Running/Fitness Sprinting

Discussion in 'Health, Fitness, Training and Nutrition' started by Aeglos, Sep 20, 2017.

Put it out there
  1. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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    It crops up here and there in other threads but there's not really any one place that discusses solely sprinting/running speed (if I've done goofed up feel free to merge).

    Otherwise, let this be a thread for (evidence based) discussion on all things sprinting and how to improve acceleration and top end speed.

    Current things known to improve sprinting performance over shorter (<40m) distances that are more effective than "just sprinting"
    - Sprints with a heavy sled (~80% bodyweight)
    - Sprints with a lighter sled (sub 50% bodyweight)
    - sprinting on a slight gradient (~5 degrees, combined decline and incline is more effective than one or the other)

    Other factors that dictate/influence speed
    - hip extension speed/strength
    - knee flexion strength
    - hip flexor strength
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 11:58 AM
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  2. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    My training is based around speed more then anything else...not a full sprint program but close to as I'm still playing footy so I have to do certain things for that (armour etc)
     
  3. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    I can't believe there's a million replies in the "things that irritate you..." thread but only 1 here but here are some things I'll be doing for sprinting during this off-season:

    Isometrics
    - Iso Holds
    - Iso Pushes
    - Quasi Iso - Iso Switches
    - Iso Catches

    Sled Sprints
    - Based off force-velocity profiling

    Triphasic Training
    - Eccentric
    - Supramax iso's
    - Strength Speed/Speed Strength
    - Timed Velocity Sets

    Fast Twitch Repeat Speed
    - High Intensity Continuous Training
    - High Velocity Potentiation Clusters

    Best Times from last year are:

    20m Sprint - 3.06secs
    35m Sprint - 4.33secs
    Fly 10m Sprint - .96secs
    Fly 20m Sprint - 2.02secs
     
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  4. mcgarnacle

    mcgarnacle Norm Smith Medallist

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    i'm running masters 400m this summer. It's been many years (my teens basically) since I've trained for the event....worst track event to participate in, but hey I love the pain. I am also L2 AA accredited. more about pure speed and endurance and probably a little different to the sport speed sprinting you guys are discussing. nonetheless, it's still considered sprinting.

    re sleds, i don't see value in 'heavy'. 20% of body weight is enough. you still want to develop power and heavier than that changes the dynamic from power to strength. if that's what you're after, then by all means do heavier sleds, but it may not necessarily help you sprint faster. technique generally goes out the window and you can get a similar effect from hill sprints

    as the 400s are the event im specifically training for, there are several facets/energy systems that need to be worked on:

    accelerations and block starts - mainly done straight in the range up to 30m early in prep, and extending to bend work where the 400 starts and the acceleration phase of the run is done - 50 to 80m. there are different strategies to run the 400 but generally, you accelerate hard for 50 and then float to 200m so the 50 to 80m portion of block starts replicates this. generally 3-5' between efforts.

    max velocity - flying 30s (with a 30m acceleration zone) early in prep, in-out-ins where you run hard for 10-15, float for 10-15, run hard for 10-15, and then some longer work too which may be hitting on speed endurance. 3-5' between efforts.

    speed endurance. 80-150m work @90-100%. rest between efforts extends to 6-10'.

    special endurance 1. 150-300m work @90-100%. starting to get nasty here. longer breaks again, about 8-12'. may get the 300 with 150 + 150 with a 30" break in between.

    special endurance 2. 300-600m. ******* awful. like all the above, these are run at 90-95 or 95-100%. would generally get the 600m by running 300m + 300m with a 30" rest in between. rest is between 15-20'. if not close to puking, you basically are in these sessions. wouldn't run anymore than 3 of these and that's perhaps a big if. end of the day, it's quality at high intensity. if that third effort is going to be considerably worse than the 2nd, then the value isn't there.

    need to do aerobic work too and these are predominantly done early in prep and thrown in at various times as the prep continues. 20-30 min continuous runs -> fartleks -> extensive tempos which would be run at 70-79% and can consist of 100m x 10 with 30" rest between reps and 3-4' between sets, for 3 sets. intensive tempo increases the pace to about 80-85% and can consist of 5x 200m with 3' rests.

    don't forget the importance of technique drills and plyos
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 12:36 PM
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  5. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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    You can’t really argue with the science (which for once lines up with anecdotal evidence) that heavier loads is still highly effective.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26439786

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23539079

    https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/sports/sprinting/#4
     
  6. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    Jesus Garn go for something easier - the 400 IS.THE.WORST

    Although you can use a variety of sled loads, and it can be dependent on training age, force/velocity profile etc I'm probably in the heavy sled camp as well

    Shonky technique can be true with sleds but I'd say that's more a product of how sleds and prowler are mostly used these days - conditioning resulting in a lot of the work being done under fatigue

    Hills can work similarly but you can't quantify or alter hills like you can sled loads/speeds

    The 400 is all about speed reserve so the faster you are over 80m the faster your race will be

    I wouldn't think you'd need to do too much work past 300 - 350m as you can't really get faster under those final moment conditions, you need to have been able to handle fatigue prior to that point

    Don't forget about trying to raise your anaerobic threshold which will allow you to run at a faster rate for longer before fatigue sets in
     
  7. mcgarnacle

    mcgarnacle Norm Smith Medallist

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    yeah, basic biomechanics principles will support this with the ground reaction forces required, particularly in the acceleration and drive phases. the more force you can put into the ground, the faster you're going to be. and let's face it, this is what you need for 'sport speed' where you'll rarely run more than 40m in any sprint. top track coaches trying to achieve higher top end tend to shy away from too much heavy sled work and i'm not sure how much of the peer-reviewed material focused on actual sprinters or this attribute rather than merely active participants and shorter distances. this is why I think many coaches in any field tend to have a 'but' in their reasoning for methods when research will offer an alternative argument.
     
  8. DemonTim

    DemonTim Brownlow Medallist

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    This is something I've never worked on but I really want to improve for footy next year so going to have a bit of focus on sprint training this off season (I've found my take offs/short distance speed are slow for how I play)

    Thread is very good :thumbsu:
     
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  9. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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    There was a study I found on National level Norwegian track athletes but there wasn’t anything conclusive either way.
    As with most research as well, I think it’s far better at ruling out methods or techniques than it is at ruling them in.
     
  10. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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  11. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    Full Back are ya? So really all you need is to be very fast (sprint training) and be able to recover fully btw needing to be very fast (aerobic capacity) which makes your training pretty simple to set up
     

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  12. DemonTim

    DemonTim Brownlow Medallist

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    It's where I prefer. But I'm off to a new club so who knows. Hoping it's full back
    It's hard because old coaches wanted me to ruck despite me being garbage at it
     
  13. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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    Plyos/ballistic training will help ROF eg squat jumps before squats or hang jump shrugs before deads
    IMO loaded wide stance or lateral movement training is also under utilised for 360 degreee athletes
     
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  14. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    So ruck would be different as you're better off having solid aerobic capacity to make contest after contest and body strength for duels...any ida on your nw club yet? same league or a complete move?
     
  15. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    Because speed is NEVER trained in local footballers I'd have him go straight to specific work to learn the art of acceleration/sprinting etc as coordination is huge to be able to maintain efficiency in a game where fatigue has an effect on output

    Obviously held gym at the same time though where the above is an option
     
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  16. DemonTim

    DemonTim Brownlow Medallist

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    Legend!

    Yeah which makes it hard. First year at powelly was ruck. Then back for a season and a half. Then ruck.

    Yeah just following my best mate to shitty vafa footy. Know a few blokes there and I just wanna play footy without the bloody politics
     
  17. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    you can never be too fast anyway and it has far other implications then just speed (decrease injury risk, usage of htmu's etc, cns etc)
     
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  18. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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    I’m not sold on specific sprint drills as they’re not overly specific to how you’re likely to take off in a match.
    If he can he’d be better off grabbing a couple of mates and going down to the park and playing marks up with designated forwards/defenders.
    Failing that; reactionary take off drills

    Provided YG give me $$$ for at least 1 power rack and a couple of bars the program I was going to run for the guys I’d be working with was
    1) FIFA 11 warm up (I’d made a few modifications and the whole squad would do this together before splitting off into either on field training or with me in the gym)
    2) BB squat jump or BB hang jump
    3) BB box squat or BB standing row
    4) BB good morning or BB stiff leg sumo deadlift
    5) Nordic hamstring curls (these would be done by everyone at the end of the training session)
    I’d allocated 10 minutes (I’d like longer but I don’t think that’s going to happen lol) to each and was going to let the guys train upper body at their own gyms as they desired. With this set up I could have 1-2 groups working in the rack and 1-2 off the floor.
    The other thing I’d recommend if you have one at the gym is:
    http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/HipFlexors/LVHipFlexion.html
    Or even just on a cable machine
     
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  19. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    You've still got to teach your body to accelerate from any position and apply force into the ground so it's like I said it's more about the learning process and initially a traditional acceleration position is a much safer place to start then velocity mechanics

    If you can't accelerate then you can't hit top speed at any distance

    The last suggestion would be something you'd introduce after planned acc/mv has been coached and improved upon, you're not really training speed there more reaction time although competition increases arousal which will improve "in the moment" speed
     
  20. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    As above I'm using isometrics for the 3 main sprinting actions which serves as my assistance work at the moment along with 1 main strength movement

    Could you go without a rack and have them clean to the rack position aka Dan John? Or use deadlifts as your strength movement and then you wouldn't need the power rack?

    Even better a trap bar for easy use and easy teaching
     
  21. Drumroe

    Drumroe Premiership Player

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    Kirky I know you've seen it, but this is a good article explaining the isometric stuff kirky is talking about:

    https://www.just-fly-sports.com/modern-speed-training-alex-natera/

    I have only just started playing around with it the last 6 weeks or so but has been good so far..

    Re: Sleds, I'll use a range of different weights and it will also depend on the athlete, but go have used as heavy as 90% bodyweight for some.
     
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  22. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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    You know what sucks? Single Leg Stance with Opposite Leg Hip Flexion Calf Raise Isometric 5 x 4 x 8secs
     
  23. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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    Doubt I’ll be able to teach a bunch of guys who only want to 1/2 be there how to power clean enough weight to front squat lol
    If I can’t get a rack I’ll just run a hang jump/sumo/sldl combo

    Trap bar would be nice for jumps & farmers. I’ve got eBay and gumtree alerts set up so hopefully something comes through nice and cheap
     
  24. cptkirk

    cptkirk Premiership Player

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  25. Aeglos

    Aeglos Club Legend

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