Analysis Sports Psychology

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FireKrakouer

Is now a leftie
Jul 5, 2011
12,849
18,904
AFL Club
Collingwood
I frequently hear our team being referred to as "mentally weak". So many on our list seem to play on confidence, then drop their head when something goes wrong. We have multiple forwards who miss shots on goal from less than 20m out. We have multiple defenders who hit up opposition players lace out in our defensive 50. We are a young side, but it isn't just the young players shitting themselves on a regular basis.

Another issue: there is no doubt that "momentum" is a huge thing in aussie rules; it's amazing how one goal can lead to another, then another... likewise, one goal leaked to the opposition can quickly multiply into several more. Why is "momentum" a thing? Why can't the players just play as if they have the momentum, even if the opposition have kicked the last two goals? Can't they talk to themselves positively and "fake it until they make it"?

I recall reading that Cloke was working with a sports psychologist. I saw him say in an interview that he had started using meditation and imagery when lining up for a set shot. Whatever he has tried, I think it has failed thus far. Seeing him miss from 4m out in that VFL game, then flinch when the ball came at him last week, I feel it's safe to say he isn't in a great place psychologically with his footy this year.

I found a link to the article: http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ist-for-goalkicking-help-20150421-1mpwke.html

I was wondering if anyone knew what program we have in place in terms of sports psychology? Does the entire team get spoken to by an experienced sports psychologist? Are they doing a good enough job, or should they be under pressure along with our fitness and coaching staff?

I'm not suggesting this one aspect of our club is the answer to all our woes, but being a large and wealthy club, we can surely expect that we are striving for excellence from every angle?

I wonder if there are some gun psychologists from American footy that we could poach, who could teach our list to create their own momentum and confidence, how to calmly nail the easy set shots that so many of them miss, how to give the 100% effort that our game plan demands, how to believe that they are capable of being winners again.

Interested in people's thoughts.
 

mattys123

Hall of Famer
Mar 24, 2008
31,426
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Melbourne
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Collingwood
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Do we even have a sports psychologist on staff?

Looking at this list we don't.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/staff

Staggering if we don't, maybe another shortcut that is being made so we don't pay the AFL's footy department tax.

PAY THE TAX, JUST PAY IT, then spend as much as we can afford on the one area that matters, the bloody football department.
 

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FireKrakouer

Is now a leftie
Jul 5, 2011
12,849
18,904
AFL Club
Collingwood
Do we even have a sports psychologist on staff?

Looking at this list we don't.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/staff

Staggering if we don't, maybe another shortcut that is being made so we don't pay the AFL's footy department tax.

PAY THE TAX, JUST PAY IT, then spend as much as we can afford on the one area that matters, the bloody football department.
Agreed. Why are we so stingey about paying the tax? We stand to lose much more money by becoming a rabble and having fans and sponsors drop off.

Ruck coach and psychologist. Get it done Ed.

Edit, just checked hawthorn's page and surprise surprise, they have both.
 

mattys123

Hall of Famer
Mar 24, 2008
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Agreed. Why are we so stingey about paying the tax? We stand to lose much more money by becoming a rabble and having fans and sponsors drop off.

Ruck coach and psychologist. Get it done Ed.
Eddie didn't want to pay the tax out of principle. He didn't want to give money to the lesser clubs. He lost mind of his role and the clubs sole responsibility though which is to make us better. Not take a stand that hurts us.

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TradeDraft

Premium Platinum
Oct 18, 2009
141,362
67,314
Mornington Peninsula
AFL Club
Collingwood
Do we even have a sports psychologist on staff?

Looking at this list we don't.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/staff

Staggering if we don't, maybe another shortcut that is being made so we don't pay the AFL's footy department tax.

PAY THE TAX, JUST PAY IT, then spend as much as we can afford on the one area that matters, the bloody football department.
Club more Concerned with the Netball and Womens Team
 

TradeDraft

Premium Platinum
Oct 18, 2009
141,362
67,314
Mornington Peninsula
AFL Club
Collingwood
Eddie didn't want to pay the tax out of principle. He didn't want to give money to the lesser clubs. He lost mind of his role and the clubs sole responsibility though which is to make us better. Not take a stand that hurts us.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Yep and Another Reason why he job as President it not that Safe
 

FireKrakouer

Is now a leftie
Jul 5, 2011
12,849
18,904
AFL Club
Collingwood
Eddie didn't want to pay the tax out of principle. He didn't want to give money to the lesser clubs. He lost mind of his role and the clubs sole responsibility though which is to make us better. Not take a stand that hurts us.

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Ridiculous by Eddie. I support him as our president, but surely he can see that his refusal to support the minnows could now turn us into one. What's the point of sitting on a pile of money and not using it. I hope we have learned from this.
 

SnakePlisskin

Club Legend
Mar 3, 2012
2,351
2,088
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Eddie didn't want to pay the tax out of principle. He didn't want to give money to the lesser clubs. He lost mind of his role and the clubs sole responsibility though which is to make us better. Not take a stand that hurts us.

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Do you know if any other club pays this tax?
 

MagpieBat

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 22, 2011
10,792
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Collingwood VFL, #TeamBatman
Eddie didn't want to pay the tax out of principle. He didn't want to give money to the lesser clubs. He lost mind of his role and the clubs sole responsibility though which is to make us better. Not take a stand that hurts us.

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Don't worry, we've got Trevor Hendy...
 

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76woodenspooners

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2011
19,409
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Sydney
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Eddie didn't want to pay the tax out of principle. He didn't want to give money to the lesser clubs. He lost mind of his role and the clubs sole responsibility though which is to make us better. Not take a stand that hurts us.
Not true, not true at all.

Ed didn't want to pay the tax because a significant portion of the membership made it very clear to him at an AGM that they don't want a cent of their hard earned membership dues wasted on propping up other footy clubs. And if the club does that, they'll walk. Some of these folks vote in the board, so he pays attention.

Now Collingwood IS paying the tax (last I looked) ... But they have made noises about trying to rein it in, but not sure how serious they are about it.

IIRC we have amongst the highest footy department spends in the industry ... And what good is it doing us? Sometimes (often) throwing money at a problem is not the right answer.
 
Last edited:

The Royal Sampler

Floreat Pica, b*tch!
Nov 26, 2006
30,540
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Another issue: there is no doubt that "momentum" is a huge thing in aussie rules; it's amazing how one goal can lead to another, then another... likewise, one goal leaked to the opposition can quickly multiply into several more. Why is "momentum" a thing? Why can't the players just play as if they have the momentum, even if the opposition have kicked the last two goals? Can't they talk to themselves positively and "fake it until they make it"?
Momentum isn't just a big thing in Aussie Rules, it's a big thing in all professional sports, even tennis with its bizarro scoring system. However you might be surprised to learn that in many situations playing as though you are trying not to lose is more effective than playing to win.

I recall reading that Cloke was working with a sports psychologist. I saw him say in an interview that he had started using meditation and imagery when lining up for a set shot. Whatever he has tried, I think it has failed thus far. Seeing him miss from 4m out in that VFL game, then flinch when the ball came at him last week, I feel it's safe to say he isn't in a great place psychologically with his footy this year.
Cloke also has technique issues which affect him more than what's going on in his head.

I wonder if there are some gun psychologists from American footy that we could poach, who could teach our list to create their own momentum and confidence, how to calmly nail the easy set shots that so many of them miss, how to give the 100% effort that our game plan demands, how to believe that they are capable of being winners again.
Why American Football? Believe me; there are plenty of American Football players and franchises who play like there should be Benny Hill music on in the background. American psychologists have no rational reason to be any better than Aussie psychs.
 

mattys123

Hall of Famer
Mar 24, 2008
31,426
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LAK, NUFC, SAS, SFGiants, 49ers,
Not true, not true at all.

Ed didn't want to pay the tax because a significant portion of the membership made it very clear to him at an AGM that they don't want a cent of their hard earned membership dues wasted on propping up other footy clubs. And if the club does that, they'll walk. Some of these people are folks who vote in the Ed and the board, so he pays attention.

Now Collingwood IS paying the tax (last I looked) ... But they have made noises about trying to rein it in, but not sure how serious they are about it.

IIRC we have amongst the highest footy department spends in the industry ... And what good is it doing us? Sometimes (often) throwing money at a problem is not the right answer.
OK I'll take your word on the motive behind not paying the tax. I was just going on what Eddie has said publicly about why we aren't paying the footy dept cap tax. We are paying a blockbuster tax of sort this year but not the footy dept tax that is what Ed has said publicly also.

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FireKrakouer

Is now a leftie
Jul 5, 2011
12,849
18,904
AFL Club
Collingwood
Momentum isn't just a big thing in Aussie Rules, it's a big thing in all professional sports, even tennis with its bizarro scoring system. However you might be surprised to learn that in many situations playing as though you are trying not to lose is more effective than playing to win.


Cloke also has technique issues which affect him more than what's going on in his head.


Why American Football? Believe me; there are plenty of American Football players and franchises who play like there should be Benny Hill music on in the background. American psychologists have no rational reason to be any better than Aussie psychs.
That article was interesting. I still believe that our team plays better when they are flying and have confidence, rather than when the pressure is on and they tend to panic.

With Cloke, I believe that when he uses poor technique it is because of what's going on in his head. Why is he more likely to miss from 20m than from 40m? IMO, a guy playing as long as he has knows how to kick just fine, it's the pressure he's under that causes him to fail. Just my opinion though, I have no way of knowing.

The American Footy thing was just a suggestion, as it is a huge sport with a lot of money being thrown around so I thought it could be a place to look. I don't really give a damn whether our psych staff come from Australia, America, Madagascar, wherever. I just want us to get one, and get the best possible.
 

CFC2010

Cancelled
Aug 22, 2014
19,470
34,432
AFL Club
Collingwood
That article was interesting. I still believe that our team plays better when they are flying and have confidence, rather than when the pressure is on and they tend to panic.

With Cloke, I believe that when he uses poor technique it is because of what's going on in his head. Why is he more likely to miss from 20m than from 40m? IMO, a guy playing as long as he has knows how to kick just fine, it's the pressure he's under that causes him to fail. Just my opinion though, I have no way of knowing.

The American Footy thing was just a suggestion, as it is a huge sport with a lot of money being thrown around so I thought it could be a place to look. I don't really give a damn whether our psych staff come from Australia, America, Madagascar, wherever. I just want us to get one, and get the best possible.
If we can't play well when the pressure is on (e.g Jesse White) then we might as give it away...........I know its been a while but finals footy is all about pressure. We had no problem back then!

Too many excuses for an inept Club at the moment.
 

Big Bryza

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 11, 2006
10,687
11,972
MCG
AFL Club
Collingwood
Staggering if we don't actually have a Sport Psych on staff.

Sport/Footy is mostly above the shoulders, I find it quite strange if there's no type of support in this area for our boys at the elite level.
 

Markfs

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2008
15,863
12,198
Fremantle
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Margot Robbie's Shaving Team...
I frequently hear our team being referred to as "mentally weak". So many on our list seem to play on confidence, then drop their head when something goes wrong. We have multiple forwards who miss shots on goal from less than 20m out. We have multiple defenders who hit up opposition players lace out in our defensive 50. We are a young side, but it isn't just the young players shitting themselves on a regular basis.

Another issue: there is no doubt that "momentum" is a huge thing in aussie rules; it's amazing how one goal can lead to another, then another... likewise, one goal leaked to the opposition can quickly multiply into several more. Why is "momentum" a thing? Why can't the players just play as if they have the momentum, even if the opposition have kicked the last two goals? Can't they talk to themselves positively and "fake it until they make it"?

I recall reading that Cloke was working with a sports psychologist. I saw him say in an interview that he had started using meditation and imagery when lining up for a set shot. Whatever he has tried, I think it has failed thus far. Seeing him miss from 4m out in that VFL game, then flinch when the ball came at him last week, I feel it's safe to say he isn't in a great place psychologically with his footy this year.

I found a link to the article: http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ist-for-goalkicking-help-20150421-1mpwke.html

I was wondering if anyone knew what program we have in place in terms of sports psychology? Does the entire team get spoken to by an experienced sports psychologist? Are they doing a good enough job, or should they be under pressure along with our fitness and coaching staff?

I'm not suggesting this one aspect of our club is the answer to all our woes, but being a large and wealthy club, we can surely expect that we are striving for excellence from every angle?

I wonder if there are some gun psychologists from American footy that we could poach, who could teach our list to create their own momentum and confidence, how to calmly nail the easy set shots that so many of them miss, how to give the 100% effort that our game plan demands, how to believe that they are capable of being winners again.

Interested in people's thoughts.
You talk as if American sport can provide the answers that Australians can't. I saw the results of the NBA finals. One game golden state wins at home by 20 points or something and then they go to the cavaliers home base and get beaten by 20 points or something.....same wooden boards, exactly the same height on the ring, the exact same court dimensions, probably the same referees, but these guys who are paid 10 million bucks to getting dressed for a game, can't take it when the opposition team's fans dont cheer them. If american psychs knew the answers then they would be making more than the players....
 

FireKrakouer

Is now a leftie
Jul 5, 2011
12,849
18,904
AFL Club
Collingwood
You talk as if American sport can provide the answers that Australians can't. I saw the results of the NBA finals. One game golden state wins at home by 20 points or something and then they go to the cavaliers home base and get beaten by 20 points or something.....same wooden boards, exactly the same height on the ring, the exact same court dimensions, probably the same referees, but these guys who are paid 10 million bucks to getting dressed for a game, can't take it when the opposition team's fans dont cheer them. If american psychs knew the answers then they would be making more than the players....
Check the post I made above. It was just a suggestion, IDGAF where they come from, just hope we get the best available.

Let's poach hawthorn's psychologist (and ruck coach)  :thumbsu:
 

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