Discussion St Kilda Pre-Season take 2

[gringo2011]

Except for the comment on the excess of defenders, l just can't agree with any of that.

The state of our list 2 years ago was in hindsight bloody horrific.
In Gag's first year we traded in 2 and drafted 6 new players, plus Marsh and Mayo.
This year traded in 5 and still drafted 3.
So that's 11 drafted in 2 years, and 16 in the last 3 years btw.

The fact we traded hard last year (and this year imo) was %100 needed for balance. Lethers made it plane when interviewed, "we have enough kids"...

It's just a case of not being able to fix it in the space of a single year.
Of the players on the chopping block this year, I've got Gears, Brown, Joyce, Sav, Carlisle, Dmac, Austin and Jweb.
Philips and Daults would also be sweating, but it illiterates that this year will probably be the last one of fixing the list, as the defenders are all OOC and it's reasonably clear who has to go.

And on the point if not acquiring high priced talent. It's been made clear ad nauseum that those players haven't wanted to come over, and those premium signings go to clubs playing finals EOS.
Harping on that point is again, silly.
If Norff Melbourne beat us in signing a premium player, then by all means melt away.
At the end of the day, Trout and Richo were utterly terrible and the new blokes couldn't just wave their wands and fix it in a single year.
From where the list was 2 drafts ago, and with our lack of tradable cattle, they've done f%÷×ing stellar job..

Most high end talent comes from the front end of the draft. King, Clark, Gresham all look like top kids from there but look at sides like GC and we have * all. We have done a near full rebuild in 5 years and haven't had any elite talent enter the club from the draft or trades. I'm still not confident the list is advanced enough to chase mature talent. Guys like Carlisle and Hanners have got to start to earn their keep too. We look more like North or Carlton than one of the top 8 sides.

I hope I'm wrong but we look like copying the Melbourne 12 years between finals to me. As long as we improve I'll hang in but I'm so sick of waiting for success, even if I could see a plan that was obvious I reckon I could handle it.

 

[gringo2011]

We seem to have enough outside run, but the grunt players we need to get the ball out, are not up to it- just GOPs. Until we address that, we will be treading water.

A smattering of elite talent all over the field would be nice too.

 

[Stewart66]

sounds like the argument made 4 years ago with Ross and Billings. Bytel is very speculative more so than Ross and Billings.

Risk wasn’t with Bytel’s ability only his body .

Never been more confident the kid will be extremely good player , attitude 1st class , skills 1st class.
Application to training....1st class and importantly good listener gets & seeks feedback from Roughead
all the time.

 

[gringo2011]

Risk wasn’t with Bytel’s ability only his body .

Never been more confident the kid will be extremely good player , attitude 1st class , skills 1st class.
Application to training....1st class and importantly good listener gets & seeks feedback from Roughead
all the time.

It would go a fair way to improving us if he could come on. Clark might become a fun time mid but he's not the big inside beast we really need anyway. Bytel is a big unit and you can imagine that he'll fill out a fair bit. Hunter isn't small bit he looks lightly framed and like his ideal playing weight is not much more than it is now. Bytel looks like he'll be a lump kid and pretty tall.

How far off regular footy do you think he is?

 

[Stewart66]

It would go a fair way to improving us if he could come on. Clark might become a fun time mid but he's not the big inside beast we really need anyway. Bytel is a big unit and you can imagine that he'll fill out a fair bit. Hunter isn't small bit he looks lightly framed and like his ideal playing weight is not much more than it is now. Bytel looks like he'll be a lump kid and pretty tall.

How far off regular footy do you think he is?

Every game he gets now is worth 10 .

Was extremely suprised Ross was selected given his preseason.
Was extremely suprised Kent was selected .

Think they are conservative with Bytel long game being played .

 

[gringo2011]

Every game he gets now is worth 10 .

Was extremely suprised Ross was selected given his preseason.
Was extremely suprised Kent was selected .

Think they are conservative with Bytel long game being played .

Was Ross injured or s**t? I prefer Parker and Hind to Kent. Kent's good for 1 or 2 good things a game but overall doesn't earn his keep.

 

[borderbarry]

If the AFL start in July, when would tha VFL start? I am anxious to see what stage Bytel and Byrnes are at. Maybe we wont need to look elsewhere for mids.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Most high end talent comes from the front end of the draft. King, Clark, Gresham all look like top kids from there but look at sides like GC and we have fu** all. We have done a near full rebuild in 5 years and haven't had any elite talent enter the club from the draft or trades. I'm still not confident the list is advanced enough to chase mature talent. Guys like Carlisle and Hanners have got to start to earn their keep too. We look more like North or Carlton than one of the top 8 sides.

I hope I'm wrong but we look like copying the Melbourne 12 years between finals to me. As long as we improve I'll hang in but I'm so sick of waiting for success, even if I could see a plan that was obvious I reckon I could handle it.

Fair enough and l can see your point.
Our top 10 picks haven't exactly set the world on fire, but Libba's boys are Clark, Coff, Paton, Clav*, King* Bytel, Daults, Byrnes, Connelly, Parker, Hind and Wilkie, of which only Clark and Wilkie have had a proper run at it.

Each rebuild is different, and although we may yet repeat Melbourne's results, it won't be for the same reasons, so l don't think it's healthey to take that perspective.

I guess when it comes to trading our high picks, you have to ask yourself weather you'd prefer and wait till Clark/Coff/Clav/Paton are 27-28 years old?

Our current list management have only traded one of our top picks from an average draft thus far, and for that we have Hill and Doogs which you'd have to agree is a good result no??

With this years draft looking substantially naff also l can see the same happening again, so best to take a positive view to avoid the disappointment.

We are all sick of waiting, but l choose to see that we have 4x top 10 picks that have yet to reach the age or maturity to influence the side, and that 2022 is about when that will really kick in. That also provides 2 more trade/draft periods to reformulate the list.
You may as well enjoy the journey at this point.

 

[ScrappyDo]

It would go a fair way to improving us if he could come on. Clark might become a fun time mid but he's not the big inside beast we really need anyway. Bytel is a big unit and you can imagine that he'll fill out a fair bit. Hunter isn't small bit he looks lightly framed and like his ideal playing weight is not much more than it is now. Bytel looks like he'll be a lump kid and pretty tall.

How far off regular footy do you think he is?

Which Hunter have you been watching?
Our one has a frame like a wine barrel over a hills hoist, but long skinny arms and legs that need gym work.
Maybe it's my crummy vision, but l thought he was easily our biggest mid in frame by some margin.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Every game he gets now is worth 10 .

Was extremely suprised Ross was selected given his preseason.
Was extremely suprised Kent was selected .

Think they are conservative with Bytel long game being played .

Stew, can l get your thoughts on where Clav and Austin are at?

Our future CHB is a piece of the puzzle that I'm not understanding at the moment..

 

[plugger66]

It would go a fair way to improving us if he could come on. Clark might become a fun time mid but he's not the big inside beast we really need anyway. Bytel is a big unit and you can imagine that he'll fill out a fair bit. Hunter isn't small bit he looks lightly framed and like his ideal playing weight is not much more than it is now. Bytel looks like he'll be a lump kid and pretty tall.

How far off regular footy do you think he is?

Lenny Hayes wasn’t big. It’s a mind set. Clarke could be an inside bull if that’s how he plays best. He is big enough.

 

[plugger66]

If the AFL start in July, when would tha VFL start? I am anxious to see what stage Bytel and Byrnes are at. Maybe we wont need to look elsewhere for mids.

Might not start at all. Depends if cricket are prepared to start late

 

[ScrappyDo]

Might not start at all. Depends if cricket are prepared to start late

I don't think that will be an issue. There's enough grounds under AFL or club control to see a season played out regardless of what the cricket leagues do..

 

[plugger66]

I don't think that will be an issue. There's enough grounds under AFL or club control to see a season played out regardless of what the cricket leagues do..

Ok still may not start. Cost and government maybe other reasons. I still think cricket is played at a lot of these grounds. They aren’t going to use marvel or the g and can only play weekends or under lights.

 

[lewdogs]

If the AFL want to go with hubs I just don't see how they get the VFL going aswell. The idea of a hub is it's a contained, quarantined and controlled group of people. The VFL would not be that.

I think they might have to go with mini-practice games for the seconds players, maybe with merged teams just to keep players match-fit.

Then it will be up to us to give our young guys a go in the firsts when we can.

The hubs sounds like a near-certainty.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Risk wasn’t with Bytel’s ability only his body .

Never been more confident the kid will be extremely good player , attitude 1st class , skills 1st class.
Application to training....1st class and importantly good listener gets & seeks feedback from Roughead
all the time.

sounds like a few others we have had over the years who never got going.... Freman & Markworth not saying that his fate will follow their suit but both those guys were "known" to become extremely good players , attitude 1st class , skills 1st class , application to training 1st class, good listeners to coaches and following directions ect. ect. all those things are fantastic traits but that in itself is often not enough to get the results...

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

The hubs sounds like a near-certainty.

there is still some work to do around that in theory its an easy and logical system ... but from what i heard the players union have a lot (and i mean a lot) of issue around it .. the idea of player being away from home while getting a pay cut and craming more games in a shorter time frame .. there is lots of work to be done

 

[ScrappyDo]

Ok still may not start. Cost and government maybe other reasons. I still think cricket is played at a lot of these grounds. They aren’t going to use marvel or the g and can only play weekends or under lights.

Nar it's already past the pont of may or may not start. It's happening.
CV transmission is now to low to justify shut down measures. There will still be crowd restrictions of course, but the games will start. I'd bet your life in it..

 

[plugger66]

Nar it's already past the pont of may or may not start. It's happening.
CV transmission is now to low to justify shut down measures. There will still be crowd restrictions of course, but the games will start. I'd bet your life in it..

Vfl?

 

[CaptainRisky]

Which Hunter have you been watching?
Our one has a frame like a wine barrel over a hills hoist, but long skinny arms and legs that need gym work.
Maybe it's my crummy vision, but l thought he was easily our biggest mid in frame by some margin.

He has very wide hips and a big butt , he still has to fill out IMO

 

[ScrappyDo]

He has very wide hips and a big butt , he still has to fill out IMO

Yep. The photo of the top 10 on stage with their backs turned it telling. Hunter is a BIG unit.

 

[BrutThough]

If the AFL start in July, when would tha VFL start? I am anxious to see what stage Bytel and Byrnes are at. Maybe we wont need to look elsewhere for mids.

There was some talk last week that there is some tension between the VFL clubs about whether a season will happen. The standalone clubs are obvious desperate and dependent on a season starting as soon as possible while the AFL Clubs with their own teams would rather hold back their players with the thought of them being needed with AFL teams playing off shortened breaks.

Will be interesting what solution they come up with.

 

[gringo2011]

Which Hunter have you been watching?
Our one has a frame like a wine barrel over a hills hoist, but long skinny arms and legs that need gym work.
Maybe it's my crummy vision, but l thought he was easily our biggest mid in frame by some margin.

Hunter looks like he's got a barrel body shape but looks like it a bit of chub that will shed. He's got skinny limbs too, best case is Lenny Hayes type build I reckon. Bytel looks massive and like his arms will fill out. Hunter would be about 6 foot but Bytel looks a good couple of inches bigger with the type of frame that should bulk easily. I haven't seen HC play much midfield yet, he's predominantly played off half back so far.

 

[Grav]

He has very wide hips and a big butt , he still has to fill out IMO

This is wide hips & big butt ....


This IMO is more upper body strength...


So where does this guy fit?


If we get 1/2 of Harves & 1/2 of Lenny in him, we definitely have a sure fire winner.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Hunter looks like he's got a barrel body shape but looks like it a bit of chub that will shed. He's got skinny limbs too, best case is Lenny Hayes type build I reckon. Bytel looks massive and like his arms will fill out. Hunter would be about 6 foot but Bytel looks a good couple of inches bigger with the type of frame that should bulk easily. I haven't seen HC play much midfield yet, he's predominantly played off half back so far.

hunter 187 cm 82 kg Bytel 189 cm 78 kg from the saints website