Analysis St Kilda - List Analysis 2023

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maanco

maanco

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Oct 24, 2011
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St Kilda
Bit of Sunday Arvo List Analysis.

Ranked in Position from best to Worst.

DEFENCE
(11 Players - 14 Total that can play in defense)
Key Defenders
Callum Wilke (27)
Dougal Howard (27)
Josh Battle (24)
Zaine Cordy (26)
James Van Es (18)

General Defenders
Liam Stocker (23)
Jimmy Webster (29)
Ben Paton (24)
Tom Highmore (25)

Offensive Defenders
Jack Sinclair (28)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (20)

Players that would demand a spot in the 2023 Grand Final Teams.
Cal Wilke (27)
Jack Sinclair (28)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (20)

Comments:
  • Intercepting Lockdown Key Defender
    • Although Ranking Elite, at 191cm Wilke (age 27) isn't big enough to fulfill this role against monster 200+cm Forwards, and needs the support of a Monster Key Defender.
    • Dougal rates above Average as a Key Defender However frustrates with decision making.
    • Cordy rates Below Average in every respect can he improve on his good form?
    • Battle is more of a Intercept Defender rather than a lockdown Defender, and his stats suggest as such. He is also undersized.
  • Lacks immediate Depth Offensive Defender Depth - Windhager, Clark Or Hill could provide backup in the event of Injury.
MIDFIELD
(11 Players - 17 Total that can play midfield)
Inside Mids
Jack Steele (27)
Brad Crouch (29)
Paddy Dow (24)
Zak Jones (28 - with the body of a 35yr old)
Seb Ross (29)
Hunter Clark (24)
Marcus Windhager (19)


Outside Mid/Flanker
Mason Wood (29)
Brad Hill (29)
Daniel McKenzie (26 - Injury issues)
Ryan Byrnes (21)

RUCK
(3 Players - 5 Total that can play/pinch hit ruck)
Rowan Marshall (27)
Tom Campbell (31)
Max Heath. (20)

Players that would demand 1 of the 46 spots in the 2023 Grand Final Teams.
Rowan Marshall (27)
Jack Steele (27)
Brad Crouch (29)
Wood (29)
Hill (29)


Comments:
  • Ruck Depth - Not a priority, given there are 5 players on the list that can play fulltime ruck.
  • Goal Kicking Bull - I'm confident Paddy Dow can fulfill this position.
  • Silky Midfielder - Pre-Injury Hunter Clark had the poise to be an A Grade Mid. Can he fulfil his potential?
  • Ageing Wingers
    • As others are player other positions there appears to be a Lacking of Developing Talent.
    • Byrnes lacks the silk to be an elite winger and currently rates below average.
    • Expect Nasiah, Henry and Phillipou to spend some minutes playing wing.

Forwards
(9 Players - 15 Total that can play Forward)
Key Forward
Max King (22)
Cooper Sharman (22)
Anthony Caminiti (19)
Jack Hayes (26)
Tim Membrey (28)
Isaac Keeler (18)

Small Forward
Jack Higgins (24)
Dan Butler (26)

MID/FWD
Mitch Owens (19)

Best position unclear.
Liam Henry - MID/FWD?
Mattaes Phillipou - MID/FWD?
Olli Hotton - MID/FWD?
Matthew Allison - FWD/DEF/WING??
Angus McLennan (Cat B)
Liam O'Connell (Cat B) MID/FWD?

Players that would demand 1 of the 46 spots in the 2023 Grand Final Teams.
  • Max King (22)
  • Mitch Owens (19)

Comments:
  • Key Forwards Are stacked with promising Developing Players.
    • Expect Membrey to be pushed out.
  • Small Forward
    • Expect Henry and Hill to play Forward - Could this be his best position?
    • Owens is oversized however could fulfil the position.
    • Could

Priority at the Draft
  1. Key Position Defender
  2. Goal Kicking Pressure Forward
  3. Wing
  4. Midfielder
 
When you Look at the best 22 you see why Gresham and Billings were surplus to requirements.

We have good depth, a young Forward Line, Experienced backline and a slow Midfield.


Best 22

Zaine Cordy, Callum Wilke Jimmy Webster
Jack Sinclair, Josh Battle, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera

Rowan Marshall, Jack Steele, Brad Crouch
Bradley Hill, Paddy Dow, Mason Wood

Liam Henry, Cooper Sharman, Mitch Owens
Jack Higgins, Max King, Dan Butler


Hunter Clark, Sebastian Ross, Marcus Windhager, Mattaes Phillipou, Liam Stocker (Sub)

EMG: Tim Membrey, Jack Hayes, Daniel McKenzie, Zac Jones, Dougal Howard, Others


Weakness
Spread (i.e. slow midfield) - As noticed during the Giants Saints Game - Giants covering more ground with their Midfield.
Connection - i.e. Kicking Efficency inside 50.
Inexperienced Forward line.


Strength
Team Defense and Pressure Game
Wing Defense
Turnover Offense
Age Demographic.
 
maanco said:
When you Look at the best 22 you see why Gresham and Billings were surplus to requirements.

We have good depth, a young Forward Line, Experienced backline and a slow Midfield.


Best 22

Zaine Cordy, Callum Wilke Jimmy Webster
Jack Sinclair, Josh Battle, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera

Rowan Marshall, Jack Steele, Brad Crouch
Bradley Hill, Paddy Dow, Mason Wood

Liam Henry, Cooper Sharman, Mitch Owens
Jack Higgins, Max King, Dan Butler


Hunter Clark, Sebastian Ross, Marcus Windhager, Mattaes Phillipou, Liam Stocker (Sub)

EMG: Tim Membrey, Jack Hayes, Daniel McKenzie, Zac Jones, Dougal Howard, Others


Weakness
Spread (i.e. slow midfield) - As noticed during the Giants Saints Game - Giants covering more ground with their Midfield.
Connection - i.e. Kicking Efficency inside 50.
Inexperienced Forward line.


Strength
Team Defense and Pressure Game
Wing Defense
Turnover Offense
Age Demographic.
Click to expand...


That midfield is still our weakest area. Steele and Crouch are good but not elite. Jones and Ross are just about done. Dow replaces Ross probably. Henry takes Gresham's spot. We really need some kids like Windhager to step up. We really need mids and wings/running HBs. The defence is pretty solid and the way we play we don't need 3 elite tall defenders.
 

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gringo2011 said:
That midfield is still our weakest area. Steele and Crouch are good but not elite. Jones and Ross are just about done. Dow replaces Ross probably. Henry takes Gresham's spot. We really need some kids like Windhager to step up. We really need mids and wings/running HBs. The defence is pretty solid and the way we play we don't need 3 elite tall defenders.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree, that we need to improve our midfield. Players that can spread after clearance to the right positions and have good foot skills should be the priority.
Maybe Windhager can be that player?


Regarding kpd depth it depends how much we rate Van Es, because we lack depth and age demographic in that area.
 
Backline is in a strong position.

Mids are fine, just unspectacular. Need to start getting the kids in there because we've got limited years left with the regulars.

Forward line is one King injury and one small forward injury away from being woeful again. Whether Membrey is healthy or not next year will made a significant difference here.
 
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maanco said:
I tend to agree, that we need to improve our midfield. Players that can spread after clearance to the right positions and have good foot skills should be the priority.
Maybe Windhager can be that player?


Regarding kpd depth it depends how much we rate Van Es, because we lack depth and age demographic in that area.
Click to expand...
I’d love us to trial Caminiti as a defender in the pre season…he has the athleticism, size and aggression to excel in that role.
It would also help fill a void!
I’m hoping Hayes gets a good run at it, certainly deserves it after a horror 2023.
A lot of people have written off Jones but I haven’t YET.
He and Dow would potentially give us a different look in the midfield..love to see Windhager reprise his run with role.
 
saintmike65 said:
I’d love us to trial Caminiti as a defender in the pre season…he has the athleticism, size and aggression to excel in that role.
It would also help fill a void!
I’m hoping Hayes gets a good run at it, certainly deserves it after a horror 2023.
A lot of people have written off Jones but I haven’t YET.
He and Dow would potentially give us a different look in the midfield..love to see Windhager reprise his run with role.
Click to expand...

Totally agree Mike. Caminiti and/or Hayes need to be trialled as key defenders to at least give us the option of swinging them back when required. Jones has a recent history of being injury prone, but surely he and the club are due a change of luck.

As you I stated add Jones, Dow, a fit and vibrant Steele an even a more ready Owens into the middle, we look a lot different than the dour midfield we rolled out this year. Clark also has all the potential in the world IF he can improve his speed and aerobic capacities. I worry he just doesnt have the drive required to improve his weaknesses.

I also agree with the OP we need to add balanced quick midfielders, small forwards and another key defender to the list. In a perfect world it would also be nice to add another young ruckman this year.
 
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saintmike65 said:
I’d love us to trial Caminiti as a defender in the pre season…he has the athleticism, size and aggression to excel in that role.
It would also help fill a void!
I’m hoping Hayes gets a good run at it, certainly deserves it after a horror 2023.
A lot of people have written off Jones but I haven’t YET.
He and Dow would potentially give us a different look in the midfield..love to see Windhager reprise his run with role.
Click to expand...
Caminiti as a defender could certainly work.
 
maanco said:
Bit of Sunday Arvo List Analysis.

Ranked in Position from best to Worst.

DEFENCE
(11 Players - 14 Total that can play in defense)
Key Defenders
Callum Wilke (27)
Dougal Howard (27)
Josh Battle (24)
Zaine Cordy (26)
James Van Es (18)

General Defenders
Liam Stocker (23)
Jimmy Webster (29)
Ben Paton (24)
Tom Highmore (25)

Offensive Defenders
Jack Sinclair (28)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (20)

Players that would demand a spot in the 2023 Grand Final Teams.
Cal Wilke (27)
Jack Sinclair (28)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (20)

Comments:
  • Intercepting Lockdown Key Defender
    • Although Ranking Elite, at 191cm Wilke (age 27) isn't big enough to fulfill this role against monster 200+cm Forwards, and needs the support of a Monster Key Defender.
    • Dougal rates above Average as a Key Defender However frustrates with decision making.
    • Cordy rates Below Average in every respect can he improve on his good form?
    • Battle is more of a Intercept Defender rather than a lockdown Defender, and his stats suggest as such. He is also undersized.
  • Lacks immediate Depth Offensive Defender Depth - Windhager, Clark Or Hill could provide backup in the event of Injury.
MIDFIELD
(11 Players - 17 Total that can play midfield)
Inside Mids
Jack Steele (27)
Brad Crouch (29)
Paddy Dow (24)
Zak Jones (28 - with the body of a 35yr old)
Seb Ross (29)
Hunter Clark (24)
Marcus Windhager (19)


Outside Mid/Flanker
Mason Wood (29)
Brad Hill (29)
Daniel McKenzie (26 - Injury issues)
Ryan Byrnes (21)

RUCK
(3 Players - 5 Total that can play/pinch hit ruck)
Rowan Marshall (27)
Tom Campbell (31)
Max Heath. (20)

Players that would demand 1 of the 46 spots in the 2023 Grand Final Teams.
Rowan Marshall (27)
Jack Steele (27)
Brad Crouch (29)
Wood (29)
Hill (29)


Comments:
  • Ruck Depth - Not a priority, given there are 5 players on the list that can play fulltime ruck.
  • Goal Kicking Bull - I'm confident Paddy Dow can fulfill this position.
  • Silky Midfielder - Pre-Injury Hunter Clark had the poise to be an A Grade Mid. Can he fulfil his potential?
  • Ageing Wingers
    • As others are player other positions there appears to be a Lacking of Developing Talent.
    • Byrnes lacks the silk to be an elite winger and currently rates below average.
    • Expect Nasiah, Henry and Phillipou to spend some minutes playing wing.

Forwards
(9 Players - 15 Total that can play Forward)
Key Forward
Max King (22)
Cooper Sharman (22)
Anthony Caminiti (19)
Jack Hayes (26)
Tim Membrey (28)
Isaac Keeler (18)

Small Forward
Jack Higgins (24)
Dan Butler (26)

MID/FWD
Mitch Owens (19)

Best position unclear.
Liam Henry - MID/FWD?
Mattaes Phillipou - MID/FWD?
Olli Hotton - MID/FWD?
Matthew Allison - FWD/DEF/WING??
Angus McLennan (Cat B)
Liam O'Connell (Cat B) MID/FWD?

Players that would demand 1 of the 46 spots in the 2023 Grand Final Teams.
  • Max King (22)
  • Mitch Owens (19)

Comments:
  • Key Forwards Are stacked with promising Developing Players.
    • Expect Membrey to be pushed out.
  • Small Forward
    • Expect Henry and Hill to play Forward - Could this be his best position?
    • Owens is oversized however could fulfil the position.
    • Could

Priority at the Draft
  1. Key Position Defender
  2. Goal Kicking Pressure Forward
  3. Wing
  4. Midfielder
Click to expand...
This is a very very good breakdown of our list. Not rose tinted or ridiculously negative. I’d probably break down the positions a bit more such as differentiating the mids who can play inside/outside vs the inside mid specialists. Also the true key forwards vs the second tall type
 
maanco said:
When you Look at the best 22 you see why Gresham and Billings were surplus to requirements.

We have good depth, a young Forward Line, Experienced backline and a slow Midfield.


Best 22

Zaine Cordy, Callum Wilke Jimmy Webster
Jack Sinclair, Josh Battle, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera

Rowan Marshall, Jack Steele, Brad Crouch
Bradley Hill, Paddy Dow, Mason Wood

Liam Henry, Cooper Sharman, Mitch Owens
Jack Higgins, Max King, Dan Butler


Hunter Clark, Sebastian Ross, Marcus Windhager, Mattaes Phillipou, Liam Stocker (Sub)

EMG: Tim Membrey, Jack Hayes, Daniel McKenzie, Zac Jones, Dougal Howard, Others


Weakness
Spread (i.e. slow midfield) - As noticed during the Giants Saints Game - Giants covering more ground with their Midfield.
Connection - i.e. Kicking Efficency inside 50.
Inexperienced Forward line.


Strength
Team Defense and Pressure Game
Wing Defense
Turnover Offense
Age Demographic.
Click to expand...
Good assessment mate, bit of work gone into that.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
This is a very very good breakdown of our list. Not rose tinted or ridiculously negative. I’d probably break down the positions a bit more such as differentiating the mids who can play inside/outside vs the inside mid specialists. Also the true key forwards vs the second tall type
Click to expand...
I wanted to do this. I also wanted to look at age demographics. But A man only has so much time haha

Your welcome to take my list and build on it. 🙂
 
I’d actually love to know what the list strategy is because it feels like a bit of a half rebuild ATM. We want to go the draft so we move on a 26 year old best 22 player but keep all the 27+ year old best 22’s. TBH I think we need to pick a side because if you’re going to the draft you want to do it with top 3-5 picks not praying for pick 21.

Like Ross says it’s won and lost in the midfield and we’re putting a hell of a lot of eggs in the Owens, Phillipou and Windhager baskets hoping at least two of them become the A grade mids we need. They also need to get there quickly before the 27+ year olds are on their last legs.

Overall we need more speed and skill in the team if that wasn’t obvious enough after our finals loss. I think we have enough to work with up forward and down back but none of it matters until we get our 3-4 A grade mids and without going to the bottom of the ladder to get them it’s going to be very interesting to see how we bring them in.
 
hayes said:
I’d actually love to know what the list strategy is because it feels like a bit of a half rebuild ATM. We want to go the draft so we move on a 26 year old best 22 player but keep all the 27+ year old best 22’s. TBH I think we need to pick a side because if you’re going to the draft you want to do it with top 3-5 picks not praying for pick 21.

Like Ross says it’s won and lost in the midfield and we’re putting a hell of a lot of eggs in the Owens, Phillipou and Windhager baskets hoping at least two of them become the A grade mids we need. They also need to get there quickly before the 27+ year olds are on their last legs.

Overall we need more speed and skill in the team if that wasn’t obvious enough after our finals loss. I think we have enough to work with up forward and down back but none of it matters until we get our 3-4 A grade mids and without going to the bottom of the ladder to get them it’s going to be very interesting to see how we bring them in.
Click to expand...


I think we are doing a Port Adelaide and doing a refresh on the fly while trying to compete for finals.
 

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hayes said:
I’d actually love to know what the list strategy is because it feels like a bit of a half rebuild ATM. We want to go the draft so we move on a 26 year old best 22 player but keep all the 27+ year old best 22’s. TBH I think we need to pick a side because if you’re going to the draft you want to do it with top 3-5 picks not praying for pick 21.

Like Ross says it’s won and lost in the midfield and we’re putting a hell of a lot of eggs in the Owens, Phillipou and Windhager baskets hoping at least two of them become the A grade mids we need. They also need to get there quickly before the 27+ year olds are on their last legs.

Overall we need more speed and skill in the team if that wasn’t obvious enough after our finals loss. I think we have enough to work with up forward and down back but none of it matters until we get our 3-4 A grade mids and without going to the bottom of the ladder to get them it’s going to be very interesting to see how we bring them in.
Click to expand...
At a guess:
- The 27+ year olds have limited trade value but important output for team competitiveness, e.g. Ross. We keep them as losing them only sends us backwards to North Melbourne territory.

- The Best 18-25 players can be moved on at the right trade price, e.g. Gresham.

- The list cloggers with limited team performance contribution and limited trade value need to go, especially when on a good wage. E.g. Billings.

All of the above is done to:
1) Maximize Draft capital and bring in talented kids around Owens/King/NAS/Pou/Windy; and
2) Keep *some experience to shield these young players to develop them properly, set standards and not throw them to the wolves like, again, North Melbourne did.

It's definitely a list reset, just not a full tank mode.
 
hayes said:
I’d actually love to know what the list strategy is because it feels like a bit of a half rebuild ATM. We want to go the draft so we move on a 26 year old best 22 player but keep all the 27+ year old best 22’s. TBH I think we need to pick a side because if you’re going to the draft you want to do it with top 3-5 picks not praying for pick 21.

Like Ross says it’s won and lost in the midfield and we’re putting a hell of a lot of eggs in the Owens, Phillipou and Windhager baskets hoping at least two of them become the A grade mids we need. They also need to get there quickly before the 27+ year olds are on their last legs.

Overall we need more speed and skill in the team if that wasn’t obvious enough after our finals loss. I think we have enough to work with up forward and down back but none of it matters until we get our 3-4 A grade mids and without going to the bottom of the ladder to get them it’s going to be very interesting to see how we bring them in.
Click to expand...
They've stated the strategy is to build around Max's demographic.
Older players who don't add leadership or high quality standards/output are undesirable.
 
ScrappyDo said:
They've stated the strategy is to build around Max's demographic.
Older players who don't add leadership or high quality standards/output are undesirable.
Click to expand...


I think that we had a plan to build a level of solid professional GOP talent through trades and then bring in high end trades and FAs after moving on a layer of unprofessional GOPs. Then went to market and found that attracting top talent to a bland list isn't as easy as they had thought.

Realised that Owens and Nas types looked better than anything that we were likely to trade for and started to try to swap out some of the good but limited players for draft capital to try to add more talent at the draft.

We were hoping that guys like Gresham and Billings who were big names without the matching performances over the recent seasons would net us heaps of capital.

Lyon is happy to take on under-utilised talent from other clubs to replace those under-performers so we are topping up on the cheap.High picks go to the draft, later picks are used to pick off some cheap replacements.
 
gringo2011 said:
I think that we had a plan to build a level of solid professional GOP talent through trades and then bring in high end trades and FAs after moving on a layer of unprofessional GOPs. Then went to market and found that attracting top talent to a bland list isn't as easy as they had thought.
Realised that Owens and Nas types looked better than anything that we were likely to trade for and started to try to swap out some of the good but limited players for draft capital to try to add more talent at the draft.
We were hoping that guys like Gresham and Billings who were big names without the matching performances over the recent seasons would net us heaps of capital.
Lyon is happy to take on under-utilised talent from other clubs to replace those under-performers so we are topping up on the cheap.High picks go to the draft, later picks are used to pick off some cheap replacements.
Click to expand...
I believe the clubs approach this year was quite smart and well planned. IMO the calls on Gresham & Billings should have been made years ago. They wanted more outside speed and a clearance specialist and they got them both without giving away too much trade wise. We ended up with 3 x 3rd picks next year in a year where there will be unprecedented number of Father Sons Carlton x 2, Adelaide, Brisbane, Port Adelaide, plus more northern academy Sydney, Brisbane & GCS players 4-5. So clubs will be desperate for points and with the 3 x 3rd rounders we will be in a perfect position to trade up to a much stronger draft hand.

Again next year there will be more players the club may weed out giving us more trade value for the draft. Plus if the AFL adjust the NGA rules we will be in a position to take Adrian Cole and even trade picks for other clubs wanting points.

Getting a big chunk of TPP off the list will also allow us to go after and hopefully attract 1 or 2 quality free agents, then the list will be in a position to realistically start challenging.
 
gringo2011 said:
I think we are doing a Port Adelaide and doing a refresh on the fly while trying to compete for finals.
Click to expand...

Port had pick 5 which got them Rozee and a pick 1 gifted to them last year. That’s going to be tough to replicate. They also found a superstar with pick 12 which is extraordinary drafting.

I think we’re trying to do more of a Brisbane. Apart from McCluggage they basically traded in their whole midfield which is what I think we’ll be looking to do while staying competitive.
 
hayes said:
Port had pick 5 which got them Rozee and a pick 1 gifted to them last year. That’s going to be tough to replicate. They also found a superstar with pick 12 which is extraordinary drafting.

I think we’re trying to do more of a Brisbane. Apart from McCluggage they basically traded in their whole midfield which is what I think we’ll be looking to do while staying competitive.
Click to expand...

We already have Steele, Crouch, Jones, Hill, Wood, Dow and Henry traded in, plus we have Phillipou, Owens, Windhager and Hotton developing. I think our hope is to grab another midfielder/s required for our next tilt via the drafts and/or a free agency next year. Yes we dont have high draft picks, but I think Toce` and Roughead have proven they can do well with the draft hand we will have this year and next.

Ages next season -
Hill 31 yo
Crouch 30 yo
Wood 30 yo
Jones 29 yo
Expected to retire in next few years, good experienced players.

Marshall 28 yo
Steele 28
McKenzie 28 yo?
Clark 25 yo
Dow 24 yo
Henry 23 yo
Bynres 23 yo
Wanganeen-Milera
Windhager 21 yo
Owens 21 yo
Heath 21 yo
Phillipou 19 yo
Hotton 19 yo
Including this years draftee/s they will make up the core group of midfielders for our next tilt.

Possible trades next year may include - Clark, Byrnes, Paton and possibly Hayes.
 
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SteeleSaints said:
We already have Steele, Crouch, Jones, Hill, Wood, Dow and Henry traded in, plus we have Phillipou, Owens, Windhager and Hotton developing. I think our hope is to grab another midfielder/s required for our next tilt via the drafts and/or a free agency next year. Yes we dont have high draft picks, but I think Toce` and Roughead have proven they can do well with the draft hand we will have this year and next.

Ages next season -
Hill 31 yo
Crouch 30 yo
Wood 30 yo
Jones 29 yo
Expected to retire in next few years, good experienced players.

Marshall 28 yo
Steele 28
McKenzie 28 yo?
Clark 25 yo
Dow 24 yo
Henry 23 yo
Bynres 23 yo
Windhager 21 yo
Owens 21 yo
Heath 21 yo
Phillipou 19 yo
Hotton 19 yo
Including this years draftee/s they will make up the core group of midfielders for our next tilt.

Possible trades next year may include - Clark, Byrnes, Paton and possibly Hayes.
Click to expand...
You have left out Nas Wanganeen-Milera, who is probably the most skilled of all the youngsters.
 
SteeleSaints said:
I believe the clubs approach this year was quite smart and well planned. IMO the calls on Gresham & Billings should have been made years ago. They wanted more outside speed and a clearance specialist and they got them both without giving away too much trade wise. We ended up with 3 x 3rd picks next year in a year where there will be unprecedented number of Father Sons Carlton x 2, Adelaide, Brisbane, Port Adelaide, plus more northern academy Sydney, Brisbane & GCS players 4-5. So clubs will be desperate for points and with the 3 x 3rd rounders we will be in a perfect position to trade up to a much stronger draft hand.

Again next year there will be more players the club may weed out giving us more trade value for the draft. Plus if the AFL adjust the NGA rules we will be in a position to take Adrian Cole and even trade picks for other clubs wanting points.

Getting a big chunk of TPP off the list will also allow us to go after and hopefully attract 1 or 2 quality free agents, then the list will be in a position to realistically start challenging.
Click to expand...
Even more father son and academy picks?!?! WTF - we have no chance.
 
sauce_head said:
Even more father son and academy picks?!?! WTF - we have no chance.
Click to expand...

The clubs that get them will be wrapt, think of it that those players werent available to us in any event. Next year is reported as a very strong midfielders draft, so I still think we will do ok. Again the top 10-12 picks will be elite, but there will be very good players outside of that.

Remember there have been numerous excellent players taken later in the draft eg Fyfe, Neale, Jordan Dawson, Warner, Sloane, Parker etc they are out there we just have to continue to be better at finding them ala Marshall, Wilkie, Owens & Windhager.
 
SteeleSaints said:
I believe the clubs approach this year was quite smart and well planned. IMO the calls on Gresham & Billings should have been made years ago. They wanted more outside speed and a clearance specialist and they got them both without giving away too much trade wise. We ended up with 3 x 3rd picks next year in a year where there will be unprecedented number of Father Sons Carlton x 2, Adelaide, Brisbane, Port Adelaide, plus more northern academy Sydney, Brisbane & GCS players 4-5. So clubs will be desperate for points and with the 3 x 3rd rounders we will be in a perfect position to trade up to a much stronger draft hand.

Again next year there will be more players the club may weed out giving us more trade value for the draft. Plus if the AFL adjust the NGA rules we will be in a position to take Adrian Cole and even trade picks for other clubs wanting points.

Getting a big chunk of TPP off the list will also allow us to go after and hopefully attract 1 or 2 quality free agents, then the list will be in a position to realistically start challenging.
Click to expand...


Gresham was tracking towards being a DeGoey level player before a couple of injured seasons. He could still bite us on the arse. Paying Billings a star wage was the only real issue. Perhaps we should have made a call that he wasn't going to make it earlier but again he was in our best players before injury. When you don't have much quality, trading out players would get the fans off side.

All of it was a symptom of years of poor drafting and list management. Making finals has given them a little bit of trust back this year. It could easily go though.

The moves we made need to be seen in action before it can be assessed. If Gresham ends up getting back to his best and Henry and Dow end up GOPs we probably just diluted down the talent pool. If Billings ends up meeting expectation while we are paying his wage and getting us zero return, then it's a massive kick backwards.

Can't see too much that we could trade out next year to be honest. Perhaps another go at Howard but then again needs to be replaced by equal for less or an upgrade to make t worthwhile.

To me our list is still very average and people don't want average unless it's free. We could trade Max King and Owens and get capital but then you have to make something better out of it or you've lost the plot.
 
SteeleSaints said:
The clubs that get them will be wrapt, think of it that those players werent available to us in any event. Next year is reported as a very strong midfielders draft, so I still think we will do ok. Again the top 10-12 picks will be elite, but there will be very good players outside of that.

Remember there have been numerous excellent players taken later in the draft eg Fyfe, Neale, Jordan Dawson, Warner, Sloane, Parker etc they are out there we just have to continue to be better at finding them ala Marshall, Wilkie, Owens & Windhager.
Click to expand...


I don't think we have a second rounder next year do we? We are going to have to find a way to trade back in or hope someone needs points. I pick inside the top 30 picks is pretty slim pickings.
 
gringo2011 said:
I don't think we have a second rounder next year do we? We are going to have to find a way to trade back in or hope someone needs points. I pick inside the top 30 picks is pretty slim pickings.
Click to expand...

Exactly why we hold 3 x 3rd picks to trade up with all the F/S & NGA clubs will want next year! Plus as I suggested I expect to see a few players from the current list traded.
 
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