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Sep 4, 2014
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What is the bigger difference in talent in this years draft?
1-4 or 19-22 (this could drop down a couple of spots)? A Garner type falling to our second be a bigger difference to a pretty even top 4?
 

Kimbo

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Since 2000 the only number 1 draft picks with premierships are Tom Boyd and Luke Hodge.
Winning culture is way more important than the difference between pick 1 and 4.
You think if we lose our next two matches, even if the team does the best it can, our team culture is affected?
 

Arathrawn

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Nov 14, 2013
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You think if we lose our next two matches, even if the team does the best it can, our team culture is affected?
Its about preparing to win. If any of our players get a hint from coaching staff that we are trying to lose, yes i think that affects our culture. Our coaches should always be demanding the best and pushing for higher standards. If we take the foot off the pedal and go in half assed it puts a seed of doubt in the players mind and gives them an excuse to not give their best.

How can coaches demand the best from players when players know that the coaches are tanking? I think it erodes trust and faith between coaches and players.
 

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May 28, 2013
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What is the bigger difference in talent in this years draft?
1-4 or 19-22 (this could drop down a couple of spots)? A Garner type falling to our second be a bigger difference to a pretty even top 4?
Raynor at 1 and Allen at 19. It's a great start for a rebuild with Thomas next year and another top end pick. Next years top 3 would neatly go top 10 this year. A few look special in 2018.
 

shimaburnsgrieg

Premiership Player
Apr 1, 2017
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Alot of strange thinking coming into this thread.

As a club we have bemoaned the lack of high quality picks ...in fact from the President down we have said our middling finishes over the past decade have deprived us of top end talent and hence have contributed to our inability to get to the last Saturday in September. We have felt 'scared' about bottoming out as we may not withstand the drop in member numbers.

Through injury/retirements etc we now find ourselves where we can/will have access to high level picks - the only question is how high.

We are balls deep into a couple of high level signings where the potential threat of pick 1 can be used to help engineer outcomes our way (recognising that it is rarely used).

The thinking that we should be busting a gut to win our next 2 games because if we don't this may somehow jeopardise the winning culture of the club is about the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

We find ourselves with a great opportunity to reinvigorate the club with injection of talent across the board - and we need it badly.

We need to maximise our chances of doing that and that means not winning either of the next 2 games.
 

Kimbo

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Its about preparing to win. If any of our players get a hint from coaching staff that we are trying to lose, yes i think that affects our culture. Our coaches should always be demanding the best and pushing for higher standards. If we take the foot off the pedal and go in half assed it puts a seed of doubt in the players mind and gives them an excuse to not give their best.

How can coaches demand the best from players when players know that the coaches are tanking? I think it erodes trust and faith between coaches and players.
Are you suggesting our coaches are tanking?

I think it's pretty clear, from what's been said, that this year isn't about W/L, but about development. Development has been prioritised - and also forced due to injuries - and from that point, the coaches are doing what they can to ensure competitiveness, balanced with learning.
 

Arathrawn

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Nov 14, 2013
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Are you suggesting our coaches are tanking?

I think it's pretty clear, from what's been said, that this year isn't about W/L, but about development. Development has been prioritised - and also forced due to injuries - and from that point, the coaches are doing what they can to ensure competitiveness, balanced with learning.
No please dont misunderstand what im saying. Im just giving my 2 cents and replying to those who think we should be. Yes development/education has been and needed to be the priority for this year. I dont think we should tank and i dont think the coaches will, now its probably vital for the coaches to drum that competitive message into our players, never give a player even a hint that we dont want their best. Driving for the win is the best way to do that.
 

Skiparoo

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Apr 21, 2016
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Raynor at 1 and Allen at 19. It's a great start for a rebuild with Thomas next year and another top end pick. Next years top 3 would neatly go top 10 this year. A few look special in 2018.

Yep, which why I want Kelly to resign with GWS for 2 years, and we get him across then, so we can get access to these quality players we deseperately need.
 

naturally north

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Times were much ******* simpler when we finished bloody ninth and we call all say," we're the best side out of the eight". That got me through many long pre-seasons. And the fact that the slider we recruited is ok but can't kick very well. Or is prone to putting on weight. Or has no tank. And we then get to pick apart his career for the next ten years.

Am not liking the idea of nabbing the best talent available, sounds counterproductive.
 

Ben B 96

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Apr 28, 2016
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What is the bigger difference in talent in this years draft?
1-4 or 19-22 (this could drop down a couple of spots)? A Garner type falling to our second be a bigger difference to a pretty even top 4?
Could make a big difference 19-22.
 

Ben B 96

Cancelled
Apr 28, 2016
660
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Alot of strange thinking coming into this thread.

As a club we have bemoaned the lack of high quality picks ...in fact from the President down we have said our middling finishes over the past decade have deprived us of top end talent and hence have contributed to our inability to get to the last Saturday in September. We have felt 'scared' about bottoming out as we may not withstand the drop in member numbers.

Through injury/retirements etc we now find ourselves where we can/will have access to high level picks - the only question is how high.

We are balls deep into a couple of high level signings where the potential threat of pick 1 can be used to help engineer outcomes our way (recognising that it is rarely used).

The thinking that we should be busting a gut to win our next 2 games because if we don't this may somehow jeopardise the winning culture of the club is about the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

We find ourselves with a great opportunity to reinvigorate the club with injection of talent across the board - and we need it badly.

We need to maximise our chances of doing that and that means not winning either of the next 2 games.
I want a shot at a flag and pick 1 gives us a shot at building from the bottom up with good talent,most premiership sides have done this so we must not be scared to bottom out properly.edit, from what I've seen of us and lions today it won't matter if we try next week or not as the lions are showing a lot more talent and fight than us and will beat us even if we do have a dip.
 
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Rad Roo

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Aug 2, 2017
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it's not so much about tanking about securing enough high end young talents for a proper premiership tilt. Our 2007-2016 was never in any realistic chance, 2015 could have been a change had wells being fit and fire and that was only big if. we have never been able to get a group of highly talented youngsters the way st Kilda, bulldogs, hawthorn as they have spent extended period of times down the bottom. Think of a sin graph with high amplitude, so if the trough is really deep and the peak is very high. We have never gotten so low for an extended period of time because we have membership pressure of not performing too poorly where the other clubs did not have such issue back in the early 2000s. Now we are a bit more secured now so we are not afraid of a couple of 'development' years. Club is more professional now as performing poorly isn't end of the world. Supporters r more matured and aware that good great things to happen, bad s**t has to happen.
 

SonofSamsquanch

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Mar 31, 2016
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We have it in the bag sadly we will finish last few players are not going to play next week

Whatever happens will be largely out of this team's control. North don't look to be capable of beating anybody at the moment - including the bears. I still hope that North can hammer them in the last round and create some belief. On form, that's a bit wishful though.

Horror run with injuries is a big part of it. Getting the best team on the park in 2018, regardless of who is recruited will be important.
 
Oct 16, 2004
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It will be deserved too.

Clearly playing the worst football in the AFL now and the spoon will be wholly deserved. I don't think we're tanking. We're rubbish. And unless some serious top-end ready-to-go talent wanders into the team and into the coaches box, be ready for more spoons in the next couple of years.
 

hcd199

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Apr 29, 2009
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Times were much ******* simpler when we finished bloody ninth and we call all say," we're the best side out of the eight". That got me through many long pre-seasons. And the fact that the slider we recruited is ok but can't kick very well. Or is prone to putting on weight. Or has no tank. And we then get to pick apart his career for the next ten years.

Am not liking the idea of nabbing the best talent available, sounds counterproductive.

But no-one will pick apart the career of our #1 pick, because he'll be perfect in every way? No-one will ever be dismayed if we do get Kelly and/or Martin but then don't immediately see drastic improvements? No-one will heap undue pressure on academy recruits like Tarryn Thomas because they've built up an unattainable fantasy in their heads where he's an infallible gun?

Nobody wants us to be mediocre. The problem is this daft idea that the key to becoming better is to be substantially worse, which is apparently so assured that our failures are worth celebrating.

Alot of strange thinking coming into this thread.

As a club we have bemoaned the lack of high quality picks ...in fact from the President down we have said our middling finishes over the past decade have deprived us of top end talent and hence have contributed to our inability to get to the last Saturday in September. We have felt 'scared' about bottoming out as we may not withstand the drop in member numbers.

Through injury/retirements etc we now find ourselves where we can/will have access to high level picks - the only question is how high.

We are balls deep into a couple of high level signings where the potential threat of pick 1 can be used to help engineer outcomes our way (recognising that it is rarely used).

The thinking that we should be busting a gut to win our next 2 games because if we don't this may somehow jeopardise the winning culture of the club is about the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

We find ourselves with a great opportunity to reinvigorate the club with injection of talent across the board - and we need it badly.

We need to maximise our chances of doing that and that means not winning either of the next 2 games.

I want a shot at a flag and pick 1 gives us a shot at building from the bottom up with good talent,most premiership sides have done this so we must not be scared to bottom out properly.edit, from what I've seen of us and lions today it won't matter if we try next week or not as the lions are showing a lot more talent and fight than us and will beat us even if we do have a dip.

"Top end talent" being crucial to success has always been a furphy. The last time a team won a flag within a decade of winning the spoon was Brisbane in 2003 (and by then their #1 pick from 1998 wasn't even at the club), and Sydney's 2012 side had five rookie picks and only one top ten pick (the normal number of top ten picks for flag sides in recent times is roughly as many as we have presently on our list - five or so).

We maximise nothing by falling further down the ladder apart from a slightly greater chance at picking a slightly better player, or else getting slightly more leverage in trade negotiations if a number of hypothetical preconditions are met (the player wants to leave, specifically wants to come to us, and wants that so badly as to make the prospect of going through the draft a real possibility). If these infinitesimal off-season advantages mean more to you than watching your side win games of football and thus directly developing the team-wide attributes necessary for consistent winning performances... well, like I've been saying, it's genuinely delusional thinking; none of the ideas that motivate it check out in reality.
 

roo blitz

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Mar 4, 2007
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Tell ya what in a month or so when its draft day all we will be concerned about is the number 1 pick. Why worry about another loss which doesn't mean much in the direction we want to go in the future. We will all be excited to have that number 1 pick on the day. Injuries and 5 close losses caused us to finish bottom otherwise we would have been around 12th which would have not been great. If no 1 pick gets Kelly I'm happy
 

Cool Kangas

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 2, 2010
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Alot of strange thinking coming into this thread.

As a club we have bemoaned the lack of high quality picks ...in fact from the President down we have said our middling finishes over the past decade have deprived us of top end talent and hence have contributed to our inability to get to the last Saturday in September. We have felt 'scared' about bottoming out as we may not withstand the drop in member numbers.

Through injury/retirements etc we now find ourselves where we can/will have access to high level picks - the only question is how high.

We are balls deep into a couple of high level signings where the potential threat of pick 1 can be used to help engineer outcomes our way (recognising that it is rarely used).

The thinking that we should be busting a gut to win our next 2 games because if we don't this may somehow jeopardise the winning culture of the club is about the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

We find ourselves with a great opportunity to reinvigorate the club with injection of talent across the board - and we need it badly.

We need to maximise our chances of doing that and that means not winning either of the next 2 games.
I think the spoon is now ours. At least North will win something this year (jokes :) ). Just a reminder to you all that we're still the best club in the league no matter what :thumbsu:
 

naturally north

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But no-one will pick apart the career of our #1 pick, because he'll be perfect in every way? No-one will ever be dismayed if we do get Kelly and/or Martin but then don't immediately see drastic improvements? No-one will heap undue pressure on academy recruits like Tarryn Thomas because they've built up an unattainable fantasy in their heads where he's an infallible gun?

Nobody wants us to be mediocre. The problem is this daft idea that the key to becoming better is to be substantially worse, which is apparently so assured that our failures are worth celebrating.





"Top end talent" being crucial to success has always been a furphy. The last time a team won a flag within a decade of winning the spoon was Brisbane in 2003 (and by then their #1 pick from 1998 wasn't even at the club), and Sydney's 2012 side had five rookie picks and only one top ten pick (the normal number of top ten picks for flag sides in recent times is roughly as many as we have presently on our list - five or so).

We maximise nothing by falling further down the ladder apart from a slightly greater chance at picking a slightly better player, or else getting slightly more leverage in trade negotiations if a number of hypothetical preconditions are met (the player wants to leave, specifically wants to come to us, and wants that so badly as to make the prospect of going through the draft a real possibility). If these infinitesimal off-season advantages mean more to you than watching your side win games of football and thus directly developing the team-wide attributes necessary for consistent winning performances... well, like I've been saying, it's genuinely delusional thinking; none of the ideas that motivate it check out in reality.


I appreciate the effort you have gone to in replying......


But no
 
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