Club Focus St Kilda 2020 - Crouch, Frawley, McKernan, Higgins, Allison, Highmore

[Lore]

This is a Saints-specific version of the player contracts & statistics spreadsheet pinned to the top of this forum. It summarises your players' contract situations, experience, ages and heights. The data is from footywire, and the spreadsheet will update itself when footywire is updated. It may contain some errors, I do not have the ability to update them so we just have to deal with what footywire gives us. It's the best we can do for the moment.





According to this data, St Kilda are:
- 2nd tallest, averaging 189.3cm
- 4th heaviest, averaging 86.9kg
- 7th oldest with an average age of 24.2 years
- 15th most experienced, averaging 62.4 career games


Your picks in the first five rounds of the 2019 national draft are:
1st round pick (tied to St Kilda - currently pick 4)
4th round pick (tied to Gold Coast - currently pick 55)
4th round pick (tied to West Coast - currently pick 69)
5th round pick (tied to St Kilda - currently pick 76)


To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.


Who retires, who is traded, and who is re-signed?

What do you see as the gaps in the list? How could those gaps be filled? Via trade or from the draft?

What will it take to get it all done, given the current trade and draft value on hand?

 

[Lore]

Not a lot of picks, not a lot of free agents out of contract, nothing else much wrong with your height, age or experience. Seem to have a bit of cash to throw at someone though. So where are the gaps, Saints fans? Who do you want?

 

[exxcessivve]

What's going on with Nick Coffield? Hasn't played much this year and thought he was pretty decent in 2018.

 

[bird_man]

What's going on with Nick Coffield? Hasn't played much this year and thought he was pretty decent in 2018.

Took a while to get going. Was tried in the midfield as well as forward in the VFL. No surprise he found a bit of form when they played him across half back. Back in the senior side and looks likely to play out the year there now.

 

[stfan]

What's going on with Nick Coffield? Hasn't played much this year and thought he was pretty decent in 2018.

Was bottom age when recruited and is still only 19yrs 8 months old.

Has looked quite good when coming back in recently, as has Hunter Clark.

Battle who was also bottom age (is now 20 yrs and 10 months) when taken hit his straps this year and has played very well till his injury.

 

[citizen-erased]

Not a lot of picks, not a lot of free agents out of contract, nothing else much wrong with your height, age or experience. Seem to have a bit of cash to throw at someone though. So where are the gaps, Saints fans? Who do you want?

Depth and the quality of their top 5 would be areas to address.

They'd be behind all other Vic clubs for attracting top end talent onto their list as ready made improvements.

 

[exxcessivve]

Was bottom age when recruited and is still only 19yrs 8 months old.

Has looked quite good when coming back in recently, as has Hunter Clark.

Battle who was also bottom age (is now 20 yrs and 10 months) when taken hit his straps this year and has played very well till his injury.

Yeah I was just confused earlier this year to notice he wasn't in the team much. It's been great to see how well Battle has been this year.

 

[joop]

Someone please take Newnes

 

[Burtman]

Was bottom age when recruited and is still only 19yrs 8 months old.

Has looked quite good when coming back in recently, as has Hunter Clark.

Battle who was also bottom age (is now 20 yrs and 10 months) when taken hit his straps this year and has played very well till his injury.

You can’t recruit players at bottom Age, have to be 18 or turning 18 in their draft year, special exemptions have only been made maybe once or twice

 

[Off Tap]

I hope they sort their club out as I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Saints.

Not having picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year makes it hard to attract anyone of substance to the club unless they want to give up 2020 picks.

 

[bird_man]

The list clearly needs some work but it's hardly a basket case for the coach coming in.

Marshall, Billings, Gresham, Battle, Clark, King, Coffield. That's a pretty good core of young kids coming through. Need to add around that.

Get rid of the dead wood and get back into the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Use pick 3 or 4 on the best midfielder.

Obviously the money is there and a FA or two would make a huge difference to the side, but that's clearly easier said than done. I think we need to see some clear improvement before the club can attract a big name.

 

[Dede]

If we can't land a big name keep digging for gold lions showed You can get depth on the cheap..

Brodie for 3rd
Draper for future 33rd

 

[stfan]

You can’t recruit players at bottom Age, have to be 18 or turning 18 in their draft year, special exemptions have only been made maybe once or twice

I do not know what you mean by your usage of Bottom Age.

Bottom Age by my usage is that the the person was at the younger end of the players that become eligible to be drafted each year. So of the pool each year of youngest players taken that can be come eligible they can be different in age by 12 months.

For example Bytel was drafted a year after Coffield, but while Coffield is now 19 yrs 8 months old Bytel is only 4 months younger than him at 19 yrs and 4m.

Effectively they are the same age, but Coffield was taken a year earlier and is young compared to much of his cohort.


A player born is say Jan may be upto 12 months older than others in his cohort and physically at that age that will be a big advantage for several years till all players have matured. This includes aspects such as aerobic capacity, core strength etc.

Clark is older than Coffield by a good margin and so it is not a surprise that his development is ahead of Coffield's.



With Battle he was also doing VCE in his first year with St Kilda and that meant limited training in his first year. So he is really a second year player rather than a third year player and so it was most pleasing to see hi have such a good year as a key defender this year (Currently is 20 yrs 10 months).

 

[Burtman]

I do not know what you mean by your usage of Bottom Age.

Bottom Age by my usage is that the the person was at the younger end of the players that become eligible to be drafted each year. So of the pool each year of youngest players taken that can be come eligible they can be different in age by 12 months.

For example Bytel was drafted a year after Coffield, but while Coffield is now 19 yrs 8 months old Bytel is only 4 months younger than him at 19 yrs and 4m.

Effectively they are the same age, but Coffield was taken a year earlier and is young compared to much of his cohort.


A player born is say Jan may be upto 12 months older than others in his cohort and physically at that age that will be a big advantage for several years till all players have matured. This includes aspects such as aerobic capacity, core strength etc.

Clark is older than Coffield by a good margin and so it is not a surprise that his development is ahead of Coffield's.



With Battle he was also doing VCE in his first year with St Kilda and that meant limited training in his first year. So he is really a second year player rather than a third year player and so it was most pleasing to see hi have such a good year as a key defender this year (Currently is 20 yrs 10 months).

That’s not what bottom age means. Clubs used to be able to draft 17 year olds before the afl stepped in and raised the draft age. From memory Matthew bate has been the only player allowed to be drafted who was still 17 at the end of the year. Being born later in the year does not make you bottom age.

 

[Obeanie1]

It will be interesting if large scale changes are made this season or does the new coach have a good look at a few before a clean out occurs.

If Ratten gets the gig he has already had 12 months to rate who stays and who goes.

 

[stfan]

That’s not what bottom age means. Clubs used to be able to draft 17 year olds before the afl stepped in and raised the draft age. From memory Matthew bate has been the only player allowed to be drafted who was still 17 at the end of the year. Being born later in the year does not make you bottom age.

Well that is what you mean. It is not what I mean. What age players used to be able to be taken at is pretty pointless when we are discussing players of today. So current rules is what discussion should reflect and so bottom age of draft players now is clearly talking about players under the rules they were drafted under.

Otherwise by your logic bottom age could refer to the ages of players like Timmy Watson or Banger Harvey etc.

 

[stfan]

It will be interesting if large scale changes are made this season or does the new coach have a good look at a few before a clean out occurs.

If Ratten gets the gig he has already had 12 months to rate who stays and who goes.

How much of a clean-out that can happen is limited by what the club can get in. In part that will also be determined by how many of our list that other clubs may be interested in acquiring and at what price.

I desperately hope that the Saints do not chase olds FAs like Goldstein. They may be gettable, but they will not assist in a proper rebuild/rejig.

We also do not need a complete rebuild and there are 26 players on the list who are under 24, but we do need genuine classy mids who can use the ball well.

The following players do give you something to work with:

Webster Battle Geary
Coffield Carlisle Wilkie (Roberton if given the all clear)
Billings Steele ------
Membrey Bruce------
Gresham King Lonie

Marshall ------ --------

Clark Bytel ------- ---------

Every other player is tradeable. Quite a number are worth retaining, but if they can help to get the players we need, or more draft picks, more then so be it.

 

[Burtman]

Well that is what you mean. It is not what I mean. What age players used to be able to be taken at is pretty pointless when we are discussing players of today. So current rules is what discussion should reflect and so bottom age of draft players now is clearly talking about players under the rules they were drafted under.

Otherwise by your logic bottom age could refer to the ages of players like Timmy Watson or Banger Harvey etc.

Hence there is no bottom age. Everyone who is drafted is at least 18 by dec 31st. Bottom age has always been players who are 17 for that whole year. Bottom ages are allowed to play in the championships, so yes it is still a term that is used in today’s footy. The players you mentioned are slightly younger than others drafted at the time, not bottom age

 

[stfan]

Hence there is no bottom age. Everyone who is drafted is at least 18 by dec 31st. Bottom age has always been players who are 17 for that whole year. Bottom ages are allowed to play in the championships, so yes it is still a term that is used in today’s footy. The players you mentioned are slightly younger than others drafted at the time, not bottom age

I do not know why you are choosing to be so obtuse.

Clearly I meant that he was young for his draft cohort. Coffield was a bottom age (young) player for his draft cohort.

Bottom age is just a descriptive term. In lower cohorts there will be bottom age players too.

 

[Lore]

I do not know why you are choosing to be so obtuse.

Clearly I meant that he was young for his draft cohort. Coffield was a bottom age (young) player for his draft cohort.

Bottom age is just a descriptive term. In lower cohorts there will be bottom age players too.

While you might have meant that, “bottom age” is a common phrase which is used around draft discussions. It refers to players who are playing in the under 18s competitions but are not eligible to be drafted until the year after. Using it to mean something different is very confusing.

 

[Obeanie1]

How much of a clean-out that can happen is limited by what the club can get in. In part that will also be determined by how many of our list that other clubs may be interested in acquiring and at what price.

I desperately hope that the Saints do not chase olds FAs like Goldstein. They may be gettable, but they will not assist in a proper rebuild/rejig.

We also do not need a complete rebuild and there are 26 players on the list who are under 24, but we do need genuine classy mids who can use the ball well.

The following players do give you something to work with:

Webster Battle Geary
Coffield Carlisle Wilkie (Roberton if given the all clear)
Billings Steele ------
Membrey Bruce------
Gresham King Lonie

Marshall ------ --------

Clark Bytel ------- ---------

Every other player is tradeable. Quite a number are worth retaining, but if they can help to get the players we need, or more draft picks, more then so be it.

Do they trade their top pick for multiple later picks possibly!

Move on an Acres for a late 30's / 40's pick.

Hit the draft and also target free agents to soak up the cap for two years.

 

[stfan]

Do they trade their top pick for multiple later picks possibly!

I would prefer not as what the Saints most lack is the cream. The guns. We need A-Graders. The list has ample of the depth to good players.

To make a real difference we need some real class. Several more middling players will not have that big an effect.

 

[stfan]

Move on an Acres for a late 30's / 40's pick.

Yes I think the club will look to try and trade some players out, either for picks or other players.

Hit the draft and also target free agents to soak up the cap for two years.

Problem is that there are not a lot gettable FAs that would make a difference.

Some say we are chasing Goldstein. But I do not see the sense in that as both cannot play No1 ruck and to not allow Marshall to grow further into that position by not playing him would be stupid.


A lateral idea could be to throw a relatively good offer at Mabior Chol (Rookie) who is an UFA. As a forward/ruck to compliment Marshall. Poaching someone like him would make a lot more sense to me than someone like Goldstein.

 

[Obeanie1]

Yes I think the club will look to try and trade some players out, either for picks or other players.





Problem is that there are not a lot gettable FAs that would make a difference.

Some say we are chasing Goldstein. But I do not see the sense in that as both cannot play No1 ruck and to not allow Marshall to grow further into that position by not playing him would be stupid.


A lateral idea could be to throw a relatively good offer at Mabior Chol (Rookie) who is an UFA. As a forward/ruck to compliment Marshall. Poaching someone like him would make a lot more sense to me than someone like Goldstein.

Stevens under contract for 2020 will want a trade, maybe a mid to late 2nd to a team contending.

The only reason to get Goldstein and also the young Essendon ruck is if you trade Marshall out for something special.

 

[stfan]

if you trade Marshall out for something special.

Personally I do not want Goldstein. Getting anyone in of his age in is pure madness to me. Secondly he is a No 1 Ruck and that would hamper and not assist in Marshall's development. Having two genuine No1 rucks does not normally end well for one of them.


If they traded Marshall out the fans may well burn down Moorabbin! He has been the main beacon of this season and after the Hannas flop, if they traded Marshall to say that it would not go down well is a vast understatement. His rate of improvement this year has been stellar. He is likely to win, or go close to winning, the B+F this year and many argue that he is currently our most important player.

There is no way that he would be traded. It would take a godfather offer and I doubt any club would stump up enough.


Steven (not Stevens) no one knows about. Rumours abound that the Cats want him. He is contracted but having missed most of this season with mental health issues any trade would be problematic. He is evidently back training at the club, but is not yet playing.

If one accepts that we need more good young, to mid aged players, then if the offer is good you would expect that the club would look at it. But would the offer be good? Probably not. Though if Ablett retired at the end of this season the Cats may be more tempted.