Ssschneider out.....Ssschmidt in.

FM0226

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#26
Burns, Buckley, O'bree, Clement, Rocca, Lockyer, Wakelin!!!!
EXPERIENCE my patronised friend!
Every team needs it. It's what makes the younger ones learn their trade.
The Pies DIDN"T blood all these players at once either. Compliments of a near bottom finish, with which you would cry foul once again should the Swans ever do it, they picked up Pendles & Thomas. Two players that were in the top ten in the draft. Heath Shaw has been around as long as Schneider, as has Swan.

When are you going to start making your valid point Rancidpants. Or.......................was that it?
It's because we don't took advantage of the draft (due to the fact that we have been consistently good), that's why we should take care of the young talent even more and try to make them as good as a player as we can. Schmidt, I thought was one of our more consistent players, only got 14 games this year.

Veteran players are critical for any successful team, but our problem is that 13/18 players in the last game we played are going to be 28+ next year. Of which 5 of them are over 30 and the likes of Crouch and J. Bolton's bodies are even older because of the style of footy they play.
 

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Tedeski

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Thread starter #27
if, if, IF.....
we did NOT win them....we gave away too big a start against west coast...why? coz we played gutless, tepid, futile football until it was too late
we lost to essendon because we have too many players ("experienced") who can't kick goals when it matters
we drew with brisbane because we lost our bollocks and tried to save a lead rather than go for it and just win the friggin match

now i'm really fecked off....part of me wants roos to go in with the same tired faces in our 22 for round 1 next season, half a dozen of whom FAILED in our loss to c'wood in the finals, and let's see what happens
a drab, tired, spiritless loss, to set the pattern for a season ending in the bottom four

fcking disgraceful

Beautiful.........just f...ing beautiful!

Your really "fecked off" now are you?

So tell me! Did you happen to enjoy our p'ship win in 2005?

Cos I can't help but feel that it must have given you the "fecken" sh.ts too!!

Support your team mate! The youngsters will be given a game one at a time. But they'll have to grab their chance when they get. As Malceski has!
Roos, thank god, is in charge of this team & always stays calm. You however, need to relax & enjoy what they have given us thus far since Roos has been coach. & have faith in his system. His coaching record is second to none since he started coaching & still the old knockers are around.
Bring back Barassi & bring back our wonderful anthem when we broke the record for 33 consecutive losses under Barassi.
Lets all sing it together...............does everyone remember the words.

UUUUP THERRRRRE FOR SYDNEY................. IN THERRRRRE & FIGHT!


Ohhh....................................THEY were the days. Don't you just miss them Rancidpants!
This Roos bloke...........................feck him off!!
 

liz

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#28
There is a middle ground between sticking with the old and sweeping them all out in favour of the ACTAFL champions.

There is a core of highly experienced and effective footballers who, if they remain fit, will be automatic picks in each and every match. I am not advocating that they shouldn't be picked based on form, merely that it is inconceivable that their form won't merit selection so long as they are not carrying injury. I speak of Kirk, Goodes, B2, Kennelly, Hall, Everitt, Jolly, O'Keefe. Despite an ordinary 2007, Buchanan is also likely to be a permanent fixture, and while Malceski doesn't have the experience of those above, he has the class. O'Loughlin and Barry almost belong in this group of automatics - I only leave them out because there is maybe a bigger question mark over when exactly their bodies will decide they've had enough. And so long as he doesn't go on a KFC walk-about or miss more massage sessions, Davis' class pretty much guarantees himself a spot too.

So that is 13 players - just over half the team - who can be viewed as walk up starts so long as they keep themselves fit. And if all those guys are in at least decent form, any team that contains them should be, at worst, competitive in each and every match.

Amongst the rest there are the highly experienced players who have given much to our club and probably will keep doing so, but have the odd limitation to their game, whether it is the questionable disposal of Fosdike and Bolton, the questionable pace / ability to stay with the increasing pace of the game of Mathews, questionable body fitness of Crouch, questionable attacking instincts of Ablett and McVeigh, questionable finesse of Bevan and LRT (though I think LRT's value structure wise is such that I almost put him in the group above).

Then there are the promising youngsters that showed a bit and are all into their 3rd, 4th or even 5th years on the list and need to start staking their claim now or forever lose their chance.

All I want is for each and every team to be picked on merit and on form. If the youngsters warrant the chance to show they can replace a Mathews, Bolton or Crouch, I want them to be given that. And if a McVeigh or a Fosdike or Ablett isn't willing or able to chase and tackle in the way that the Collingwood youngsters showed them how to do, I want them to get a month's ticket to Canberra to rediscover those arts.
 
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#29
Beautiful.........just f...ing beautiful!

Your really "fecked off" now are you?

So tell me! Did you happen to enjoy our p'ship win in 2005?

Cos I can't help but feel that it must have given you the "fecken" sh.ts too!!

Support your team mate! The youngsters will be given a game one at a time. But they'll have to grab their chance when they get. As Malceski has!
Roos, thank god, is in charge of this team & always stays calm. You however, need to relax & enjoy what they have given us thus far since Roos has been coach. & have faith in his system. His coaching record is second to none since he started coaching & still the old knockers are around.
Bring back Barassi & bring back our wonderful anthem when we broke the record for 33 consecutive losses under Barassi.
Lets all sing it together...............does everyone remember the words.

UUUUP THERRRRRE FOR SYDNEY................. IN THERRRRRE & FIGHT!


Ohhh....................................THEY were the days. Don't you just miss them Rancidpants!
This Roos bloke...........................feck him off!!
yeah, it was great to win the flag....TWO years ago....how long you want to keep those players? til they actually die on the field
are you among the weeping willows who still consider schneider a swan??? he's gone, that's the nature of modern sport, and if we don't regenerate we'll die
you think the same 22 that started the game v c'wood are gonna get us into the finals in 2008? like i said, just keep your head in the sand
at no stage did i say we had to get rid of all of them, but answer me this, honestly....were you happy with the performances of crouch, mathews, bevan, mcveigh, barry, schneider, everitt and davis in that last loss to the pies????
and hey, let's not condemn blokes for one bad game....so go back over the season, what did crouch do to deserve a place in our best 22? and the rest of them?
i'd persist with davis and everitt, and probly leo but in a reduced role

i can't believe a call for new faces has marked me some kind of traitor, you narrow-minded git

yes, we won a flag in 2005, and now it's time to move on

and by the way, who the fck mentioned barassi? what's he got to do with it?
 

Tedeski

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There is a middle ground between sticking with the old and sweeping them all out in favour of the ACTAFL champions.

There is a core of highly experienced and effective footballers who, if they remain fit, will be automatic picks in each and every match. I am not advocating that they shouldn't be picked based on form, merely that it is inconceivable that their form won't merit selection so long as they are not carrying injury. I speak of Kirk, Goodes, B2, Kennelly, Hall, Everitt, Jolly, O'Keefe. Despite an ordinary 2007, Buchanan is also likely to be a permanent fixture, and while Malceski doesn't have the experience of those above, he has the class. O'Loughlin and Barry almost belong in this group of automatics - I only leave them out because there is maybe a bigger question mark over when exactly their bodies will decide they've had enough. And so long as he doesn't go on a KFC walk-about or miss more massage sessions, Davis' class pretty much guarantees himself a spot too.

So that is 13 players - just over half the team - who can be viewed as walk up starts so long as they keep themselves fit. And if all those guys are in at least decent form, any team that contains them should be, at worst, competitive in each and every match.

Amongst the rest there are the highly experienced players who have given much to our club and probably will keep doing so, but have the odd limitation to their game, whether it is the questionable disposal of Fosdike and Bolton, the questionable pace / ability to stay with the increasing pace of the game of Mathews, questionable body fitness of Crouch, questionable attacking instincts of Ablett and McVeigh, questionable finesse of Bevan and LRT (though I think LRT's value structure wise is such that I almost put him in the group above).

Then there are the promising youngsters that showed a bit and are all into their 3rd, 4th or even 5th years on the list and need to start staking their claim now or forever lose their chance.

All I want is for each and every team to be picked on merit and on form. If the youngsters warrant the chance to show they can replace a Mathews, Bolton or Crouch, I want them to be given that. And if a McVeigh or a Fosdike or Ablett isn't willing or able to chase and tackle in the way that the Collingwood youngsters showed them how to do, I want them to get a month's ticket to Canberra to rediscover those arts.
And this Liz, is the way it SHOULD be. You don't get rid of players just because they are older. You drop them back if their form doesn't warrant a game. Obviously players like Jude & Matthews earnt their spot in the team in the coaches eyes in 2007 because they played every match. And poor old Jude! He cops a lot of flack from people on here. The guy's polled the 4th most votes in the brownlow from our team.

Good to see the men in white who see him in the contested clinches rate the guy.
 
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#31
Burns, Buckley, O'bree, Clement, Rocca, Lockyer, Wakelin!!!!
EXPERIENCE my patronised friend!
Every team needs it. It's what makes the younger ones learn their trade.
The Pies DIDN"T blood all these players at once either. Compliments of a near bottom finish, with which you would cry foul once again should the Swans ever do it, they picked up Pendles & Thomas. Two players that were in the top ten in the draft. Heath Shaw has been around as long as Schneider, as has Swan.

When are you going to start making your valid point Rancidpants. Or.......................was that it?
is that an echo of the infamous gunnar longshanks and his neverneding call for others to "make points"
my points included that i never said all our young players should be blooded at once
i don't recall suggesting kirk, goodes, c bolton, hall, micky o, jolly, jude (if he's still at the club), buchanan or fosdike et al should be dropped, and therein lies the experience you so desperately crave....
my POINT was that there comes a time in every player's career where a combination of waning performance, fading speed and skills and the ageing process means they no longer warrant a position in the senior team, no matter ho heroic they were in a previous, successful campaign
and let's not forget it was two years ago...so when the swans next take the field it will be season 2008, and TWO other teams have won the flag since we last did.....
 
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#32
Burns, Buckley, O'bree, Clement, Rocca, Lockyer, Wakelin!!!!
EXPERIENCE my patronised friend!
Every team needs it. It's what makes the younger ones learn their trade.
The Pies DIDN"T blood all these players at once either. Compliments of a near bottom finish, with which you would cry foul once again should the Swans ever do it, they picked up Pendles & Thomas. Two players that were in the top ten in the draft. Heath Shaw has been around as long as Schneider, as has Swan.

When are you going to start making your valid point Rancidpants. Or.......................was that it?
"experience", eh? you should lead the campaign for us to sign lance whitnall, he ticks all your boxes.....he's slow, has a chronic injury, is 28-plus and he can't keep up the way the game was played in 2007, but by crikey he's got experience

and that's another fecking "point"....
maybe you didn't notice, but the most successful teams in 07, led by the dominant cats, were the ones that played an open, attacking, FAST style of footy....that's how the pies beat us, that's how west coast beat us, that's how the roos beat us, and that's how we won our two best games, v port and v hawthorn,
but when we stuck to our slowdown style, as dictated by our older, slower, out-of-form, worn-out players, we were beaten, and we were beaten without even giving ourselves a fair crack....and we were beaten by teams such as essendon and adelaide (and i'm still tearing my a.se hairs out in frustration at our ongoing inability to beat those lummoxes)

but i'm sure you'll get your way, we'll stick with the same old faces and push on with our hibernation-style footy, and this time next year, and again in 09 and beyond, you can keep reminding me of how we won in 2005 and how dare i suggest we maybe get rid of some of those mighty premiership warriors
 

FM0226

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#33
"experience", eh? you should lead the campaign for us to sign lance whitnall, he ticks all your boxes.....he's slow, has a chronic injury, is 28-plus and he can't keep up the way the game was played in 2007, but by crikey he's got experience

and that's another fecking "point"....
maybe you didn't notice, but the most successful teams in 07, led by the dominant cats, were the ones that played an open, attacking, FAST style of footy....that's how the pies beat us, that's how west coast beat us, that's how the roos beat us, and that's how we won our two best games, v port and v hawthorn,
but when we stuck to our slowdown style, as dictated by our older, slower, out-of-form, worn-out players, we were beaten, and we were beaten without even giving ourselves a fair crack....and we were beaten by teams such as essendon and adelaide (and i'm still tearing my a.se hairs out in frustration at our ongoing inability to beat those lummoxes)

but i'm sure you'll get your way, we'll stick with the same old faces and push on with our hibernation-style footy, and this time next year, and again in 09 and beyond, you can keep reminding me of how we won in 2005 and how dare i suggest we maybe get rid of some of those mighty premiership warriors
Have to disagree with a lot of that actually. There's nothing wrong with our style of football - we just didn't execute the game plan probably. One of the reasons that we adopted this style is due to our strength...or rather, our weaknesses.

Due to our consistency in contesting finals football and the lack of cheapees - eg. F/S or local players, our list consists of a large portion of average-good players and we got lucky and managed to made a few of these player to the 'elite' group: eg. Goodes, C. Bolton etc. But I have no dellusions about our list - it's a good list, but not the best in the comp, but best lists in the comp does not necessarily win premierships.

The main reason why we will struggle to adapt to the faster style is because we lack two main ingredients - we are not a very good marking side (in the forward line) nor are we a particular good field kicking side. Adapting a quicker style simply for stylish reasons is just suicidal. But having said that, there's no reason why we can't improve our performance within our existing style of football. Our ridiculous high percentage also suggests that we are great when we on fire and sh*t when we're not and that has got to do with the players rather than the game plan. I don't think we've changed our style of football at all in our good games, we just did it a lot better (and like we are suppose to)

You've labelled Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood as the ones to beat, but the style they play is actually a lot closer to ours than say Carlton, Western Bulldogs or Port Adelaide. Defensively they play one-on-one football and create a lot of attacking opportunities through opposition's turnovers - which has been our forte in the past few years but this year, they have really beat us at our game.

In fact, I will say one of our weaker aspects is tackling and frontline pressure - our 'effective' tackles are way down on the previous years. And Geelong is not all about kick long and quickly, in fact, they do the opposite but is executing a lot better than us because they've worked a lot harder as a team as we have this year.

Gary Ablett gets a lot of effective possessions because of his team mates blocking and making space for him and that's something that we have regressed dramatically this year. Of all the players, only Kirk seems to be the only one willing to one that shepreds after a hand-ball and it was especially non-existent in the forward line which was the main reason where we were so good at inside 50s a few years ago.

I agree that new blood should be coming in to replace some of those that seems to be more concerned about his man and his position in the team rather than helping the team win - (Yes Mr. Matthews, I'm looking at you), but throwing everything that we had away is a bit over the top.
 

Tedeski

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Have to disagree with a lot of that actually. There's nothing wrong with our style of football - we just didn't execute the game plan probably. One of the reasons that we adopted this style is due to our strength...or rather, our weaknesses.

Due to our consistency in contesting finals football and the lack of cheapees - eg. F/S or local players, our list consists of a large portion of average-good players and we got lucky and managed to made a few of these player to the 'elite' group: eg. Goodes, C. Bolton etc. But I have no dellusions about our list - it's a good list, but not the best in the comp, but best lists in the comp does not necessarily win premierships.

The main reason why we will struggle to adapt to the faster style is because we lack two main ingredients - we are not a very good marking side (in the forward line) nor are we a particular good field kicking side. Adapting a quicker style simply for stylish reasons is just suicidal. But having said that, there's no reason why we can't improve our performance within our existing style of football. Our ridiculous high percentage also suggests that we are great when we on fire and sh*t when we're not and that has got to do with the players rather than the game plan. I don't think we've changed our style of football at all in our good games, we just did it a lot better (and like we are suppose to)

You've labelled Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood as the ones to beat, but the style they play is actually a lot closer to ours than say Carlton, Western Bulldogs or Port Adelaide. Defensively they play one-on-one football and create a lot of attacking opportunities through opposition's turnovers - which has been our forte in the past few years but this year, they have really beat us at our game.

In fact, I will say one of our weaker aspects is tackling and frontline pressure - our 'effective' tackles are way down on the previous years. And Geelong is not all about kick long and quickly, in fact, they do the opposite but is executing a lot better than us because they've worked a lot harder as a team as we have this year.

Gary Ablett gets a lot of effective possessions because of his team mates blocking and making space for him and that's something that we have regressed dramatically this year. Of all the players, only Kirk seems to be the only one willing to one that shepreds after a hand-ball and it was especially non-existent in the forward line which was the main reason where we were so good at inside 50s a few years ago.

I agree that new blood should be coming in to replace some of those that seems to be more concerned about his man and his position in the team rather than helping the team win - (Yes Mr. Matthews, I'm looking at you), but throwing everything that we had away is a bit over the top.
Thank you & well said!:thumbsu:
 

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#35
Have to disagree with a lot of that actually. There's nothing wrong with our style of football - we just didn't execute the game plan probably. One of the reasons that we adopted this style is due to our strength...or rather, our weaknesses.

Due to our consistency in contesting finals football and the lack of cheapees - eg. F/S or local players, our list consists of a large portion of average-good players and we got lucky and managed to made a few of these player to the 'elite' group: eg. Goodes, C. Bolton etc. But I have no dellusions about our list - it's a good list, but not the best in the comp, but best lists in the comp does not necessarily win premierships.

The main reason why we will struggle to adapt to the faster style is because we lack two main ingredients - we are not a very good marking side (in the forward line) nor are we a particular good field kicking side. Adapting a quicker style simply for stylish reasons is just suicidal. But having said that, there's no reason why we can't improve our performance within our existing style of football. Our ridiculous high percentage also suggests that we are great when we on fire and sh*t when we're not and that has got to do with the players rather than the game plan. I don't think we've changed our style of football at all in our good games, we just did it a lot better (and like we are suppose to)

You've labelled Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood as the ones to beat, but the style they play is actually a lot closer to ours than say Carlton, Western Bulldogs or Port Adelaide. Defensively they play one-on-one football and create a lot of attacking opportunities through opposition's turnovers - which has been our forte in the past few years but this year, they have really beat us at our game.

In fact, I will say one of our weaker aspects is tackling and frontline pressure - our 'effective' tackles are way down on the previous years. And Geelong is not all about kick long and quickly, in fact, they do the opposite but is executing a lot better than us because they've worked a lot harder as a team as we have this year.

Gary Ablett gets a lot of effective possessions because of his team mates blocking and making space for him and that's something that we have regressed dramatically this year. Of all the players, only Kirk seems to be the only one willing to one that shepreds after a hand-ball and it was especially non-existent in the forward line which was the main reason where we were so good at inside 50s a few years ago.

I agree that new blood should be coming in to replace some of those that seems to be more concerned about his man and his position in the team rather than helping the team win - (Yes Mr. Matthews, I'm looking at you), but throwing everything that we had away is a bit over the top.
Interesting post. The Blocking is something I've watched for a while now myself. We do block and shephard brillaintly across the HB lines, however, just not so much in the middle of the park. We really are more focused on pushing to the wings and trying to deny the oppositon the corridor in those areas.

I felt we played the boundary lines far too often, especially as the new interpretations were really beginning to favour quicker service to the forwards. But I felt that much of our boundary line play was actually strategic - an attempt to protect our weakened backline (which battled hard, but was really below strength almost all year) from quick turnovers. It's something we've always done. But in 07, we just couldn't get off the fence.

With a full strength list and the improved structure that comes with it, I'm confident we'll lift substantially in 08. And hopefully we can get a lot more corridor footy happening. :thumbsu:
 

Tedeski

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Interesting post. The Blocking is something I've watched for a while now myself. We do block and shephard brillaintly across the HB lines, however, just not so much in the middle of the park. We really are more focused on pushing to the wings and trying to deny the oppositon the corridor in those areas.

I felt we played the boundary lines far too often, especially as the new interpretations were really beginning to favour quicker service to the forwards. But I felt that much of our boundary line play was actually strategic - an attempt to protect our weakened backline (which battled hard, but was really below strength almost all year) from quick turnovers. It's something we've always done. But in 07, we just couldn't get off the fence.

With a full strength list and the improved structure that comes with it, I'm confident we'll lift substantially in 08. And hopefully we can get a lot more corridor footy happening. :thumbsu:

Good to see a few more people seeing things a little brighter then some others do.
As I've posted on many an occasion. Take 2 or3 players out of any team, for example Geelong losing to Port at home in the last seconds, & any...................I stress, ANY team will be bent over by quality opposition. Just as we were by the Pies all year.
The problem Roos had with resting some players was that we were still a chance to make the finals all year & he couldn't just bite the bullet & player 5 'juniors' at once without jeapardising the chance of playing finals.
In hindsight...............& there are many hindsight experts amongst us.............perhaps he could have rested a few players. But what if we missed out on the finals by the skin of our teeth.
Then that would have made for some interesting reading on BF from the Swans supporters that are never happy no matter what!!

Roosy seems to be flogging a dead horse I reckon. Anything short of a flag, & some on here will never be happy.

I'm glad that Roos at least has made them happy once in 72 years!
Cheers!
 

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#37
They're both shortish. They both have names beginning with Sch.

That's about where the similarities end, as I see it.
Not really.Both can't play either.

Schmidt has been there for ages and is finally getting a few games. He is slow and should have "wide load" across his backside.

Schnider can't play back and run in the midfield. 3 goals up he will slot in the miracle goal and high five the world, 3 down he will miss.

At last they have focused on some long striding players in the team instead of the dwarfs they have been recruiting for years.
 

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#38
Interesting post. The Blocking is something I've watched for a while now myself. We do block and shephard brillaintly across the HB lines, however, just not so much in the middle of the park. We really are more focused on pushing to the wings and trying to deny the oppositon the corridor in those areas.

I felt we played the boundary lines far too often, especially as the new interpretations were really beginning to favour quicker service to the forwards. But I felt that much of our boundary line play was actually strategic - an attempt to protect our weakened backline (which battled hard, but was really below strength almost all year) from quick turnovers. It's something we've always done. But in 07, we just couldn't get off the fence.

With a full strength list and the improved structure that comes with it, I'm confident we'll lift substantially in 08. And hopefully we can get a lot more corridor footy happening. :thumbsu:
I think you're absolutely spot on. Hopefully if we inject a bit more pace and endeavour into the team - the likes of Mattner, Barlow and possibly Jack and getting Kennelly back (he's the one in our team that is most likely to take a risk), that will happen. There are too many times this year when the ball is in the hands of J.Bolton and Fosdike on the forward flank and our play stops there.

We also have to find ways to get pass the 'flood' of other teams, we were really tragic against floods this year - and pray for more day games and no rain :D
 

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#39
Not really.Both can't play either.

Schmidt has been there for ages and is finally getting a few games. He is slow and should have "wide load" across his backside.

Schnider can't play back and run in the midfield. 3 goals up he will slot in the miracle goal and high five the world, 3 down he will miss.

At last they have focused on some long striding players in the team instead of the dwarfs they have been recruiting for years.
That's the most ridiculous comments I've heard for a while.
Bartel, G.Ablett, Kerr, Mitchell and Power are hardly 'long-striding' players and I'll them over 90% of blokes over 190cm in the game today.

Why in the world would we want to play Schmidt down the back? He has a decent kick for goal, good vision and good field kicking skills - in fact, better than a lot of players on our senior team right now.

By the way, we did draft a few 'long-striding' players like Powell, M.Davis, Thewlis, Sunqvist etc. that didn't exactly lit the world on fire.
 
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#41
Have to disagree with a lot of that actually. There's nothing wrong with our style of football - we just didn't execute the game plan probably. One of the reasons that we adopted this style is due to our strength...or rather, our weaknesses.

Due to our consistency in contesting finals football and the lack of cheapees - eg. F/S or local players, our list consists of a large portion of average-good players and we got lucky and managed to made a few of these player to the 'elite' group: eg. Goodes, C. Bolton etc. But I have no dellusions about our list - it's a good list, but not the best in the comp, but best lists in the comp does not necessarily win premierships.

The main reason why we will struggle to adapt to the faster style is because we lack two main ingredients - we are not a very good marking side (in the forward line) nor are we a particular good field kicking side. Adapting a quicker style simply for stylish reasons is just suicidal. But having said that, there's no reason why we can't improve our performance within our existing style of football. Our ridiculous high percentage also suggests that we are great when we on fire and sh*t when we're not and that has got to do with the players rather than the game plan. I don't think we've changed our style of football at all in our good games, we just did it a lot better (and like we are suppose to)

You've labelled Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood as the ones to beat, but the style they play is actually a lot closer to ours than say Carlton, Western Bulldogs or Port Adelaide. Defensively they play one-on-one football and create a lot of attacking opportunities through opposition's turnovers - which has been our forte in the past few years but this year, they have really beat us at our game.

In fact, I will say one of our weaker aspects is tackling and frontline pressure - our 'effective' tackles are way down on the previous years. And Geelong is not all about kick long and quickly, in fact, they do the opposite but is executing a lot better than us because they've worked a lot harder as a team as we have this year.

Gary Ablett gets a lot of effective possessions because of his team mates blocking and making space for him and that's something that we have regressed dramatically this year. Of all the players, only Kirk seems to be the only one willing to one that shepreds after a hand-ball and it was especially non-existent in the forward line which was the main reason where we were so good at inside 50s a few years ago.

I agree that new blood should be coming in to replace some of those that seems to be more concerned about his man and his position in the team rather than helping the team win - (Yes Mr. Matthews, I'm looking at you), but throwing everything that we had away is a bit over the top.

the part i highlighted at the top of your spiel is an example of an argument that's going in ever-decreasing circles up its own a.se

doesn't that strike you as being a problem....i'll take it you meant properly, not "probably", but the fact we didn't execute it all suggests we have a player personnel problem, seeing as we didn't execute it not for merely a quarter, or a half or one game, but for most of the goddamn season

"we are not a good marking side nor a good field kicking side".....
"our effective tackles are way down on previous years".....
so why would you want to persist with players who are guilty (more often than not) of these failings???
in fact, you're actually making MY points for me, yet you and tedeski et al are insistent that i'm completely wrong
i'll ask again: if we're full of players whose combined faults and weaknesses have led us to a fading 7th position, we all acknowledge they're getting older and slower, why why WHY the fck are you and the other bloke advocating we stick with the same players....

"we have regressed dramatically this year"....yes, we have, but your acolyte tedeski seems to think that's not a problem, that as long as we stick with these same players, because....um....i dunno....they'll get better!???!!?!?!

as for claiming i want change for style's sake, i'll again cite the wins over port and hawthorn (rd 22), and suggest that playing open, attacking football can have positive results

as for throwing everything away, i have not said that at any point, nor do i expect a flag every year, i just do not see any sense or reason at all to eschew the idea of changing personnel simply because we won a flag with a large majority of this team two seasona ago
 
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#42
Good to see a few more people seeing things a little brighter then some others do.
As I've posted on many an occasion. Take 2 or3 players out of any team, for example Geelong losing to Port at home in the last seconds, & any...................I stress, ANY team will be bent over by quality opposition. Just as we were by the Pies all year.
The problem Roos had with resting some players was that we were still a chance to make the finals all year & he couldn't just bite the bullet & player 5 'juniors' at once without jeapardising the chance of playing finals.
In hindsight...............& there are many hindsight experts amongst us.............perhaps he could have rested a few players. But what if we missed out on the finals by the skin of our teeth.
Then that would have made for some interesting reading on BF from the Swans supporters that are never happy no matter what!!

Roosy seems to be flogging a dead horse I reckon. Anything short of a flag, & some on here will never be happy.

I'm glad that Roos at least has made them happy once in 72 years!
Cheers!
pull your head in....check some of the other threads through trade week and you'll see i've defended roos as staunchly as anyone, and certainly your backhanded snipes could be directed possibly to some of those swans-supporting posters who quite openly posted such comments as "f..k you roos"....

"anything short of a flag"??? i think in calling for both personnel AND style changes, i'm conceding that we're unlikely to be winning a flag in the immediate future, but if we go down your path our brave but ageing player list will creak us into the bottom four and any revuilding/regenerating our team needs will thus be at least 2-3 years BEHIND what it would be if we get started now
 

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#43
the part i highlighted at the top of your spiel is an example of an argument that's going in ever-decreasing circles up its own a.se

doesn't that strike you as being a problem....i'll take it you meant properly, not "probably", but the fact we didn't execute it all suggests we have a player personnel problem, seeing as we didn't execute it not for merely a quarter, or a half or one game, but for most of the goddamn season

"we are not a good marking side nor a good field kicking side".....
"our effective tackles are way down on previous years".....
so why would you want to persist with players who are guilty (more often than not) of these failings???
in fact, you're actually making MY points for me, yet you and tedeski et al are insistent that i'm completely wrong
i'll ask again: if we're full of players whose combined faults and weaknesses have led us to a fading 7th position, we all acknowledge they're getting older and slower, why why WHY the fck are you and the other bloke advocating we stick with the same players....

"we have regressed dramatically this year"....yes, we have, but your acolyte tedeski seems to think that's not a problem, that as long as we stick with these same players, because....um....i dunno....they'll get better!???!!?!?!

as for claiming i want change for style's sake, i'll again cite the wins over port and hawthorn (rd 22), and suggest that playing open, attacking football can have positive results

as for throwing everything away, i have not said that at any point, nor do i expect a flag every year, i just do not see any sense or reason at all to eschew the idea of changing personnel simply because we won a flag with a large majority of this team two seasona ago
Yep, I mean properly. I actually agree with some of your earlier posts but not that last one when you seem to mention that playing a faster style will solve our problems. What I wanted to point out is why we have developed the game plan as we have and I think that it is still good for us in the short to medium term. And yes, I agree that we need some new blood to refresh up things but I just don't agree that suddenly we must play loose like Carlton does to succeed.

Again, I don't think we played that much differently in the 'good' games that we played - it's exactly the same game plan, it's just that because we made a lot more effective tackles and won more clearances (and less Hall-centric) and that helps our attack enormously. In fact, that's a prime example of why our existing gameplan is still effective. And I don't agree about your remark about 'Hibernation Footy'.

I'm not delusion about our list. It's a good list, but if anything, it had over-achieved in the past two years. In my view, due to our difficulty in getting top talent through the draft, even though we are relatively good at managing our list, we are always going to be around top 4-7 rather than the top 3. But we are a team that can go deep into the finals despite not having a top list.
 
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#44
Yep, I mean properly. I actually agree with some of your earlier posts but not that last one when you seem to mention that playing a faster style will solve our problems. What I wanted to point out is why we have developed the game plan as we have and I think that it is still good for us in the short to medium term. And yes, I agree that we need some new blood to refresh up things but I just don't agree that suddenly we must play loose like Carlton does to succeed.

Again, I don't think we played that much differently in the 'good' games that we played - it's exactly the same game plan, it's just that because we made a lot more effective tackles and won more clearances (and less Hall-centric) and that helps our attack enormously. In fact, that's a prime example of why our existing gameplan is still effective. And I don't agree about your remark about 'Hibernation Footy'.

I'm not delusion about our list. It's a good list, but if anything, it had over-achieved in the past two years. In my view, due to our difficulty in getting top talent through the draft, even though we are relatively good at managing our list, we are always going to be around top 4-7 rather than the top 3. But we are a team that can go deep into the finals despite not having a top list.
i'm well aware of why we have played the style of football of the past 4-5 years, which is a credit to roos and the players themselves
i am also aware of when we've become too "hall-centric", and it infuriates me, and i also have never subscribed to playing "loose like carlton"

but you're arguing against yourself by saying that we play better when we make more tackles and win more clearances, and our gameplan is still effective, when it's been proven time and time again this season that our gameplan is NOT as effective as it was, and that is backed up by the decline in such statistics as effective tackles and clearances won
and it is directly BECAUSE of that intense physical style of play that our older players really are showing signs of wear and tear, and of reduced capacity to maintain that physical style
whether you or anyone else likes it or not, we DO need to bring in new players, which will also mean an altered style
i'll sat it one more time: if we go into the first round of season 08 with the same 22 as played c'wood in the finals loss, we are commiting ourselves to a season of mediocrity and no finals football
 

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#45
i'm well aware of why we have played the style of football of the past 4-5 years, which is a credit to roos and the players themselves
i am also aware of when we've become too "hall-centric", and it infuriates me, and i also have never subscribed to playing "loose like carlton"

but you're arguing against yourself by saying that we play better when we make more tackles and win more clearances, and our gameplan is still effective, when it's been proven time and time again this season that our gameplan is NOT as effective as it was, and that is backed up by the decline in such statistics as effective tackles and clearances won
and it is directly BECAUSE of that intense physical style of play that our older players really are showing signs of wear and tear, and of reduced capacity to maintain that physical style
whether you or anyone else likes it or not, we DO need to bring in new players, which will also mean an altered style
i'll sat it one more time: if we go into the first round of season 08 with the same 22 as played c'wood in the finals loss, we are commiting ourselves to a season of mediocrity and no finals football
Firstly, we can't go in with the same 22 as we did against collingwood because we traded dempster and schneider. Secondly, we were only a few behinds away from a top 4 four finish this year. Are there players that I think are underperforming that should be dropped? Yes. Do I think that we could have played better this year? Yes. Do I think that we should dramamtically change our style? No. A few changes will be nice, but that would be done through a change of players rather than game plan.

There is a preception that we kick a astonishing low amount of goals - you will be surprised that for all the teams that played in the finals, only Geelong and Port Adelaide have kicked signficantly more goals (average) then we have. West Coast, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Kangaroos, Adelaide are all on the 13/14 goal mark.

Judging from your remarks, you seem to have thought that we endured a mediocre season, but in reality, 5 more behinds (or three more goals) would have seen us finish second. A match-up against Hawthorn and Port in the finals might have seen us in the Grand Final. (if we had met Adelaide in either 2005 or 2006, we wouldn't have made the Grand Finals - match-ups have a lot to do with results in finals footy.)

Look, I agree with you that we need some new blood in the team. We may need to changed our playing positions a bit to get a bit more creativity in the midfield and better delivery into the 50 and to get more involvement from our youngster, but completely writing-off our gameplan just because we are a mere 3 goals (or 5 behinds) away from being second is a bit over the top (if anything, with the injuries and underperforming players we've had, the game plan kept us in the hunt).

Small modifications to our game plan may do wonders but big changes are not necessary.
 
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#46
Firstly, we can't go in with the same 22 as we did against collingwood because we traded dempster and schneider. Secondly, we were only a few behinds away from a top 4 four finish this year. Are there players that I think are underperforming that should be dropped? Yes. Do I think that we could have played better this year? Yes. Do I think that we should dramamtically change our style? No. A few changes will be nice, but that would be done through a change of players rather than game plan.

There is a preception that we kick a astonishing low amount of goals - you will be surprised that for all the teams that played in the finals, only Geelong and Port Adelaide have kicked signficantly more goals (average) then we have. West Coast, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Kangaroos, Adelaide are all on the 13/14 goal mark.

Judging from your remarks, you seem to have thought that we endured a mediocre season, but in reality, 5 more behinds (or three more goals) would have seen us finish second. A match-up against Hawthorn and Port in the finals might have seen us in the Grand Final. (if we had met Adelaide in either 2005 or 2006, we wouldn't have made the Grand Finals - match-ups have a lot to do with results in finals footy.)

Look, I agree with you that we need some new blood in the team. We may need to changed our playing positions a bit to get a bit more creativity in the midfield and better delivery into the 50 and to get more involvement from our youngster, but completely writing-off our gameplan just because we are a mere 3 goals (or 5 behinds) away from being second is a bit over the top (if anything, with the injuries and underperforming players we've had, the game plan kept us in the hunt).

Small modifications to our game plan may do wonders but big changes are not necessary.
but you cannot persist with the argument "just five more behinds" etc etc, because those five behinds are missed shots at goal, and therefore come back to a failing in basic footy skills

basically, it's hypothetical, you cannot base an argument on "what ifs"
the results are as they are, and we finished 7th and were mediocre....the only reason we hung on to a top 8 spot at all was due to the lack of quality behind us

as things stand, we are an ordinary team, we are not a genuine contender for 2008, we weren't a contender in 2007....
yes, schneider and dempster are gone, but on their last games as swans, they'd have been lucky to be in the starting 22 for round 1 2008, as far as i see it
 

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#47
but you cannot persist with the argument "just five more behinds" etc etc, because those five behinds are missed shots at goal, and therefore come back to a failing in basic footy skills

basically, it's hypothetical, you cannot base an argument on "what ifs"
the results are as they are, and we finished 7th and were mediocre....the only reason we hung on to a top 8 spot at all was due to the lack of quality behind us

as things stand, we are an ordinary team, we are not a genuine contender for 2008, we weren't a contender in 2007....
yes, schneider and dempster are gone, but on their last games as swans, they'd have been lucky to be in the starting 22 for round 1 2008, as far as i see it
Yep, exactly right and the quicker everyone starts to admit this fact, the better.
 

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#49
Schnieder hasn't really gone on with it after a great rookie year, but I'd much rather have him than not. Dempster had some good games last year and is a beautiful kick - in fact they both are in the top 5 or 6 kicks of the team now that I think about it. Mattner is a very similar player to Dempster, just a bit more mature. I bet they both go on to have good careers with the saints.
 
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