St Kilda v Adelaide Rd 6 2011

[Fehring]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Ah, of course with regards to Otten, I forgot he did his knee. Last time Hayes did it it took him three years to get back to his best. One off field, and two while playing on a regular basis. The norm is mainly two, though. People who think Knee Recos can jump straight back in are kidding themselves, the recovery goes right through while they're playing again.

Lyon's call on Dal Santo turned a career around, really. Since then the guy has gone from a soft outside mid into an all-out champ.

Think he needs another dropping.

 

[TTTT]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

whats everyones thoughts on mabe playing baker up frwd, not as a goal kicking but just to add a bit of grunt and frwd line pressure. really think st kilda lets the ball out far to easy and it would be getting frustrating for the back six

 

[krusden]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Think he needs another dropping.

Disagree. IMO dal has been one of our best players in a bad bunch

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

whats everyones thoughts on mabe playing baker up frwd, not as a goal kicking but just to add a bit of grunt and frwd line pressure. really think st kilda lets the ball out far to easy and it would be getting frustrating for the back six

Haha , I thought of that myself.
Probably not if mini is doing the job there though.
Baker is not a big a kick for goal, but when he passes by foot, he seems to be pretty accurate, I reckon he could hit a leading forward.
Could do the job on some of those doing an easy rebound, and they would feel it ( some of our players seem to think a tackle is equal to a tap on the shoulder ).

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

whats everyones thoughts on mabe playing baker up frwd, not as a goal kicking but just to add a bit of grunt and frwd line pressure. really think st kilda lets the ball out far to easy and it would be getting frustrating for the back six

Some teams have put a forward tag on Johncock with some success. Really stifles our run as blokes like Rutten, Davis and Doughty are all really slow and don't create much drive from the back half. We rely heavily on Johncock with McLeod and Goodwin gone. Wouldn't surprise me if Baker went to Johncock.

 

[St BKD]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Think he needs another dropping.

for real? your tv been on the blink or something? Dal has been very good this year. How could you drop such a smooth moving elite user like Dal when our disposal has been terrible and he is one of the only ones not lacking composure in congested situations?

and the guy that said he was soft outside player before he was droped.. completely untrue... maybe he lacked on the defensive side of his game and effort. But Dal has never been a soft player. He appears more outside because he is so composed in packs. He never flinches at putting his head over the ball.

In other news how on earth is Sean 'no football brain, no skill' Dempster still getting a fricken game?!?! He is hands down the worst footballer in the AFL.. I just dont understand how he continues to be picked. Ive never seen such a liability in my life.

 

[karmafree]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Just woken up after Easter. I vaguly remember we beat Brisbane, ball bounching off Bakers chest, my tipping my glass to St Fly's perceptive comments about Gilbert a year ago, worry about weather Steven is a fast or slow runner, but happy he could kick straight.

Now I look at the team list and what do I see. Blake, Baker, Dempster, Jones, McQualter all in the same team. Seriously I am not interested in winning home and away games with these guys in the team, they won't win a GF. You can have two of them but thats it.
Great to see Smith, Steven keep their places and expecting Willy J to give us some attitude, welcome to the big time lad.

Love Roo at Full Forward, about time, he can't keep getting banged up like he has with all the running and double and tipple teaming. If they try that now so close to the goal line I expect more inside 50's and more goals from our smalls. Didn't Roo kick 11 goals from full forward against Carlton or Melbourne a few years ago? I expect 6 from him if he stays at full forward for the whole game. This is the key selection for the game IMO

 

[PoppedCorn]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

kicked 9 against the blues in 2006

 

[AFaiL]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Just woken up after Easter. I vaguly remember we beat Brisbane, ball bounching off Bakers chest, my tipping my glass to St Fly's perceptive comments about Gilbert a year ago, worry about weather Steven is a fast or slow runner, but happy he could kick straight.

Now I look at the team list and what do I see. Blake, Baker, Dempster, Jones, McQualter all in the same team. Seriously I am not interested in winning home and away games with these guys in the team, they won't win a GF. You can have two of them but thats it.
Great to see Smith, Steven keep their places and expecting Willy J to give us some attitude, welcome to the big time lad.

Love Roo at Full Forward, about time, he can't keep getting banged up like he has with all the running and double and tipple teaming. If they try that now so close to the goal line I expect more inside 50's and more goals from our smalls. Didn't Roo kick 11 goals from full forward against Carlton or Melbourne a few years ago? I expect 6 from him if he stays at full forward for the whole game. This is the key selection for the game IMO

Isn't that funny. Lyon has a big sook about the crap players he keeps picking, and maybe he is wrong, and play the kids -- and what happens 3 weeks later? The same 4 duds are still running around.

I see through it all, he hasn't changed. This is complete bullshit.

We won't be worse off playing kids over these duds.

McQualter was the effing sub, and had 0 impact, 0! Not good enough. Sick of this really.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

I can't watch too many more games if we don't have a structure which allows us (under pressure, and particularly if conditions are slippery) to kick to normal spots on the forward line and have at least one tall forward to contest.

We moved the ball more quickly against Brisbane in the last quarter, and got good results. But then this has happened in other games, yet it seems we aren't learning a whole hell of a lot for future matches.

We will not win games of footy if our first instinct is to kick sideways/backwards to a player who is either covered or not free to run forwards.

I've got no problems with a switch, especially to someone on the burst, but the better teams are backing their kicking skills to leading players downfield - anyone who gets 5-10m on their man is honoured.

I've lost count of the amount of times we've ignored a good lead, and then waited until the umpire loses patience and calls time on (with the result being a rushed kick to no-one in particular or Riewoldt 3-on-1).

It has to be frustrating for the players giving the leads, and pretty taxing on the body too.

I would much rather see the boys cough it up moving it forward quickly, than taking an eternity to assess the situation. Mind you, Blakey did that against the Cats in Rnd 1 and it cost us the game!

for real? your tv been on the blink or something? Dal has been very good this year. How could you drop such a smooth moving elite user like Dal when our disposal has been terrible and he is one of the only ones not lacking composure in congested situations?

and the guy that said he was soft outside player before he was droped.. completely untrue... maybe he lacked on the defensive side of his game and effort. But Dal has never been a soft player. He appears more outside because he is so composed in packs. He never flinches at putting his head over the ball.

In other news how on earth is Sean 'no football brain, no skill' Dempster still getting a fricken game?!?! He is hands down the worst footballer in the AFL.. I just dont understand how he continues to be picked. Ive never seen such a liability in my life.

Obviously your TV is on the blink. Dempster's game against the Lions was easily his best for the year.

kicked 9 against the blues in 2006

Also kicked 9 against the Dees in a losing effort.

 

[One 2 Roo]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

I think 2 of Blake, Baker, Dempster and Mini is a good fit - 3 at a stretch, but I have to say having all four concerns me. I have said all along that it should be Baker or Dempster - not both. Maybe it is an effort to go small in anticipation of the conditions. Remember the Geelong game last year?

CJ on the other hand has enough runs on the board to not be included in this group.

I would love to see Roo play at FF and bag a good haul of sausage rolls - if this happens, who is going to play CHF? BJ?

 

[The Punter]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Say what you like about McQualter, but he did have an impact on Thursday night by merely not being as ineffective as Stanley. But a sub he ain't. It's clear you need pacy pinch hitters in that spot, someone like Peake or one of the young kids.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

I guess Smith will be sub this week.

I'm happy that Blake is back, but not that happy that we've dropped a forward for a back.

Rebounders: Gram, Gilbert, Fisher, Gwilt.
Dour: Dempster, Baker, Dawson, Blake.

I guess it doesnt matter if Gram and Gilbert go forward, as we always end up with all of them behind the ball.

 

[SAINTACLAUSE]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

wat the hell is going on at the club??? why do we not have any kids coming through to replace mqaulter, blake, dempster,baker etc etc, is the situation that bad with the recruiting that we still need to play these blokes when they clearly arent gona take us any further. Duncan from the cats kicked 3 goals last week against hawthorn and has already won a rising star nomination, he was taken 4 picks before winmar so not much between them according to recruiters, yet we still dont know if this bloke can play!!!!!

 

[saber_32au]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

I guess Smith will be sub this week.

I'm happy that Blake is back, but not that happy that we've dropped a forward for a back.

Rebounders: Gram, Gilbert, Fisher, Gwilt.
Dour: Dempster, Baker, Dawson, Blake.

I guess it doesnt matter if Gram and Gilbert go forward, as we always end up with all of them behind the ball.

[FONT=&quot]Hmm, with Blake back in the team, if I had to send a backmen forward, it would be Gwilt. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Didn’t he used to play as a forward as a youngster? He is also a beautiful long kick. [/FONT]

 

[The Punter]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Myth: St Kilda plays no kids.

2011 Debutants: Daniel Archer, Alistair Smith, Will Johnson (tbc).

Team v Adelaide: Johnson (0 games), Smith (2 games), Steven (11 games), Armitage (32 games), McEvoy (35 games).

Emergencies v Adelaide: Arryn Sipposs, Jamie Cripps, Nicholas Winmar (combined 0 games)

Have also played Rhys Stanley and Ryan Gamble. Stanley has played 9 games, and Gamble 27.

All the players mentioned above are under 23 years of age.

 

[Plugger35]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

It's predicted to be a wet night at AAMI so it's probably not the best place to debut kids like Winmar and Cripps.

Lyon has probably decided to go with the bigger bodied experienced players like Blake, McQualter, Baker etc who will be more effective in those sorts of conditions where it will be a slog.

You'd expect guys like Winmar and Cripps might be a better chance to debut under the roof at Etihad where more pace and skill is required. It's not like we don't have some young players in the team already anyway with Steven, Smith, Armitage and now Johnson all playing.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

No, no, no, we need RUN and PACE from young legs!... in a game certain to be wet, slow and hard at it... er...

 

[St DAC]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Say what you like about McQualter, but he did have an impact on Thursday night by merely not being as ineffective as Stanley. But a sub he ain't. It's clear you need pacy pinch hitters in that spot, someone like Peake or one of the young kids.

And 3 goal assists in the last quarter ...

That clown earlier who said he had no impact wouldn't know impact if it bit him on the arse.

 

[StFly]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

[FONT=&quot]Hmm, with Blake back in the team, if I had to send a backmen forward, it would be Gwilt. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Didn’t he used to play as a forward as a youngster? He is also a beautiful long kick. [/FONT]

He was used as a link up forward, but like every link up forward we've tried using he was basically voided completely when blokes went "oh hey Rooey!" and kicked it 25m over his head to a 3v1 whilst Kosi was tooting his horn to raise the drawbridge or cue up building works to widen the canal for his barge turning.

No I'm not slightly bitter at our midfielders being a bit ******ed in using a link up forward, no not at all, this is but a figment of your imagination!

Anyway, the problem with using someone like BJ is that you lose structure if he then runs in the midfield, basically he's going head to head most weaks so he needs to gut run to be an option forward of centre if he's to play well, Gilbert doesn't want to play forward and wants an oompa loompa now daddy, Blake if he lines up at CHF I am going to vomit, Chips could work and work well but you lose what he gives to the backline which is a brain in quite a few cases, Dempster kicks it like a backman and Gwilt was largely not used despite having a booming left foot.

The problem, is the same problem we had when we tried Eddy there. One game you see them use him, you see Eddy go back and slot it from 55+ with ease, next game you see him in the same position trying to spot someone from 35 as a target instead of backing himself. The problem is one of being selfish or not selfish enough.

Gilbert, Gram & Fisher can be selfish, they can take off they can chase the ball and they can shank it to high hell or fluff it royally and it'll be AOK, but someone like Blake does it and he gets dropped, someone like Raph does it and he gets rubbished. Same with the midfield, Gram, BJ and Joey can run can kick on goal can be entirely selfish even if Rooeyis alone in the square and there'll be claps all round, Armitage does it and next game you won't see him do it again because it's not his "job".

Same thing with Miles when we had him, streaming on the wing beautiful 60m kick, played one more game and was delisted. Smith has a decent kick on him but played inside mid, so what use is that hey? And oops I think I tangent a few times there, oh well, you get the point I'm sure.

Personally, I'd use Faz (Ray) decent on both sides, can take a contested mark, can use the footy and is considered excess midfield rotation, why not have him as a lead up forward for quick ball movement?

 

[krusden]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

wat the hell is going on at the club??? why do we not have any kids coming through to replace mqaulter, blake, dempster,baker etc etc, is the situation that bad with the recruiting that we still need to play these blokes when they clearly arent gona take us any further. Duncan from the cats kicked 3 goals last week against hawthorn and has already won a rising star nomination, he was taken 4 picks before winmar so not much between them according to recruiters, yet we still dont know if this bloke can play!!!!!

and the youngsters the cats have debuted are in and out of the side.

I'd prefer to see a winmar in say in 2 weeks and STAY in.

 

[Squizz]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

Yeah, agree with Fly - Gwilt has never worked as a forward. Not because he isn't capable, but because no-one seems to want to kick it to him (even 40m out on the boundary in 10m of space - I'd back him to go close with these shots).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

wat the hell is going on at the club??? why do we not have any kids coming through to replace mqaulter, blake, dempster,baker etc etc, is the situation that bad with the recruiting that we still need to play these blokes when they clearly arent gona take us any further. Duncan from the cats kicked 3 goals last week against hawthorn and has already won a rising star nomination, he was taken 4 picks before winmar so not much between them according to recruiters, yet we still dont know if this bloke can play!!!!!

I share the pain.
It was frustrating to see Jack Darling last night, knowing that we passed on him last year. Ah well hopefully Johnson can be our answer to him.
Even the 2008 Draft, of those taken immediately after our first pick there are a lot who have played very good footy already.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

He was used as a link up forward, but like every link up forward we've tried using he was basically voided completely when blokes went "oh hey Rooey!" and kicked it 25m over his head to a 3v1 whilst Kosi was tooting his horn to raise the drawbridge or cue up building works to widen the canal for his barge turning.

No I'm not slightly bitter at our midfielders being a bit ******ed in using a link up forward, no not at all, this is but a figment of your imagination!

Anyway, the problem with using someone like BJ is that you lose structure if he then runs in the midfield, basically he's going head to head most weaks so he needs to gut run to be an option forward of centre if he's to play well, Gilbert doesn't want to play forward and wants an oompa loompa now daddy, Blake if he lines up at CHF I am going to vomit, Chips could work and work well but you lose what he gives to the backline which is a brain in quite a few cases, Dempster kicks it like a backman and Gwilt was largely not used despite having a booming left foot.

The problem, is the same problem we had when we tried Eddy there. One game you see them use him, you see Eddy go back and slot it from 55+ with ease, next game you see him in the same position trying to spot someone from 35 as a target instead of backing himself. The problem is one of being selfish or not selfish enough.

Gilbert, Gram & Fisher can be selfish, they can take off they can chase the ball and they can shank it to high hell or fluff it royally and it'll be AOK, but someone like Blake does it and he gets dropped, someone like Raph does it and he gets rubbished. Same with the midfield, Gram, BJ and Joey can run can kick on goal can be entirely selfish even if Rooeyis alone in the square and there'll be claps all round, Armitage does it and next game you won't see him do it again because it's not his "job".

Same thing with Miles when we had him, streaming on the wing beautiful 60m kick, played one more game and was delisted. Smith has a decent kick on him but played inside mid, so what use is that hey? And oops I think I tangent a few times there, oh well, you get the point I'm sure.

Personally, I'd use Faz (Ray) decent on both sides, can take a contested mark, can use the footy and is considered excess midfield rotation, why not have him as a lead up forward for quick ball movement?

Great rant. I agree with a hell of a lot of that.
Anyone remember Fraser Gehrig. He came back from retirement, but then was dropped after 5 years because he was too crippled with injury to be effective. He kicked 9 goals in those 5 games. Last year Kosi took 8 games before he kicked 9 goals.

 

[The Punter]

Re: St Kilda v Adelaide

I was always a champion of Gwilt in the Hamill role. Strongest bloke below the hips at the club since Gehrig, beautiful kick and good in the clinches.

However, I'm completely happy with where he is now - thought his job on Clark last week was underrated considering he did get four goals kicked on him.

On Kosi/Gehrig, the game has changed a bit since 2008 - I noticed that when I watched the highlights DVD the other day. Also, Gehrig was almost certainly a better footballer that Kosi, or anyone we have now other than Riewoldt.