St Kilda's development and drafting

RobbieGray17

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Thread starter #1
David King pointed it out today that they don't have enough elite players.

I thought I'd go through the stats and see if it stacks up, and it doesn't look as if St Kilda have developed their players, brought the right structure to their list, and or drafted the right players. Now there will be some discrepancies due to any up and coming players that are rising fast.

Key defenders are ranked very poorly, in fact only Hawthorn and Port Adelaide have lower ranked key defenders, but both have good small defenders.

Small defenders are also quite lowly ranked with 4 of their players being ranked very poorly. Defensively overall the saints don't have any highly ranked talent.

Midfielders they have one player I'm not sure is technically elite. I'm not sure on the numbers, but Steven is their only close to elite player. Their other players are not consistent players as David King mentioned and their overall midfield talent is terrible.

Overall in the forward line, they have a reasonably robust small forward setup.

In the ruck, they have possibly the worst and most under-performing ruck setup in the competition.

I think the overarching realization here is that they have not drafted the right players or given them the right structure to developing talent, and that they have drafted quite poorly.

Give your thoughts


Key Defenders

Jake Carlile at overall 286, position 29
Nathan Brown 319, position 34

Small Medium Defenders
Savage overall 158, position 22
Roberton 164, 24
Gilbert 187, 31
Geary 212, 37

Midfielders
Steven, overall 17, position 14
Ross, 51, position 32
Newnes 116
Dunstan 159
STeele 169

Key Forwards
Bruce 257, position 22

Mid Forwards
Acres 266, position 15
Sinclair 209, position 18

Small Forwards
Memberey 119, 15
Gresham 129, 17
Billings 153, 19

Ruck

Hickey, 249, 15
Longer, 356, 23
 

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#2
David King pointed it out today that they don't have enough elite players.

I thought I'd go through the stats and see if it stacks up, and it doesn't look as if St Kilda have developed their players, brought the right structure to their list, and or drafted the right players. Now there will be some discrepancies due to any up and coming players that are rising fast.

Key defenders are ranked very poorly, in fact only Hawthorn and Port Adelaide have lower ranked key defenders, but both have good small defenders.

Small defenders are also quite lowly ranked with 4 of their players being ranked very poorly. Defensively overall the saints don't have any highly ranked talent.

Midfielders they have one player I'm not sure is technically elite. I'm not sure on the numbers, but Steven is their only close to elite player. Their other players are not consistent players as David King mentioned and their overall midfield talent is terrible.

Overall in the forward line, they have a reasonably robust small forward setup.

In the ruck, they have possibly the worst and most under-performing ruck setup in the competition.

I think the overarching realization here is that they have not drafted the right players or given them the right structure to developing talent, and that they have drafted quite poorly.

Give your thoughts


Key Defenders

Jake Carlile at overall 286, position 29
Nathan Brown 319, position 34

Small Medium Defenders
Savage overall 158, position 22
Roberton 164, 24
Gilbert 187, 31
Geary 212, 37

Midfielders
Steven, overall 17, position 14
Ross, 51, position 32
Newnes 116
Dunstan 159
STeele 169

Key Forwards
Bruce 257, position 22

Mid Forwards
Acres 266, position 15
Sinclair 209, position 18

Small Forwards
Memberey 119, 15
Gresham 129, 17
Billings 153, 19

Ruck

Hickey, 249, 15
Longer, 356, 23
Struggling to see any truly elite players on their list. Makes me wonder who David King has pencilled in as elite.
 

MollyBana

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#4
We have elite players. We have drafted well couldve been better but how? Hindsight isnt available We have horrific coaches and theres issues at moorabbin between everyone.
Get new improved coaches and the team will improve.

Richo and the brigade of under qualified coaches need to be replaced. And quickly. Unfortunetly this is stkilda and we have no money.

Looking over the pre season it was a real
Love in with any simmering tensions pushed under the rug.

Simply put richo too nice, too hung up on pressure and stats and doesnt have the respect/fear of the players.

Dissapointing. Can only pray the board realise this. The love in needs to stop. All
Pre season was jokes and smiles and candy for all.
 

BallaratBulldog

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#5
I thought they were going to be a little bit worse losing a few experienced gun players to retirement, but not that bad.
 

Juddernaut08

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#6
We have elite players. We have drafted well couldve been better but how? Hindsight isnt available We have horrific coaches and theres issues at moorabbin between everyone.
Get new improved coaches and the team will improve.

Richo and the brigade of under qualified coaches need to be replaced. And quickly. Unfortunetly this is stkilda and we have no money.

Looking over the pre season it was a real
Love in with any simmering tensions pushed under the rug.

Simply put richo too nice, too hung up on pressure and stats and doesnt have the respect/fear of the players.

Dissapointing. Can only pray the board realise this. The love in needs to stop. All
Pre season was jokes and smiles and candy for all.
how have you drafted well???

at best, you have drafted.
 

Tas

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#7
David King pointed it out today that they don't have enough elite players.

I thought I'd go through the stats and see if it stacks up, and it doesn't look as if St Kilda have developed their players, brought the right structure to their list, and or drafted the right players. Now there will be some discrepancies due to any up and coming players that are rising fast.

Key defenders are ranked very poorly, in fact only Hawthorn and Port Adelaide have lower ranked key defenders, but both have good small defenders.

Small defenders are also quite lowly ranked with 4 of their players being ranked very poorly. Defensively overall the saints don't have any highly ranked talent.

Midfielders they have one player I'm not sure is technically elite. I'm not sure on the numbers, but Steven is their only close to elite player. Their other players are not consistent players as David King mentioned and their overall midfield talent is terrible.

Overall in the forward line, they have a reasonably robust small forward setup.

In the ruck, they have possibly the worst and most under-performing ruck setup in the competition.

I think the overarching realization here is that they have not drafted the right players or given them the right structure to developing talent, and that they have drafted quite poorly.

Give your thoughts


Key Defenders

Jake Carlile at overall 286, position 29
Nathan Brown 319, position 34

Small Medium Defenders
Savage overall 158, position 22
Roberton 164, 24
Gilbert 187, 31
Geary 212, 37

Midfielders
Steven, overall 17, position 14
Ross, 51, position 32
Newnes 116
Dunstan 159
STeele 169

Key Forwards
Bruce 257, position 22

Mid Forwards
Acres 266, position 15
Sinclair 209, position 18

Small Forwards
Memberey 119, 15
Gresham 129, 17
Billings 153, 19

Ruck

Hickey, 249, 15
Longer, 356, 23

David King is a flip flopping chameleon.

After seven years out of the finals and a strong finish to 2017, David King says St Kilda supporters have every right to demand finals football from their team in 2018.

"I think the St Kilda fans they're happy, they're content, but they're on the point of frustration. They want a result this year,” King said on SEN Mornings.



For the Saints to play finals football, they will need their quality players to shine through, and King says the speedy Jack Steven can be the man who drives the club up the ladder.

"Everyone is waiting for a star to jump up. I just think Jack Steven said I am that man (during the JLT matches),” he said.

“Seb Ross is a good player, but I don’t think he has the ceiling that Jack Steven has got.”

After a dismal first up showing against Carlton, it was much improved performance against Melbourne, one which the former North Melbourne premiership player feels showed that coach Alan Richardson has talent to work with.

“The Saints I thought were in real trouble early in that first quarter. It looked like a ten goal game,” King said.

“To hit the lead mid-late third quarter was a huge performance.

“There’s something there to work with, but I’m at a bit of a loss to where to put them to be honest. I probably even got them in the eight at this stage.

“There’s enough here with Ross, and (Blake) Acres, (Jack) Steele, (Jack) Billings and (Jack) Newnes through the midfield, (Luke) Dunstan has played some good football.”
This is from freaking 18 days ago... https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/03/12/theyre-content-but-theyre-on-the-point-of-frustration/
 

Juddernaut08

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#8
Time to rebuild. Hit the draft and build around ross, billings and carlisle. everyone else should be trade bait.

Trade Steven. Hes 28 and a team like Adelaide may give up 2 first rounders like they did for Gibbs.

Give McCartin to Blues.
 

Off The Couch

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#9
Time to rebuild. Hit the draft and build around ross, billings and carlisle. everyone else should be trade bait.

Trade Steven. Hes 28 and a team like Adelaide may give up 2 first rounders like they did for Gibbs.

Give McCartin to Blues.
You don’t think they’ve already had a good run at the draft - the issue could lie with development and all the drafting in the world won’t help that. There seems to be an over abundance of the same type of player plus throw in the fact that they aren’t a destination club and it seems the pain may continue.
 

Juddernaut08

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#10
You don’t think they’ve already had a good run at the draft - the issue could lie with development and all the drafting in the world won’t help that. There seems to be an over abundance of the same type of player plus throw in the fact that they aren’t a destination club and it seems the pain may continue.
I think they tried to fast track to quickly with getting in Carlisle. Who have they really drafted? Billings thats it.
 

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Off The Couch

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#12
How many high draft picks have they had? How long have they been rebuilding for?

They lack heart. Seriously lack heart and soul.
Pick 7 and 8 - 2017
Pick 1 - 2014
Pick 3 - 2013

So yes you’re right - haven’t had that many afterall or if they have and I can’t be bothered researching, they’ve passed them on.... but for who
 

Jcpdragonx

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#13
Pick 7 and 8 - 2017
Pick 1 - 2014
Pick 3 - 2013

So yes you’re right - haven’t had that many afterall or if they have and I can’t be bothered researching, they’ve passed them on.... but for who
They gave up a lot for Carlisle

Sacking Richardson is the first step, hes a deadbeat. I don't mind the idea of trading Steven even though he's the heart and soul of the club, how else can they get first round picks? Delist Stevens for sure, play Dunstan
 

Off The Couch

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They gave up a lot for Carlisle

Sacking Richardson is the first step, hes a deadbeat. I don't mind the idea of trading Steven even though he's the heart and soul of the club, how else can they get first round picks? Delist Stevens for sure, play Dunstan
If Dunstan can’t get a gig in this team then he’s either no chop or there’s a clash between him and the coach so I can’t see them getting rid of Stevens to play Dunstan
 

RobbieGray17

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Thread starter #17
If Dunstan can’t get a gig in this team then he’s either no chop or there’s a clash between him and the coach so I can’t see them getting rid of Stevens to play Dunstan
Dunstan is an interesting player, could be really good, probably won't. reminds me a bit of Hartlett.
 

Tulip

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#19
Dunstan is an interesting player, could be really good, probably won't. reminds me a bit of Hartlett.
Hartlett was way better, Dunstan can't kick.

St Kilda have handy players on all lines. Carlisle, Roberton, Newnes, Steven, Ross, Gresham, Billings, Bruce, Membrey. They'll come good. I was hoping they'd be able to give Paddy 22 games and nurse him through the first months until he becomes confident, but its just not going to happen. They need to play a smaller forward line.
 

RobbieGray17

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Thread starter #20
Hartlett was way better, Dunstan can't kick.

St Kilda have handy players on all lines. Carlisle, Roberton, Newnes, Steven, Ross, Gresham, Billings, Bruce, Membrey. They'll come good. I was hoping they'd be able to give Paddy 22 games and nurse him through the first months until he becomes confident, but its just not going to happen. They need to play a smaller forward line.
Just watched highlights from a big disposal game from Dunstan vs Sydney and the majority of his disposals were terrible and ineffective. He lacks skill or any level of polish. He looks average at best. Probably explains why he isn't playing.
 

underthestars

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#21
Unbelievable Richo dropped Dunstan after being our best performed player over the last 6 games of last year and one of our best in the jlt. worse it was for a journeyman to tag zorko. we still got creamed inside and worse, they left the side unchanged today.
still dunstan plays better down at sandy, as most do (36 disposals today), away from the garbage game plan and dulling influence of richo.
""Going back and playing VFL, I was able to go back and play on instincts again and just rediscover how to play how I grew up playing and what initially got me drafted," Dunstan said."
Dinny Navaratnam
Dec 8, 2017 12:24PM afl.com.au

hmm.
 

blitzer

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#22
St.Kilda just have too many players that are good but not great. In fact I don't know if they've got a single guy on their list who you would say is out and out an elite player - someone who regularly competes and achieves AA status.
 

underthestars

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#23
Just watched highlights from a big disposal game from Dunstan vs Sydney and the majority of his disposals were terrible and ineffective. He lacks skill or any level of polish. He looks average at best. Probably explains why he isn't playing.
let's compare him with someone we all know can play - ollie wines - averages at 22 years of age. Wines the better record, but not that much in it, and note disposal efficiency. Watching one game is hardly indicative.
Dunstan - Wines
10.4 Kicks Per Game 11.9
11.2 Handballs Per Game 14.3
21.6 Disposals Per Game 26.2
4.2
Marks Per Game 2.9
0.6 Goals Per Game 0.5
0.6 Behinds Per Game 0.6
4.9 Tackles Per Game 5.8
3.8 Inside 50s Per Game 4.2
0.8
Goal Assists Per Game 0.5
8.3 Contested Possessions Per Game 13.7
12.9
Uncontested Possessions Per Game 12.3
16.1 Effective Disposals Per Game 15.6
74.5% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 59.5%
2.5 Clangers Per Game 4.7
0.1 Contested Marks Per Game 0.4
0.6
Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.4
 

RobbieGray17

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Thread starter #24
St.Kilda just have too many players that are good but not great. In fact I don't know if they've got a single guy on their list who you would say is out and out an elite player - someone who regularly competes and achieves AA status.
Put it this way, if they had a fire sale you would probably throw some money in for

Steven, Billings, Gresham and Carlile.
 

RobbieGray17

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Thread starter #25
let's compare him with someone we all know can play - ollie wines - averages at 22 years of age. Wines the better record, but not that much in it, and note disposal efficiency. Watching one game is hardly indicative. Disposal efficiency is not realistic for guys that pack hunt like Fyfe and Wines.

Dunstan - Wines
10.4 Kicks Per Game 11.9
11.2 Handballs Per Game 14.3
21.6 Disposals Per Game 26.2
4.2
Marks Per Game 2.9
0.6 Goals Per Game 0.5
0.6 Behinds Per Game 0.6
4.9 Tackles Per Game 5.8
3.8 Inside 50s Per Game 4.2
0.8
Goal Assists Per Game 0.5
8.3 Contested Possessions Per Game 13.7
12.9
Uncontested Possessions Per Game 12.3
16.1 Effective Disposals Per Game 15.6
74.5% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 59.5%
2.5 Clangers Per Game 4.7
0.1 Contested Marks Per Game 0.4
0.6
Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.4
This is the video I was referring to. His disposals didn't really impact. Ollie is a lot more impacting but his disposal efficiency is hurt because he pack gets. Dunstan does not.
 
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