Sri Lanka and the woes of independence

[ferball]

I wouldn't call it a "barely functioning democracy" if the government have been shown to lose elections and accept the result in the recent past.

There is more to democracy than just elections.

There needs to be transparency thru all institutions and a lack of nepotism. The guy who lost that election 2015 presidential election became Prime Minister and his brother was the president up until a few weeks ago. This is a sign of cycling the same people thru the most powerful positions.

In 2009 Lasantha Wickrematunge was assassinated, probably at the orders of the guy who was president until the other week. He was the one who wrote his own obituary a few days before his assassination and had it published in a paper he started a few days later.

You can read it here:

“And Then They Came For Me”: last words of Lasantha Wickrematunge

The 2009 UNESCO/Guillermo Cano World Press Freedom Prize is being awarded to the late Sri Lankan journalist and editor of the Sunday Leader, Lasantha W

en.unesco.org

What's happened in Sri lanka recently is the result of decades of corrupt rule by people who abused the democracy they were sposed to be leading. hence it was "barely functioning" and has led to this insane state of affairs right now.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There is more to democracy than just elections.

I disagree. The hallmark of democracy is whether there are free elections that are not rigged, and peaceful transitions of power.

There needs to be transparency thru all institutions and a lack of nepotism. The guy who lost that election 2015 presidential election became Prime Minister and his brother was the president up until a few weeks ago. This is a sign of cycling the same people thru the most powerful positions.

That's a sign of bad governance, not of a lack of democracy.

 

[ferball]

I disagree. The hallmark of democracy is whether there are free elections that are not rigged, and peaceful transitions of power.


That's a sign of bad governance, not of a lack of democracy.

There are issues with Sri Lanka's democracy beyond just the transfer of power between members of the Rajapaksa family.

Sri Lanka: Freedom in the World 2022 Country Report | Freedom House

See the Freedom in the World 2022 score and learn about democracy and freedom in Sri Lanka.

freedomhouse.org

 

[spinynorman]

I disagree. The hallmark of democracy is whether there are free elections that are not rigged, and peaceful transitions of power.

Surely the measure of a democracy can at least be interpreted as being more than voting once every 3-5 years? Certainly there can be different concepts of what democracy is, for example a democratic control of the economy - which could be argued to be more democratic than electing politicians who have been bought off by extremely wealthy lobby groups and act in their interests ahead of the people who vote for them.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sri Lanka cancels school exams over paper shortage

Sri Lanka cancels exams for millions of school students as the country runs out of printing paper, with Colombo short on dollars to finance imports.

www.abc.net.au

How does it come to this? What is the solution? Should they be on the phone to the Brits? So many questions

Lovely place to visit, great people with stoic optimism, hope they can get moving again.

Why does your thread heading say "The woes of independence"?

There is no mention of independence in your OP, and the only mention of it in the article is simply to say in passing that SL gained independence in 1948.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Surely the measure of a democracy can at least be interpreted as being more than voting once every 3-5 years? Certainly there can be different concepts of what democracy is, for example a democratic control of the economy - which could be argued to be more democratic than electing politicians who have been bought off by extremely wealthy lobby groups and act in their interests ahead of the people who vote for them.

Define "democratic control of the economy". What does that look like? Does the presence of billionaires and big businesses reduce this democratic control?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The world watched as they swam in the president's pool. Then the story took a dark turn

Their movement shot to global fame when they stormed the president's palace. But few saw the swift crackdown that followed.

www.abc.net.au

And we're back to protests being crushed with brute force.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Define "democratic control of the economy". What does that look like? Does the presence of billionaires and big businesses reduce this democratic control?

Well it does. If a two-party State kowtows to the same business elite in order to serve the great god Economy and keep the elite in their accustomed ivory towers is it real Democracy or is it just the illusion of free will?

I firmly believe that 'western democracy' is a sham. Unfortunately we haven't got anything more palatable at the moment.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Well it does. If a two-party State kowtows to the same business elite in order to serve the great god Economy and keep the elite in their accustomed ivory towers is it real Democracy or is it just the illusion of free will?

If people have the option of voting for a third party and don't do so, that's on them. I appreciate that partly comes down to the electoral system, but more than anything it comes down to a lack of imagination and desire for change from the people themselves.

I firmly believe that 'western democracy' is a sham. Unfortunately we haven't got anything more palatable at the moment.

What do you think a better concept of democracy would look like?

 

[Kwality]

Well it does. If a two-party State kowtows to the same business elite in order to serve the great god Economy and keep the elite in their accustomed ivory towers is it real Democracy or is it just the illusion of free will?

I firmly believe that 'western democracy' is a sham. Unfortunately we haven't got anything more palatable at the moment.

Are you forgetting the belt in 'the belt & road'. Countries that make poor decisions wear the consequences, no different to individuals.

 

[Saint]

If people have the option of voting for a third party and don't do so, that's on them. I appreciate that partly comes down to the electoral system, but more than anything it comes down to a lack of imagination and desire for change from the people themselves.


What do you think a better concept of democracy would look like?

Less capture by vested interests. Less corruption amongst officials. And if you think there's no corruption in Australian/UK/US politics, it's just your definition of "corruption". Because all of our politicians are in the payment of major companies (i.e. fossil fuels).

Sri Lanka is just an extreme version of Australian corruption/nepotism. It's why institutions such as Departments of Govt need to be more transparent with their decision making.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What do you think a better concept of democracy would look like?

As Saint wrote, far less lobbying by vested interests. And I'd add religious groups to that as well. As individuals, members of the various political parties can be people of faith, but the State shall remain godless. No religious consideration shall rule on marriage nor abortion.

No branch-stacking.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Are you forgetting the belt in 'the belt & road'. Countries that make poor decisions wear the consequences, no different to individuals.

I was more replying to Johnny Bananas line "Does the presence of billionaires and big businesses reduce this democratic control?" but you make a good point. Countries that make poor decisions should own the results and be accountable, especially to their own people.

 

[Saint]

I was more replying to Johnny Bananas line "Does the presence of billionaires and big businesses reduce this democratic control?" but you make a good point. Countries that make poor decisions should own the results and be accountable, especially to their own people.

Too easy to say "bad decision" in hindsight. But there are some decisions which incompetent corrupt or dictators take which are obviously "bad decisions" or, at best, risky gambles (Sri Lanka's belt and road investment).

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Less capture by vested interests. Less corruption amongst officials. And if you think there's no corruption in Australian/UK/US politics, it's just your definition of "corruption". Because all of our politicians are in the payment of major companies (i.e. fossil fuels).

As Saint wrote, far less lobbying by vested interests. And I'd add religious groups to that as well. As individuals, members of the various political parties can be people of faith, but the State shall remain godless. No religious consideration shall rule on marriage nor abortion.

No branch-stacking.

No argument from me on either of those, you're both correct. I wonder how we'd be able to get such a society though, what rules would have to be in place and what cultural shifts would have to occur. The Greens have a policy of not taking corporate donations, but I don't see either of the major parties ever adopting such a policy.

Even some of the donations the Greens take could theoretically be used to influence parliamentarians, such as the personal donations they've received from a professional gambler. I don't think it's had any practical effect since the party remains firmly opposed to pokies and gambling advertising, but it is theoretically possible.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Too easy to say "bad decision" in hindsight. But there are some decisions which incompetent corrupt or dictators take which are obviously "bad decisions" or, at best, risky gambles (Sri Lanka's belt and road investment).

How do you protect against this? The Rajapaksas were elected in fair elections. Closer to home, multiple toll tunnels were proposed, mostly by the Liberals, with the numbers fudged to make them look like they weren't utterly terrible investments when they clearly were (and this has been borne out by the ones that were built).

 

[Kwality]

Arguably for SL the decision over agriculture has had a greater impact on the populace.

Once self-sufficient nation reels from fall-out of ill-conceived shift to organic agriculture, compounded by fuel shortage

Sri Lanka faces ‘man-made’ food crisis as farmers stop planting

Once self-sufficient nation reels from fall-out of ill-conceived shift to organic agriculture, economic crisis.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[CD Xbow]

Arguably for SL the decision over agriculture has had a greater impact on the populace.

Once self-sufficient nation reels from fall-out of ill-conceived shift to organic agriculture, compounded by fuel shortage

Sri Lanka faces ‘man-made’ food crisis as farmers stop planting

Once self-sufficient nation reels from fall-out of ill-conceived shift to organic agriculture, economic crisis.

www.aljazeera.com

I think it's pretty hard to pick out one thing in the 'perfect storm' of Sri Lanka's economic collapse. Sure, the fertilizer thing was a big own goal, but there were many others by the corrupt and incompetent Rajapaksa administration - big vanity projects that added 'bad debt', cutting taxes, years of corruption, unhealed wounds from the civil war, increasing authoritarianism by the government etc. Then there were the externals, real black swan events, covid19, collapse of the tourist trade, energy and food prices rising because of stupid Putins war. All of these (and probably a lot more I don't know) contributed to the current woes of SL.

 

[Kwality]

I think it's pretty hard to pick out one thing in the 'perfect storm' of Sri Lanka's economic collapse. Sure, the fertilizer thing was a big own goal, but there were many others by the corrupt and incompetent Rajapaksa administration - big vanity projects that added 'bad debt', cutting taxes, years of corruption, unhealed wounds from the civil war, increasing authoritarianism by the government etc. Then there were the externals, real black swan events, covid19, collapse of the tourist trade, energy and food prices rising because of stupid Putins war. All of these (and probably a lot more I don't know) contributed to the current woes of SL.

External factors are just that, the self goals are in their own control.

 

[Saint]

How do you protect against this? The Rajapaksas were elected in fair elections. Closer to home, multiple toll tunnels were proposed, mostly by the Liberals, with the numbers fudged to make them look like they weren't utterly terrible investments when they clearly were (and this has been borne out by the ones that were built).

Were they "fair" elections? Just because everyone had a vote, doesn't mean it was "fair". If the Rajapaskas take money from corporate donors, don't they have an advantage over somebody who doesn't? Is that still "fair"?

I would ban corporate donations (probably all donations above say $2,000) from political parties, along with term limits and much stricter funding rules and regulations on political advertising and bring back media ownership limits.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Were they "fair" elections? Just because everyone had a vote, doesn't mean it was "fair". If the Rajapaskas take money from corporate donors, don't they have an advantage over somebody who doesn't? Is that still "fair"?

Once again, their loss in the 2015 presidential election shows that in general, elections are not being rigged in their favour. A lot of people willingly swallowed their snake oil.

I'm also struggling to think of a single multiparty democracy in the world where parties don't take any corporate donations. By that measure, very few elections would be objectively fair. Perhaps I mean subjectively fair, as in fair within the constraints of parties taking corporate donations and similar happenings.

I would ban corporate donations (probably all donations above say $2,000) from political parties, along with term limits and much stricter funding rules and regulations on political advertising and bring back media ownership limits.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Kwality]

Sri Lanka slaps on social media ban after child hunger posts​

Denying the problem is no solution to child hunger.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/sri-lanka-slaps-on-social-media-ban-after-child-hunger-posts/news-story/f75116946a9ea1ba050847fc9b1fb4fd

' “Expressing opinions on social media by a public officer ... shall constitute an offence that leads to taking disciplinary action,” the order said.

It followed claims from provincial health officials and teachers that dozens of students were fainting in schools because of a lack of food.

Since late 2021, Sri Lanka’s 22 million people have been suffering the country’s worst economic crisis after the government ran out of dollars to import
many essentials. This triggered huge shortages and unofficial inflation rates second only to Zimbabwe, as well as protests that led to the ouster of president Gotabaya Rajapaksa in July.'