go, but let's just say that the development of our current ruckmen has been fast-tracked by his departure.

Sydney are happy with him. Hawthorn's happy without him.

Let's leave it at that.

 

[The Fireman]

A Saint Kilda fan lecturing the Swans about culture - Paris Hilton lecturing Mother Teresa about her chastity.

We recruit matre players because we haven't had the "luxury" of trawling the bottom of the ladder for years on end to get priority picks. For the record, players weve recruited from other teams that weren't surplus to that team's requirements? Hall, Davis (and even he wanted to come, rather than being chased). My guess is that the Saints have at least that many - Gehrig & Hamill for starters.

who is lecturing anything??? I'm simply stating an opinion, is that a bit hard for you to understand?
You foreign legion is made up of players chasing the big bucks. Accept that and stop trying to lecture other clubs on how to manage their players you arrogant johnny come latelys.

 

[The Fireman]

As a generalisation, I've found that many Sydney supporters can't understand why Hawthorn was prepared to let Everitt go, but let's just say that the development of our current ruckmen has been fast-tracked by his departure.

Sydney are happy with him. Hawthorn's happy without him.

Let's leave it at that.

They are still trying to understand the concept of AFL fullstop.

 

[SMFC]

They are still trying to understand the concept of AFL fullstop.

Speaking of generalisations....