Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2

[Atomboy]

Part 2 !!!!

How good ??!!.

 

[north_lad]

Funny that OP started this almost 4 years ago to the day with one comment being "arguably furthest position away from a flag". In that time, OP's team:

18th, 18th, 17th, 17th, currently 17th

That looks like steady improvement to me

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

They never did have the makings of a varsity athlete.

 

[PJays]

Of relevance to St Kilda's ongoing irrelevance is their home stadium.

This is also relevant to the ongoing irrelevance of other clubs whose fans regularly make appearances in this sad thread.

Marvel tenants have been utter failures. 2 flags from 6 grand final appearances in 25 years.

Which Marvel tenants have won a flag or come close?

Essendon 2000 and 2001- that team was so good, they could've been forced to play home games in Antarctica and still won a flag.

Subsequently rubbish. Famously no finals wins since 2004.

St Kilda 2009 and 2010 were the beneficiaries of generous draft concessions that don't exist anymore. In no mans land ever since.

Dogs won their fairytale 2016 flag from 7th.

Dogs in 2021 when covid changed the rules of engagement. No crowds. Finals outside of Melbourne. Arguably that shouldn't even count for the purposes of this discussion.

North and Carlton were great in the 90s. 3 premierships and 6 grand finals in that decade. Since moving to Marvel, no flags and no grand finals in 25 years. And many wooden spoons.

Marvel is a graveyard.

That's just a reality.

The question is why.

I think there are many factors contributing to the explanation but interested in other's thoughts.

 

[north_lad]

Of relevance to St Kilda's ongoing irrelevance is their home stadium.

This is also relevant to the ongoing irrelevance of other clubs whose fans regularly make appearances in this sad thread.

Marvel tenants have been utter failures. 2 flags from 6 grand final appearances in 25 years.

Which Marvel tenants have won a flag or come close?

Essendon 2000 and 2001- that team was so good, they could've been forced to play home games in Antarctica and still won a flag.

Subsequently rubbish. Famously no finals wins since 2004.

St Kilda 2009 and 2010 were the beneficiaries of generous draft concessions that don't exist anymore. In no mans land ever since.

Dogs won their fairytale 2016 flag from 7th.

Dogs in 2021 when covid changed the rules of engagement. No crowds. Finals outside of Melbourne. Arguably that shouldn't even count for the purposes of this discussion.

North and Carlton were great in the 90s. 3 premierships and 6 grand finals in that decade. Since moving to Marvel, no flags and no grand finals in 25 years. And many wooden spoons.

Marvel is a graveyard.

That's just a reality.

The question is why.

I think there are many factors contributing to the explanation but interested in other's thoughts.

All the teams that play home games there suck ass it's not that deep

 

[north_lad]

Actually that's unfair on the Bullies they've been pretty consistently good since Marvel opened

 

[PJays]

All the teams that play home games there suck ass it's not that deep

So it's just a coincidence?

Over 400 seasons across 25 years is a fair sample size. (25 years by 16-18 teams).

And it just happens that 5 of 16-18 teams have something important in common, and they are all below average.

Nah, there's more to it than that.

Marvel is a part of the failure story of these 5 clubs. That's clear.

What's debatable, and what I'd like to hear views on, is:

- How much of a role does Marvel specifically play in these 5 teams long term lack of success? Is it a major factor or a minor factor and why?

- What factors specifically make it harder to win when you're playing from Marvel?

 

[PJays]

Actually that's unfair on the Bullies they've been pretty consistently good since Marvel opened

11 finals appearances in 25 seasons.

Home and away record 274 wins, 4 draws, 279 losses.

1 flag. 1 runner up. No minor premierships. 1 wooden spoon.

Only 3 top 4 home and away finishes.

Better than the other Marvel tenants. But not "good". About the AFL average.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Of relevance to St Kilda's ongoing irrelevance is their home stadium.

This is also relevant to the ongoing irrelevance of other clubs whose fans regularly make appearances in this sad thread.

Marvel tenants have been utter failures. 2 flags from 6 grand final appearances in 25 years.

Which Marvel tenants have won a flag or come close?

Essendon 2000 and 2001- that team was so good, they could've been forced to play home games in Antarctica and still won a flag.

Subsequently rubbish. Famously no finals wins since 2004.

St Kilda 2009 and 2010 were the beneficiaries of generous draft concessions that don't exist anymore. In no mans land ever since.

Dogs won their fairytale 2016 flag from 7th.

Dogs in 2021 when covid changed the rules of engagement. No crowds. Finals outside of Melbourne. Arguably that shouldn't even count for the purposes of this discussion.

North and Carlton were great in the 90s. 3 premierships and 6 grand finals in that decade. Since moving to Marvel, no flags and no grand finals in 25 years. And many wooden spoons.

Marvel is a graveyard.

That's just a reality.

The question is why.

I think there are many factors contributing to the explanation but interested in other's thoughts.

For Carlton, Essendon, North - hubris. Dominated the late 90s. Blues and Dons thought it could continue forever as big 4 teams with all the advantages that brings. North thought they could punch above their weight forever by being "innovative".

In reality all three made bad decision after bad decision, refused to learn from the successful teams of the 21st century. Were mired in late 90s football when other teams moved on.

Quite possibly moving to Marvel was one of those bad decisions.

 

[EconomicDecline]

That looks like steady improvement to me

You’ll be in the 8 in 20 to 30 years at that pace.

 

[north_lad]

You’ll be in the 8 in 20 to 30 years at that pace.

You beauty

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Of relevance to St Kilda's ongoing irrelevance is their home stadium.

This is also relevant to the ongoing irrelevance of other clubs whose fans regularly make appearances in this sad thread.

Marvel tenants have been utter failures. 2 flags from 6 grand final appearances in 25 years.

Which Marvel tenants have won a flag or come close?

Essendon 2000 and 2001- that team was so good, they could've been forced to play home games in Antarctica and still won a flag.

Subsequently rubbish. Famously no finals wins since 2004.

St Kilda 2009 and 2010 were the beneficiaries of generous draft concessions that don't exist anymore. In no mans land ever since.

Dogs won their fairytale 2016 flag from 7th.

Dogs in 2021 when covid changed the rules of engagement. No crowds. Finals outside of Melbourne. Arguably that shouldn't even count for the purposes of this discussion.

North and Carlton were great in the 90s. 3 premierships and 6 grand finals in that decade. Since moving to Marvel, no flags and no grand finals in 25 years. And many wooden spoons.

Marvel is a graveyard.

That's just a reality.

The question is why.

I think there are many factors contributing to the explanation but interested in other's thoughts.

It’s not that deep. All bar the dogs have been badly run, critically they’ve all been headed by terrible recruiters.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Part 2 !!!!

How good ??!!.

Part 3 will be certified legendary

 

[Daka]

Part 3 will be certified legendary

No idea why their is a part 2 of this thread it was made back in 2021?

 

[The Nostradamus]

No idea why their is a part 2 of this thread it was made back in 2021?

It reached the maximum amount of posts in a thread lol

Around 10k

 

[Mr.X]

To be honest I would be more pissed off having a list that’s capable of contending but instead have been doing nothing for the last couple years like Carlton

Peed off and worried about the blues, for sure.

Voss should turn it around, Ross on the other hand may be finding it tough

Yes,

 

[janty]

I don't even know if they are trying to win or lose games at this stage.

 

[Outtatym]

Rough couple of months coming up.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

I don't even know if they are trying to win or lose games at this stage.

Trying to win, we lack key forward and a gun mid.

Unless we go balls to the wall attack on the ball and in space, we cannot generate good 50 entries.

However due to lacking said forward structure the moment our ball movement gets slowed down we cannot score due to missing key talls, amd as a result we turn the ball over a lot.

The myth thay St kilda floods needs to die, the reality is St Kilda is a very flawed team with obvious flaws

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Are Ross Lyon coached teams a good environment for players to become superstars? Does the style and methodology lend itself to it?

The style of just so scrappy and messy, that it's hard to see a young guy breaking out and becoming a superstar player.

History tells us that he's good at tactics to enable pre-made superstars (Riewoldt, Hayes, Pavlich, Fyfe, etc.) but I'm not sure many become superstars under his tutelage?

It just seems that flair, creativity and brashness doesn't flourish under him. Average workmanlike guys often become very good workmanlike guys under him, but I don't feel anyone really becomes a superstar game breaker under him. Maybe Walters is the exception?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Fair clip from Hardwick

Warranted I might add

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Part 3 will be certified legendary

Part 3 is the flag bit.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Dimma witha whack Saints

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Dimma with the KO punch and Ross the loser is on the canvas for the 10 count.

 

[BigPond101]

What did he say ?