List Mgmt. Squad reduction

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ImperialPurple

ImperialPurple

Matthew Pavlich Medallist
Veteran 10k Posts
May 26, 2003
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South Freo
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SFFC, Aussie Women's Cricket, HNK
So talk is squads may be reduced to 35 or maybe 38.

Assume no draft in 2020, who do you cut if we had to go 38, and then who would be the next 3 if we went to 35?

Currently there are 47 on the list. First 9 to go, then next 3. For mine:

All the rookies:
  1. North
  2. Carter
  3. Butters
  4. Thomas
  5. Watson
  6. Pina
  7. O’Reilly.... plus
  8. Mundy (hurts to say but I think he would retire anyway at his age, to give younger guys a go)
  9. One of Schultz (most likely him)/Matera/Switkowski (keep the other two)

    Then:
  10. Banfield
  11. Giro
  12. Crowden
Thoughts?
 
ImperialPurple said:
So talk is squads may be reduced to 35 or maybe 38.

Assume no draft in 2020, who do you cut if we had to go 38, and then who would be the next 3 if we went to 35?

Currently there are 47 on the list. First 9 to go, then next 3. For mine:

All the rookies:
  1. North
  2. Carter
  3. Butters
  4. Thomas
  5. Watson
  6. Pina
  7. O’Reilly.... plus
  8. Mundy (hurts to say but I think he would retire anyway at his age, to give younger guys a go)
  9. One of Schultz (most likely him)/Matera/Switkowski (keep the other two)

    Then:
  10. Banfield
  11. Giro
  12. Crowden
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
All of these guys are on minimum wage, so not much savings to be had?
Maybe the over the top payments to coaches, high end players will be adjusted until the league
fully recovers.
I can think of several at Freo where the boss was overpaid and the star recruit has yet to live up to the hype.
 
If it comes to this, I wouldn’t agree at all with the approach proposed above. At the end of the day we should be in the business of winning a premiership in the next few years. Every list management move should be made with that goal in mind. I’d go through the entire list and ask yourself “can this guy realistically be a premiership player on grand final day in 2022 or 2023 or 2024 or 2025? That’s the key question. I feel some of those rookies could certainly be, but I’m not so sure about many others listed?
I’d have my doubts about several -
Mundy definitely no,
conca - doubtful (even though he’s been a solid player for us & a leader), colyer - no,
Schultz - doubtful,
Taberner - no,
McCarthy - doubtful,
crowden - doubtful,
Dixon - possibly,
Valente (bad time to be out of contract),
Blakely - jury is out,
Tom north - no,
duman - maybe,
giro - lucky he has another years contract,
Stephen hill - massive injury cloud,
matera - id keep him but seems to be out of favour with coach
If there’s no draft, next years draft will be very deep with talent and we would need to not trade out of it like we did in 2001 and 2018. Personally think there will be a draft of some sort and we need more elite talent so I’d definitely free up a couple of list spots. Two or three more Top draft picks, then a massive effort to retain all the talent we have and we will be competing within 2 years at the top end of the ladder.
It would be incredibly typical of freo to delist rookies who go on to great things elsewhere!
 

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I would also say that banfield is unlikely to be a premiership players either based on what we have seen so far, while o’Reilly carter and Watson would need to show some signs of progress this year too..in fairness to both carter and Watson I’ve liked what little I’ve seen so far.. ultimately if it’s a borderline call to retain a young players and a guy in his mid 20s that’s had a number of chances, you’ve got to back the young player every time.
Hogan returning to form and fitness would really transform our team, we invested so heavily in him in 2018 at the expense of picking up Ben king at pick 6 (Bailey Smith was also available at that pick) and Probably another Quality player at pick 23 (bobby hill was still available then)
I feel like hogan could become one of the very top players in the AFL if he gets his head in the right mental space and his body in good shape but right now the trade is looking like a disaster.. maybe this lay-off will be a blessing for him, the sounds from longmuir last week about him were promising.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of who’s quality and who’s not but also in the immediate term when the season is back on. Wasn’t thinking about saving money, I guess it was more hypothetical for the ‘now’. Sorry, I should have been clearer what I was thinking.
Along the thinking above, I’m more in line with Dockeroo rather that blue shark, in that the list should look like guys who are likely to be part of a premiership push in 3-4 years time.
 
Purple dynamite said:
Wouldn't it make sense to commit a 20% cut on everyone's contract instead.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but I was just thinking about the AFL proposal as one of the possibilities, and thinking about who we’d cut. Tbh, I should have given it more thought before I posted the thread, but like everyone there’s a bit of cabin fever going on, and I just thought... oh this might be an interesting thing to have a chat about... 🥴🥴
 
ImperialPurple said:
So talk is squads may be reduced to 35 or maybe 38.

Assume no draft in 2020, who do you cut if we had to go 38, and then who would be the next 3 if we went to 35?

Currently there are 47 on the list. First 9 to go, then next 3. For mine:

All the rookies:
  1. North
  2. Carter
  3. Butters
  4. Thomas
  5. Watson
  6. Pina
  7. O’Reilly.... plus
  8. Mundy (hurts to say but I think he would retire anyway at his age, to give younger guys a go)
  9. One of Schultz (most likely him)/Matera/Switkowski (keep the other two)

    Then:
  10. Banfield
  11. Giro
  12. Crowden
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t be surprised if Matera and Schultz both stay tbh. Switta is contracted so will be staying.

Dixon and Valente are also out of contract and would struggle to stay on the list. Bewley probably is discussions too but probably stays based on our lack of wingers.

Can’t see clubs paying out players in a salary cap squeeze. Some clubs have the bulk of their list re-signed already so if lists are reduced they may be a few useful players traded for peanuts.

Let’s wait and see what the AFL says in time though. Rookie lists don’t seem to have been mentioned - does 35 players refer to senior list or totals. So many questions currently unanswered.
 
ImperialPurple said:
I was thinking more along the lines of who’s quality and who’s not but also in the immediate term when the season is back on. Wasn’t thinking about saving money, I guess it was more hypothetical for the ‘now’. Sorry, I should have been clearer what I was thinking.
Along the thinking above, I’m more in line with Dockeroo rather that blue shark, in that the list should look like guys who are likely to be part of a premiership push in 3-4 years time.
Click to expand...
Only reason the AFL talk is about list culling, is due to cost saving. AFL enforcing GC and GWS onto the
Competition and propping up the weaker Vic clubs.
Can see what they want to achieve with the Giants long term, but like the Bears without mergers, we have a
Poorer product and diluted talent pool.
Some codes may never fully recover, Rugby Union? Hopefully we will see less admin, interference.
 
The only good thing to come out if this is to chop a couple of poorly performing Melbourne clubs.
They have had 100 years to get their s**t together, been given every opportunity.
Unfortunately the Victorian market is saturated & they are untenable which is holding the game back.
10 Melbourne teams in a 18 team comp is ridiculous.
I dont see what the issue is of dropping some back to the vfl.
The afl them being able to support the remaining struggler to capture any vacuum left by the leavers.
Win win..
 
Not sure how we are going to cut the list down 31 odd without breaking contracts.

If cut all the rookies, we are left with 39 players on the main list. Then we will need to cut another 8 off the list.

Un-contracted list and possible outcome.
Mundy Retire
Matera ????
McCarthy sign
Banfield cut
Cox sign or trade
Bewley sign
Valenta cut
Schultz cut
 
If Australia has the opportunity to be the only football code in the world running, maybe our best chance
to sell the game in the US, etc.
Could be massive for this country highlighting our culture, indigenous round, purple haze, and tourism
Post Covid19.
Has to be better than playing in China, games eventually in the US could be Huge.
Baseball has done this in Aus, crack a different streaming market, gambling and save jobs.
 

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eastfreo75 said:
Not sure how we are going to cut the list down 31 odd without breaking contracts.

If cut all the rookies, we are left with 39 players on the main list. Then we will need to cut another 8 off the list.

Un-contracted list and possible outcome.
Mundy Retire
Matera ????
McCarthy sign
Banfield cut
Cox sign or trade
Bewley sign
Valenta cut
Schultz cut
Click to expand...

McCarthy sign..wouldn’t think he’s a lock.

I hope we pick up a delisted Ruckman or maybe 2. Should be on our list for needs.
 
freo1997 said:
McCarthy sign..wouldn’t think he’s a lock.

I hope we pick up a delisted Ruckman or maybe 2. Should be on our list for needs.
Click to expand...
Everybody see things differently.

I see McCarthy in our best 25.

Hope sure how any team can carry 4 rucks in a squad of 35.

If the AFL does go to 35, I will assume that their would be a mechanism to replace long term injured players either the mid season draft or any time free agency.
 
I’m a bit worried about Dixon.

He has shown a bit, but not enough to take him off the possible delist category. Without a solid season in the WAFL, he can’t show or improve his claims.

I suppose this applies to all our whippersnippers, but if the AFL gets games going, the WAFL must get up in a similar time range.
 
masai said:
I’m a bit worried about Dixon.

He has shown a bit, but not enough to take him off the possible delist category. Without a solid season in the WAFL, he can’t show or improve his claims.

I suppose this applies to all our whippersnippers, but if the AFL gets games going, the WAFL must get up in a similar time range.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, but I think what was learnt from the pre-season was that he is probably thought of as a potential backup ruckman around Meek (ie. if Lobb went down Dixon would probably be in). He is ahead of O'Reilly as a tall, possibly also Watson. If ten are gone, then:

1. Leno Thomas - because of off-field issues and is a rookie
2. David Mundy - asked to retire; sad but I am sure not too problematic;
3. Tom North - just hasn't done enough
4. Isiah Butters - really unlucky as he hasn't had much of chance to show anything yet, but hasn't done enough to survive.
5. Tobe Watson - really unlucky as he has demonstrated he is probably an adequate backman, but we have lots of players his size.
6. Stefan Giro - again unlucky
7. Jarvis Pina - unlucky, looked good and has a few tricks, but again we probably have enough backs on the list
8. Dillon O'Reilly - Useful in terms that he can arguably play forward, back or ruck, but Dixon is ahead of him as listed above
9. Brandon Matera - Very talented and experienced player, but just hasn't shown up this season and we have new talent in Serong and Henry
10. Jesse Hogan - Controversial and sad if it happened but out of contract and if they don't think there is a chance he can deal with his issues.
11. Travis Colyer - Unlucky but at 29 years of age, I reckon they may make a call there
12. Jason Carter - Unlucky as has the pace but not enough shown to persist with and plays same role as Young, Ryan, Wilson etc. and Fredericks in terms of pace attribute.
13. Sam Switkowksi - Unlucky, had a good season last year but just struggles with injuries.
14. Lachie Shultz - had a good pre-season, but I am not sure if we need to cut 14 that would be staying on the list.
 
Are posters seriously wanting Valente cut?

He is an absolute talent. Some young players under injury clouds end up guns. I'd take the chance on him.

The older statesmen will have to move on and a few rookies.

I still think there will be a draft but it will be very brief. Once the AFL decides on list number then wait for list cuts and trade week. Then the AFL can see how many list spots in total across all clubs and go with that.

Let's say most clubs have only 1 list spot available with a number of clubs two. There might be up to 25 players drafted.
 
There's certainly a fair bit of smoke around this one. A couple of bits and pieces floating around to add to what the OP has already stated.

1. There will be a draft. Clubs may be able to 'relax' on the compulsory picking of 3 players (or 2 and a Rookie Upgrade) and just take 2 players. Not sure about the Rookie Upgrade rule as yet.
2. Contracts will still need to be honoured.
3. Cat B Rookies will be unaffected, but the Rookie list will disappear. All players will be main list (or Cat A / Cat B Rookies)
4. It will happen over a number of years - not all in one hit. So...

In the first phase, my guess is they will tidy up the merging of the Rookie Lists into the main list (GCS will get an exception as the AFL honours it's deal made at the end of 2019). Making room for 2 picks at the draft Freo will have to get down from 45 to 38 prior to the draft.

Just my opinion, but if this were to happen - we're only looking at players who are out of contract at the end of 2020, so the 7 players to go would be:
1. Mundy (retire)
2. Dixon (delist)
3. North (delist)
4. Watson (delist)
5. O'Rielly (delist)
6. Pina (delist)

If Stephen Hill retires he becomes the 7th, if not Jason Carter may be in some trouble

We also have to remember that, there's nothing stopping a club delisting a player prior to the draft and then redrafting him.

And, just a final bit - McCarthy, Schultz and Banfield all played round 1 this year. They won't be on the block.
 
I wonder if reduced lists could actually influence the role of rucks. Already becoming more mobile no multi positional, I would be quite happy to add a mobile ruck/forward, but would have reservations about a more pure ruck.
 
Hogan has a third year (2021) on contract. As does Trav Colyer. That’s not saying either won’t face the chop but neither are out of contract.

Valente should be fine. Dixon and North in trouble for mine. Both got delisted and picked up as rookie’s.

I don’t think there will be a big shave to list size. Maybe 34 - 36 (primary list) + 4 - 6 (rookie list) for a total of 40. If you go with 36 then max 4 rookies for eg. We have a current primary list of 39. If there is a draft we’d likely pick no more than 3 so would need to delist 6 plus clear some rookies likely from: Dixon, North, O’Reilly, Watson & Leno Thomas.

Likely Primary list changes from: Crowden, Giro, Matera (OOC), McCarthy (OOC), Colyer, Banfield, Mundy (OOC/retire), Schultz (OOC).

We need some games this season to be able to make an informed decision on the primary list names above.
 
Us and Richmond have a short list of players coming off contract this year. Is that good or bad management?

Reading the tea leaves, I think that list will be reduced to 38 if their is a draft and 35 without a draft. If the lists are reduced to 38, the following year will be further reduced to 35.
 
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