Analysis St.Kilda Mess. A peculiar but addictive dessert. Part Two (Solutions)

[Drake Huggins]

while we are at it why not sign Dusty, Buddy, Kelly, Fyfe, Rance, Gawn and Dangerfield....

your passionate post was certainly inspiring but we live in reality half the things you want done would require people to want to come to us .. how do you propose doing that ?

also for the 1 billionth time the AFLW team has never been at the expense on us getting a VFL team ... stop trying to make that link because all you come across as is a bitter old dude who things the girls shouldnt be playing footy ... the AFLW team is being floated by the AFL because the AFL want the AFLW to grow and be successful our input into the AFLW team is not a huge deal certainly not even close to the point where it ruled out the VFL team ... the two stumbling blocks as to why we wont have a stand alone VFL team are not related to the AFLW team they are :
1. The VFL dont want another team
2. The cost/return prospect of a VFL team wasnt viable

Of course most of it won't happen, St. trav, but if you aim low you have no hope. At least this way, if we get half of it done, we'll be better off. The good thing about attracting saints' people to the cause is they don't have any desire to go anywhere else. My experience is they are like dominoes. Once one falls, the others suddenly become more interested.

As for the women's team, of course we want and need one. We should have been one of the originals, given the bayside has more women's suburban teams than any other. How on earth did we miss out to the likes of Carlscum, or even Norf? Something not right at the Death Star. I'm no bitter old dude or misogynist. I desperately want a saints' womens' team to succeed. I want the AFLW to succeed. 50 % of the population deserves the chance to play the greatest game in the world, shouldn't they? My daughter plays and loves it. She started out in Auskick, played until under 12s and was then excluded.

My point about the AFLW was the Death Star was in too much of a hurry and nearly killed the goose that could lay a rather impressive golden egg. Still, they will overcome. I know it wasn't an either/or situation with our VFL or women's team. I did a bit of consulting with the Maribyrnong Council, post premierships. The whole Town Hall was decked out in red, white and blue. Premierships in one year for men's women's and VFL. The place was abuzz with pride, even for the people who had no idea about AFL. The buy in from the Asian and African communities was also instructive. People who had no previous interest would talk up AFL at every opportunity. If those losers pulled it off, why can't we?

 

[Drake Huggins]

As Winston Churchill's high school master noted on young Winnie's report card. "Young Churchill sets himself low standards and consistently fails to meet them." Saints anyone? If you are going to improve, set your sights high. That way, if you fail, you still get a reasonable result.

 

[The Punter]

As Winston Churchill's high school master noted on young Winnie's report card. "Young Churchill sets himself low standards and consistently fails to meet them." Saints anyone? If you are going to improve, set your sights high. That way, if you fail, you still get a reasonable result.

If the AFL is the Nazis, this is a good analogy. If St Kilda is Singapore or the Gallipoli peninsula... not so much.

 

[Drake Huggins]

St. trav of WA. I have been an admirer of your posts from afar for some time. You are a voice of reason and reality and one of the most passionate saints we have. You clearly take action as well. You remind me of my darling Wife, Sensible Ruth, as her sisters named her. Any decision I make, be it personal or business, I always run by her.

Your cautious approach has its place, but we are at the Yogi Berra moment, at the fork in the road. The next major move or overhaul may be our last in our current iteration. I remember when I left the psychological cage of Vicpol to strike out on my own. I was warned by the chicken little as to what I was giving up. You know what? All I gave up was the crushing cynicism and lack of imagination. I failed a lot after I left, but I succeeded more often. I regret nothing. The risk is its own reward. What's the alternative? Keep TMBK, his Clouseaux and spiral into never ending vortices of failure.

I want a bloody premiership! Just one. I want me and my mates striding into Marvel Stadium knowing we are more likely that not to win. I want to be able to brag about my club. I want to see happy, smiling Sainters. If we can't have those things, what's the point? To quote that splendid bugger, W.H Auden. If we can't get up we may as well, "Turn off the clocks and sweep up the woods, because nothing now will come to any good."

 

[Saintbloke]

Nice musing DH, and I reckon our team could do a lot worse than follow what Billy Shakespeare wrote in King John.." play fast and loose.."

 

[Stewart66]

Would rather this set up




Watts President

Satan Lethlean - CEO

Head of football - Craig Jennings

Senior Coach - Brett Ratten

Asst. - Mitchell, Hayes, Newman, Playfair.

Head of development - Matthew Egan

Academy - Nick Dal Santo , Leigh Montagna , Ryan OKeefe , Justin Koschitzke

Board - Bassett (entrepreneur) and his brother, , Chaim Gutnick, Michael Gudinski, Simon Whelan (lawyer, QC, now Supreme Court Judge.) Mordechai Bromberg. Legal fees covered.
Jason Blake , Gerry Ryan ,

 

[Drake Huggins]

If the AFL is the Nazis, this is a good analogy. If St Kilda is Singapore or the Gallipoli peninsula... not so much.

He did have a chequered career, didn't he punter? A bit like everyone's life, just with bigger stakes, thrust upon him by his hereditary. Win some, lose some. At least he stood up to Hitler, when the king and all the others wanted to appease and negotiate


. If not for WC, we'd be speaking German and eating sausage and sauerkraut. It would also have been the case if my dad and uncles had fought harder! Still, i grew up speaking German and eating sausage and sauerkraut and it wasn't so bad!

 

[Sir Skid]

Of course most of it won't happen, St. trav, but if you aim low you have no hope. At least this way, if we get half of it done, we'll be better off. The good thing about attracting saints' people to the cause is they don't have any desire to go anywhere else. My experience is they are like dominoes. Once one falls, the others suddenly become more interested.

As for the women's team, of course we want and need one. We should have been one of the originals, given the bayside has more women's suburban teams than any other. How on earth did we miss out to the likes of Carlscum, or even Norf? Something not right at the Death Star. I'm no bitter old dude or misogynist. I desperately want a saints' womens' team to succeed. I want the AFLW to succeed. 50 % of the population deserves the chance to play the greatest game in the world, shouldn't they? My daughter plays and loves it. She started out in Auskick, played until under 12s and was then excluded.

My point about the AFLW was the Death Star was in too much of a hurry and nearly killed the goose that could lay a rather impressive golden egg. Still, they will overcome. I know it wasn't an either/or situation with our VFL or women's team. I did a bit of consulting with the Maribyrnong Council, post premierships. The whole Town Hall was decked out in red, white and blue. Premierships in one year for men's women's and VFL. The place was abuzz with pride, even for the people who had no idea about AFL. The buy in from the Asian and African communities was also instructive. People who had no previous interest would talk up AFL at every opportunity. If those losers pulled it off, why can't we?

FWIW I reckon what you wrote below is what we'll see early in off season Drake. Hopefully the right domino's falling the right ways.

"My experience is they are like dominoes. Once one falls, the others suddenly become more interested."

 

[Drake Huggins]

Would rather this set up




Watts President

Satan Lethlean - CEO

Head of football - Craig Jennings

Senior Coach - Brett Ratten

Asst. - Mitchell, Hayes, Newman, Playfair.

Head of development - Matthew Egan

Academy - Nick Dal Santo , Leigh Montagna , Ryan OKeefe , Justin Koschitzke

Board - Bassett (entrepreneur) and his brother, , Chaim Gutnick, Michael Gudinski, Simon Whelan (lawyer, QC, now Supreme Court Judge.) Mordechai Bromberg. Legal fees covered.
Jason Blake , Gerry Ryan ,

Love it, Stewart66. See what happens when we activate our massive brains? I think your model is a definite upgrade of mine.

 

[Stewart66]

Another StKilda man for Board ......would be Simon O’Donnell

not sure if business commitments will allow .




Watts President

Satan Lethlean - CEO

Head of football - Craig Jennings

Senior Coach - Brett Ratten

Asst. - Mitchell, Hayes, Newman, Playfair.

Head of development - Matthew Egan

Academy - Nick Dal Santo , Leigh Montagna , Ryan OKeefe , Justin Koschitzke

Board - Bassett (entrepreneur) and his brother, , Chaim Gutnick, Michael Gudinski, Simon Whelan (lawyer, QC, now Supreme Court Judge.) Mordechai Bromberg. Legal fees covered.
Jason Blake , Gerry Ryan ,[/QUOTE]

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

St. trav of WA. I have been an admirer of your posts from afar for some time. You are a voice of reason and reality and one of the most passionate saints we have. You clearly take action as well. You remind me of my darling Wife, Sensible Ruth, as her sisters named her. Any decision I make, be it personal or business, I always run by her.

Your cautious approach has its place, but we are at the Yogi Berra moment, at the fork in the road. The next major move or overhaul may be our last in our current iteration. I remember when I left the psychological cage of Vicpol to strike out on my own. I was warned by the chicken little as to what I was giving up. You know what? All I gave up was the crushing cynicism and lack of imagination. I failed a lot after I left, but I succeeded more often. I regret nothing. The risk is its own reward. What's the alternative? Keep TMBK, his Clouseaux and spiral into never ending vortices of failure.

I want a bloody premiership! Just one. I want me and my mates striding into Marvel Stadium knowing we are more likely that not to win. I want to be able to brag about my club. I want to see happy, smiling Sainters. If we can't have those things, what's the point? To quote that splendid bugger, W.H Auden. If we can't get up we may as well, "Turn off the clocks and sweep up the woods, because nothing now will come to any good."

i agree with much of what you say but i think the thing to be mindful of is while we as fans are open to shoot for the stars and aim high with our expectations the club has to be realistic with who it gets ... im sure you would understand that who ever we end up with it would be the best person we could nab but some people on here will look at who we get and say "ehh Saints stuff up again should have got **** " never mind the **** was not gettable ...
im sure the club is aiming high but you can bet they wont make the same mistake of broadcasting it this time ...
personally im a big supporter of Summers and Finnis , ive had dealings with their predecessors and by far these two guys are the ones i have had the most faith in ... Peter is prob gone he will go end of next year anyway but i can see him handing over the reighns early ... Richo i reckon we are giving him enough rope to fall on his own sword

 

[Mat Mann]

I'm a supporter of Finnis and Summers up until things unraveled, 'cho was shown as incompetent, Finnis no football nous, bereft of leadership and development. to let your primary focus flounder for so long is an horrendous failing and one that will mean the great work they did in not only returning us to Moorabbin, but to have such a facility.

Every facet of the footy department needs a rebuild except the medics,

 

[Baldur]

Step One

Cut the AFL debt reins

The AFL's aims are focused on increasing their power and short term (5+ years time frame) profit. The quickest way to increase both is to make most of the teams beholden to them while insuring that the big teams win and win and win. The poor get poorer, the rich richer & the AFL's power & profit increases.

Step Two

Grow some mongrel

Nice never wins, the bastards do & history is written to show them as nice.

 

[Drake Huggins]

Step One

Cut the AFL debt reins

The AFL's aims are focused on increasing their power and short term (5+ years time frame) profit. The quickest way to increase both is to make most of the teams beholden to them while insuring that the big teams win and win and win. The poor get poorer, the rich richer & the AFL's power & profit increases.

Step Two

Grow some mongrel

Nice never wins, the bastards do & history is written to show them as nice.

We remind me of the "prison bitch" scenario I became familiar with in another career. That is, the weakest, nicest pleaser in the yard was forever bent over a trough with a different bloke up him. He never got to drink his big M Choccie milk, never had any cigarettes, even though he bought some each pay day and forever was being relieved of his phone privileges. All his money went to others. He was the "nice guy", who got no respect and even fewer favours from the others.

Hawthorn has always struck me as the prison yard bastard. Feared and respected by everyone, even the staff and the coppers. Always had plenty of what the bitch had none of. The bitch's friends and family would visit him, express their exasperation at his treatment and retreat, only to repeat the drill a week later. Nothing ever changed for the PB.

The PYB, on the other hand got conjugal visits, (mostly not from his wife), did as he pleased and had the prison guards on his payroll. The authorities loved him, because through a mixture of violence, rape, theft and extortion, he did their job for them. He kept order. Forget the governor. TPYB and his minions ran the place. Nothing happened without their imprimatur.

Kennet has HQ in his thrall. So do several other of the power clubs. Always get favourable decisions, favourable draws, no bad press, weak tribunal penalties, no criticism from The Death Star. Never have their culture questioned, never get their finances laid bare and subjected to criticism, nor do they struggle to get the blockbuster games. The Death Star even tells us who to appoint, or it does it for us. When they want our opinion, they give it to us.

Forget about our Friday night frollicks this year. We'll never get them again until we break free and get some respect. The Murphy fiasco, pride game, gender neutral toilets, virtue signalling to the point of letting the club suffer for the sake of being PC. We are the nice club. Even Caro agrees. We are going nowhere. Time to punch Gil and his mates in their collective balls/ovaries.

What would they do? They need us as much as we need them. Come on, new board. March up to HQ, pitchforks erect, torches blazing. Demand a better deal. And when they bend you over the trough, fight as though your life depends on it. I've seen it work for others. Time for us to be Devils, not saints.

 

[CD Xbow]

We remind me of the "prison bitch" scenario I became familiar with in another career. That is, the weakest, nicest pleaser in the yard was forever bent over a trough with a different bloke up him. He never got to drink his big M Choccie milk, never had any cigarettes, even though he bought some each pay day and forever was being relieved of his phone privileges. All his money went to others. He was the "nice guy", who got no respect and even fewer favours from the others.

Hawthorn has always struck me as the prison yard bastard. Feared and respected by everyone, even the staff and the coppers. Always had plenty of what the bitch had none of. The bitch's friends and family would visit him, express their exasperation at his treatment and retreat, only to repeat the drill a week later. Nothing ever changed for the PB.

The PYB, on the other hand got conjugal visits, (mostly not from his wife), did as he pleased and had the prison guards on his payroll. The authorities loved him, because through a mixture of violence, rape, theft and extortion, he did their job for them. He kept order. Forget the governor. TPYB and his minions ran the place. Nothing happened without their imprimatur.

Kennet has HQ in his thrall. So do several other of the power clubs. Always get favourable decisions, favourable draws, no bad press, weak tribunal penalties, no criticism from The Death Star. Never have their culture questioned, never get their finances laid bare and subjected to criticism, nor do they struggle to get the blockbuster games. The Death Star even tells us who to appoint, or it does it for us. When they want our opinion, they give it to us.

Forget about our Friday night frollicks this year. We'll never get them again until we break free and get some respect. The Murphy fiasco, pride game, gender neutral toilets, virtue signalling to the point of letting the club suffer for the sake of being PC. We are the nice club. Even Caro agrees. We are going nowhere. Time to punch Gil and his mates in their collective balls/ovaries.

What would they do? They need us as much as we need them. Come on, new board. March up to HQ, pitchforks erect, torches blazing. Demand a better deal. And when they bend you over the trough, fight as though your life depends on it. I've seen it work for others. Time for us to be Devils, not saints.

Enjoyed the post, I make no apology that I'd much rather be a hammer than a nail. A bit of mongrel is as necessary in admin as it is in footballers, for the Hawks it's driven by our near extinction in 1996. Not sure I agree about the tribunal claim, in the last 18 reports for tripping, only 2 players have been suspended, both Hawks.

If Ratts is willing to come to the saints you should grab him with both hands and make him head coach. I can't understand why is there any support for Richo and his terrible record. Why continue to embrace failure? I would be surprised if Ratts took anything less than a head coaching job, it would be terrible for you to miss him because someone thinks it wise to give Richo another year. Same with Mitchel. Two quality coaches could turn things around.

 

[Shelby]

Phew! What a thread! TMWWT - BWHW is certainly a dedicated poster!

 

[Marlo]

Overseen by a neutral like Satan Lethlean

hahahaha

I was thinking Slitherlean, but just straight up Satan is too good.

 

[Drake Huggins]

hahahaha

I was thinking Slitherlean, but just straight up Satan is too good.[/QUOTE

I think he was originally Slitherlean (bit of gold there mate) at one point, but last year he was promoted to Satan. I'm actually glad he's on our side. My son went to Xavier and played with OXs. Lethlean wasn't universally loved. Ambitious, straight shooters rarely are. He was, however greatly respected and demonstrably capable. Anyone who plays reserves football for a club as successful as Hawthorn was at the time, must have been able to seriously play. He was involved with six premierships at OX, a remarkable achievement, so he ticks the football nous box.

I don't share Caro's concern about a boy's club coming from there. I'm as opposed to the Groupthink that can be brought to the place as anyone could be. The difference in the OX network is it is incredibly successful. They know how to excel and win. I know several parents who sent their boys there purely for the future networking possibilities.

I wasn't a huge fan of the elitist ethic, but that was mainly driven by the Jesuits. "Men for men" was the motto. Sounds more like the title of a gay pr0n movie than a school motto.

My son was fortunate enough to to get in on a scholarship. The facilities were first class. The teaching and sports coaching amazing. The opportunities to succeed, abundant. No coincidence his first three jobs were at Forever New, Telstra and AGL were all due to networking. As brilliant as he tells me he is, his contacts have always been a significant factor. In his late twenties now, he and three mates (two OXs) are running their own IT consultancy. He's earning well and I've demanded he starts saving for my retirement. Am I reading this right, or does Satan have me in his thrall?

 

[Drake Huggins]

i agree with much of what you say but i think the thing to be mindful of is while we as fans are open to shoot for the stars and aim high with our expectations the club has to be realistic with who it gets ... im sure you would understand that who ever we end up with it would be the best person we could nab but some people on here will look at who we get and say "ehh Saints stuff up again should have got **** " never mind the **** was not gettable ...
im sure the club is aiming high but you can bet they wont make the same mistake of broadcasting it this time ...
personally im a big supporter of Summers and Finnis , ive had dealings with their predecessors and by far these two guys are the ones i have had the most faith in ... Peter is prob gone he will go end of next year anyway but i can see him handing over the reighns early ... Richo i reckon we are giving him enough rope to fall on his own sword

I hear you, St. trav.,as I posted earlier, your remind me of my Sensible Ruth. The thing is , you are right about us nabbing the one left and who is available and what we can afford. That has kept us mired in mediocrity. We need vision, passion and engagement. I saw what getting Mad Malcolm did for us as a club. All of a sudden, we weren't the also rans, we struck out and were leaders. It didn't work because Malcolm came in burnt out and a critic of the club. Hated us in fact. PM me if you want a couple of Blighty stories that will make you shake your head. At least they had the balls to get rid of him.

Buttersssss and GT, whatever their flaws were passionate saints' men. They were also successful in their private lives and business. Their passion and vision helped build the best list I'd seen in fifty years of following the saints. They were instrumental in bringing Hamill, Gehrig, Lawrence, Voss, Penny, Black, Guerra
Powell and Gram to the club. They had their faults, as we eventually came to see, but if Rod had stayed off the Uncle Dougs and GT reigned in his need to control everything, I'm sure we would've had a Geelong like dynasty.

This is a huge roll of the dice coming. I used to love listening to Rod and GT talk about the saints. Their love of the club rubbed off on you, unlike Timid and MM. I'm biased towards Rod, as he and his boy play cricket with my so. We also did some videos for channel 31 called "Tough Times" (don't last) in which he laid bare his struggles and fall from grace. Amazingly courageous and honest. He took responsibility, something many people don't do. Like most ultra creative and borderline geniuses, he was highly unstable. I'm glad to report he is sober, and rebuilding his life. We need a few more like him on the board, not fewer.

I'm confident that Satan Lethlean, is the right man to balance the "Blue Skiers" (me included) with the hard heads and can make the right calls. His appointment of Gallagher is the first of these. We need a couple of new board members, a new president, coach, assistants and recruiters. Tough task, but it has been done before. Remember 2004-11. An era built on the misery of what preceded it. We have to break the cycle. It may be our last chance.

 

[Mat Mann]

I like the way you think Drake, just hope we can fend off the wolves and keep the roof overhead whilst Satan does his work.

no matter what happens this year, we wont play finals next I wouldn't think, but a coaching change may see members stay on the boat and a new board should keep the boat pointing seaward