St Kilda - time to get your house in order

Chuckie357

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 9, 2015
6,455
5,180
AFL Club
St Kilda
Nah. Our memberships increased in 2012 and then further again 2013 (the last year at Football Park)
Playing football in the middle of the city, with access to public transport is advantageous but you've had that benefit for years.
Oh you dont like Etihad though because reasons.
Funny how you turned this into a discussion about Port. Your bias is clearly showing.
Well of course I’m going to defend my team aren’t I. What did you expect, 1997 to be my favourite year?
 

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Demonic Ascent

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
14,438
9,943
Muckertal
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Eltham Turtles, NY Jets, Celtics
How many clubs have folded, merged or relocated in the past 20 years?
Doesn't mean it won't happen if things don't continue on the same trajectory they have been. The last 20 years have seen the unprecedented growth of the game. There may come a time where a 3rd WA/SA/NSW team or a Tas/NT/NZ/Riverina team is seen as more desirable than a stagnant Melbourne-based team.
 

Lavender Bushranger

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2005
5,739
8,466
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Doesn't mean it won't happen if things don't continue on the same trajectory they have been. The last 20 years have seen the unprecedented growth of the game. There may come a time where a 3rd WA/SA/NSW team or a Tas/NT/NZ/Riverina team is seen as more desirable than a stagnant Melbourne-based team.
Why has there been unprecedented growth?


Tip: 18 teams playing 9 games every weekend across the country = big $$ and 'unprecedented' growth.

As much as trickle down economics doesn't work in a real society, I think it does work in some sports.
Obviously some clubs will always be disadvantaged by it and others will benefit from cushy fixtures and high exposure - but it means that the AFL operates at a huge net profit even though most clubs individullly run at a loss.

The game has changed. The business has changed.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
18,504
6,174
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
Why has there been unprecedented growth?


Tip: 18 teams playing 9 games every weekend across the country = big $$ and 'unprecedented' growth.

As much as trickle down economics doesn't work in a real society, I think it does work in some sports.
Obviously some clubs will always be disadvantaged by it and others will benefit from cushy fixtures and high exposure - but it means that the AFL operates at a huge net profit even though most clubs individullly run at a loss.

The game has changed. The business has changed.
you do remember the AFL made a loss in the last year of the last TV rights deal, simply because because it overspent.
 

Demonic Ascent

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
14,438
9,943
Muckertal
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Eltham Turtles, NY Jets, Celtics
Why has there been unprecedented growth?


Tip: 18 teams playing 9 games every weekend across the country = big $$ and 'unprecedented' growth.

As much as trickle down economics doesn't work in a real society, I think it does work in some sports.
Obviously some clubs will always be disadvantaged by it and others will benefit from cushy fixtures and high exposure - but it means that the AFL operates at a huge net profit even though most clubs individullly run at a loss.

The game has changed. The business has changed.
There would still be 18 teams just distributed differently.
 

Lavender Bushranger

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2005
5,739
8,466
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
you do remember the AFL made a loss in the last year of the last TV rights deal, simply because because it overspent.
?

They made a loss in 2011 too on the eve of the new TV deal - but had just spent about $40m setting GWS up in 2011. Adding GWS and Gold Coast however took the 2012-2016 TV deal to above $1b for the first time ever.

Money well spent.

The loss you speak of, funnily enough came on the eve of the new TV deal which this time was up 70% on the prior deal to over $2.5b!

The TV deals would be nowhere near this if the AFL wasn't propping up the 18 franchises that form their product. Save $20m by not handing it over to the Gold Coast and GWS - but lose a billion in the next TV deal.
 

Lavender Bushranger

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2005
5,739
8,466
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
There would still be 18 teams just distributed differently.
But how would 'redistributing' a team suddenly make them more viable?

There's already two teams in Q'land, 2 in NSW, 2 in Adelaide, 2 in Perth.

What market is out there that would generate more support than the 40k members and estimated 100k supporters/customers of the St.K FC? Obviously the TV rights wouldn't necessarily change - but we're not talking about TV rights, we're talking about the notion of the AFL cutting or relocating teams because they're not making enough money directly.
 

Marc_Remillard

Angel of the Abyss
Jan 4, 2015
6,075
6,520
AFL Club
Melbourne
The biggest and most urgent problem with the AFL is the fixture and the AFL's desire to maximise profits at the expense of clubs like the Saints, Doggies, North etc. This one AFL policy is the sole reason why there is a massive financial gap between the clubs and why that gap will never be breached.

The AFL is not a true sporting competition, it is a fixed entertainment package designed at maximising profits.
 

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Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
18,504
6,174
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
?

They made a loss in 2011 too on the eve of the new TV deal - but had just spent about $40m setting GWS up in 2011. Adding GWS and Gold Coast however took the 2012-2016 TV deal to above $1b for the first time ever.

Money well spent.

The loss you speak of, funnily enough came on the eve of the new TV deal which this time was up 70% on the prior deal to over $2.5b!

The TV deals would be nowhere near this if the AFL wasn't propping up the 18 franchises that form their product. Save $20m by not handing it over to the Gold Coast and GWS - but lose a billion in the next TV deal.
My point being even the AFL can (& does) make losses, so the more clubs that can stand on their own 2 feet the better, that some have had 100+ years to get their act together & cant make it in this national era should not be dismissed lightly.
 

#gosaintas

Premiership Player
Nov 11, 2013
3,103
5,327
AFL Club
St Kilda
My point being even the AFL can (& does) make losses, so the more clubs that can stand on their own 2 feet the better, that some have had 100+ years to get their act together & cant make it in this national era should not be dismissed lightly.
Tough to stand on your own 2 feet when your home stadium deal makes you close to no money for the entire year.
This has apparently been fixed for the year ahead for my club.
Should be an easier road for us from here.
 

Demonic Ascent

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
14,438
9,943
Muckertal
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Eltham Turtles, NY Jets, Celtics
But how would 'redistributing' a team suddenly make them more viable?

There's already two teams in Q'land, 2 in NSW, 2 in Adelaide, 2 in Perth.

What market is out there that would generate more support than the 40k members and estimated 100k supporters/customers of the St.K FC? Obviously the TV rights wouldn't necessarily change - but we're not talking about TV rights, we're talking about the notion of the AFL cutting or relocating teams because they're not making enough money directly.
The current expansion clubs don't do that but the AFL pushed ahead anyway due to their expansion strategy. Same philosophy would apply, they'd be looking at decades down the track not just what happens next year. If you seriously think the threat of relocation in particular doesn't still hang over the heads of the smaller Vic clubs I think you're being naive. If the AFL could've they would've already sent North to GC (in 2007/08) or Tas (last year or this).
 

Ancient Tiger

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 18, 2007
15,269
29,739
Richmond
AFL Club
Richmond
The biggest and most urgent problem with the AFL is the fixture and the AFL's desire to maximise profits at the expense of clubs like the Saints, Doggies, North etc. This one AFL policy is the sole reason why there is a massive financial gap between the clubs and why that gap will never be breached.

The AFL is not a true sporting competition, it is a fixed entertainment package designed at maximising profits.
We did not have a single Friday night game last year. That didn't stop our membership hitting 75K.
Back in the days of an even fixture there still were the big clubs and the not so big clubs.

While it's far from ideal, using the fixture as an excuse is poor. Become successful and get a better fixture.
 

Lavender Bushranger

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2005
5,739
8,466
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
The current expansion clubs don't do that but the AFL pushed ahead anyway due to their expansion strategy. Same philosophy would apply, they'd be looking at decades down the track not just what happens next year. If you seriously think the threat of relocation in particular doesn't still hang over the heads of the smaller Vic clubs I think you're being naive. If the AFL could've they would've already sent North to GC (in 2007/08) or Tas (last year or this).
They do do that.

They have added 70% to the TV rights.
 

Ancient Tiger

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 18, 2007
15,269
29,739
Richmond
AFL Club
Richmond
You had multiple locked in Thursday Night blockbusters though didn't you?
Multiple = first 2 games. One is the fixed opening game with Carlton which anyone had the chance of fixing but both our clubs took the initiative and lobbied for it.

Thursday nights are not blockbuster nights for crowds if there is no public holiday the next day. Kids have school the next day.
 

Marc_Remillard

Angel of the Abyss
Jan 4, 2015
6,075
6,520
AFL Club
Melbourne
We did not have a single Friday night game last year. That didn't stop our membership hitting 75K.
Back in the days of an even fixture there still were the big clubs and the not so big clubs.

While it's far from ideal, using the fixture as an excuse is poor. Become successful and get a better fixture.
No, you completely missed the point. It's not just about having Friday night games, it's about how the AFL fixes the matches so the same clubs get the most benefit out of the fixture.

For example, over the last ten years Melbourne has only had about 1 home game against Essendon. Or how clubs like North or the saints always play home games against the poorer crowd drawing non-Vic clubs whereas clubs like Richmond don't.

The 'become successful and you will get a better fixture' statement has been proven to be wrong so many times in the past
 

Tandy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 6, 2017
5,483
8,270
Victoria
AFL Club
Geelong
Only need to look at the additional members and fans hawthorn have picked up in Tassie to know the saints should have stayed. Not to mention saving money by playing games in Tasmania instead of docklands.
 

Demonic Ascent

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
14,438
9,943
Muckertal
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Eltham Turtles, NY Jets, Celtics
They do do that.

They have added 70% to the TV rights.
You can believe that, but you'd be completely wrong.

Channel 7 values these teams so highly that they put their games on secondary channels. I can also assume Foxtel hasn't seen a surge in subscriptions in NSW/QLD off the back of expansion into GWS/GC.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
18,504
6,174
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
We did not have a single Friday night game last year. That didn't stop our membership hitting 75K.
Back in the days of an even fixture there still were the big clubs and the not so big clubs.

While it's far from ideal, using the fixture as an excuse is poor. Become successful and get a better fixture.
In the 30 years since the AFL comp, you use last year as an example, it was 'one of' at this point Tige. Better to look at how Benny & the crew had been hard at it for years, thats why all clubs need to do, cos waiting for a premiership year is a sloww burn.
 

#gosaintas

Premiership Player
Nov 11, 2013
3,103
5,327
AFL Club
St Kilda
In the 30 years since the AFL comp, you use last year as an example, it was 'one of' at this point Tige. Better to look at how Benny & the crew had been hard at it for years, thats why all clubs need to do, cos waiting for a premiership year is a sloww burn.
When there was an even fixture Rich went broke and had to be bailed out.
Like Collingwood.
Hawks had a coupla bad years and nearly merged with Melb.

Many clubs get an AFL lift. Scheduling, double ups, interstates, stadia returns, blockbusters and fixtures.
Some don't. This season should be a good one for us financially as we can finally compete. Same goes for WB and Nth. No excuses for us now.
 
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