St Kilda's development and drafting

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ScrappyDo

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 29, 2018
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Saints drafting IMO has actually been pretty good, with the exception of the rucks (just poor luck) and lack of outside running types which the club is trying to address.
Paddy, Goddad, Dunstan, Acres, Billings are all first rounders and have all suffered substantial injuries in their first few years. (Freeman was also in the Billings draft) I suspect if you were to cripple 5/6 top picks from two consecutive draft intakes at any club for a year or two each, then you would see an identical result in the group development.
Saints are a year or two behind the 2020 projection, and the club and coach are well aware of it, although lack the gumpshun to state it publicly coz they would be panned in the media. I think this is why they gave Richo an otherwise unjustifiable 2 year extension. If you cast ahead 2 years we will lose, Gilbert, Brown, Armo, Geary from our normal best 22. They will be replaced by Clark, Coffield, 2018 R1 and 2019 R1 picks plus any FA that they can bribe to come over. Not a bad set of ins and outs IMO. Saints supporters just have to suck it up for another couple of years. Biggest problem going forward is getting a proper set of coaches to adderss our deplorable skills, lack of coherent game strategy and lethargic performances. Richo is our rebuild manager, he won't likely survive past 2020.
 

D2D3

Club Legend
May 20, 2015
2,651
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how have you drafted well???

at best, you have drafted.
Imo we had one bad year drafting and that was 2014. Unfortunatly that year really hurts given we had pick 1.

Billings isnt as good as Bont but Bont wasnt even rated top 5 by most 'experts' and Billings is more than good enough to justify being taken at 3. Same goes for Acres and Dunston that year. Both have justified where they were taken. Gresham I'd think was self explanitory, Long and Battle have both showed a bit (we'll see in a year if that year was bad too) and Clark and Coffield both look good at this stage.

2014 is really hurting right now though
 

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D2D3

Club Legend
May 20, 2015
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St.Kilda just have too many players that are good but not great. In fact I don't know if they've got a single guy on their list who you would say is out and out an elite player - someone who regularly competes and achieves AA status.
^^^ literally this
 

Young Gun #6

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May 24, 2008
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St.Kilda just have too many players that are good but not great. In fact I don't know if they've got a single guy on their list who you would say is out and out an elite player - someone who regularly competes and achieves AA status.

Also they have 2 good player over the height of 190cm (Carlisle and Robertson) and they used a top 5 pick to get one (Carlisle).

The lack of a decent ruckman, decent key position forwards and defenders is their biggest issue. They have plenty of good mids and small forwards but basically no decent Key Position players.
 
Oct 9, 2006
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We have elite players. We have drafted well couldve been better but how? Hindsight isnt available We have horrific coaches and theres issues at moorabbin between everyone.
Get new improved coaches and the team will improve.

Richo and the brigade of under qualified coaches need to be replaced. And quickly. Unfortunetly this is stkilda and we have no money.

Looking over the pre season it was a real
Love in with any simmering tensions pushed under the rug.

Simply put richo too nice, too hung up on pressure and stats and doesnt have the respect/fear of the players.

Dissapointing. Can only pray the board realise this. The love in needs to stop. All
Pre season was jokes and smiles and candy for all.

Seems there is always issues at St Kilda, coach is looking doubtful, and Ross Lyon had a rough time there too, couldn't make the grade, two tries with them.

His out of the blue win against Essendon with Freo yesterday, still leaves me thinking??? Lyon is always just off.

But Richardson I simply don't know , one year they look like world beaters then fall in a hole , next year they're tying to get out of a hole.

Who can tell in this era, the games looked grubby and scrappy with no flow yesterday.
 

Red Bull

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 29, 2010
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Saints are in serious trouble, there going to bottom of the ladder for a while, have completely stuffed up their recruiting and drafting strategies, have no star players and the rest are mostly below average at best

Room booked as they know the manager there well .
27 and 1 ain't no fluke ...
 
May 27, 2017
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The most enjoyable part of the loss was listening to Richo try to complete two sentences without his typical "positive" or "pleasing".

The man can't even Plan B a press conference.

We are a side that likes to run and counter-attack. You bottle us up, like North did very well, and we have no answers.
 

Desi Van_83

Team Captain
Aug 4, 2013
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I wrote on another thread that I was optimistic about Paddy. I am no longer of that opinion. I think he will go down as one of, if not the biggest drafting disaster in the clubs history, when the respective careers of he and Petracca are concluded. That aside, we've done ok, but not brilliantly. We haven't had the number of high draft pics that many seem to think. We've had a few years of first rounders, but most have been back end first rounders. We've got some decent talent coming through. We need to be patient, as fuken ever. We Need to recruit A grade mids, A grade key back and maybe a key forward to replace Paddy. Maybe I'm being harsh on the kid. But sweet Jesus, how did our recruiters ever decide that he was a better option than Petracca? Did they all put magic mushies in their pasta the night before draft night? That is a serious question.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Same sort of boat as Brisbane: Our top picks we have left are McCluggage at Pick 2 and Raynor Pick 1. Thats in the last 5 or so years. And we have a few of our picks in the teens and some others who look promising. We dont have the likes of Oliver, Hogan, Petracca and Brayshaw from multiple early picks.

Yes, the go home 5 was our own fault and yes, using Pick 2 on Schache has clearly backfired.
 

Rubber Snake

Team Captain
Sep 9, 2016
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Geary is at best, a solid defender at club level,and he's the Saints Captain ? Go figure.........
 

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fnerd

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 23, 2009
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^^^ literally this
Yeah pretty much tho I'd argue exactly just how many of them are even"good"?
Just an across the board average football side really, with a smattering of decent players , no stars (jack Steven borderline)

This is where the mccartin pick and to a lesser extent billings(who I rate btw) hurts the most
 

theprospect

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Sep 26, 2016
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Saints are in serious trouble, there going to bottom of the ladder for a while, have completely stuffed up their recruiting and drafting strategies, have no star players and the rest are mostly below average at best
I'd be pretty concerned about your mob if I were you right now. Both sides have a lot of issues.

Edit - Saying we have no star players and the rest are mostly below average, doesn't make sense. Are you saying all of them are below average?
 

Ian Dunross

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Mar 18, 2013
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Maybe we need a s**t year for the club to wake up to the mediocrity in the coaches box
 
Apr 18, 2005
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We have elite players. We have drafted well couldve been better but how? Hindsight isnt available We have horrific coaches and theres issues at moorabbin between everyone.
Get new improved coaches and the team will improve.

Richo and the brigade of under qualified coaches need to be replaced. And quickly. Unfortunetly this is stkilda and we have no money.

Looking over the pre season it was a real
Love in with any simmering tensions pushed under the rug.

Simply put richo too nice, too hung up on pressure and stats and doesnt have the respect/fear of the players.

Dissapointing. Can only pray the board realise this. The love in needs to stop. All
Pre season was jokes and smiles and candy for all.
Who is elite?
 

MollyBana

Team Captain
Mar 28, 2018
489
468
AFL Club
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Who is elite?
I shouldve said elite talent.
We have 2 elite players atm but they are both A- not A+.
I gather all A graders are elite but even they have levels. Levels on levels LOL.

Anyway yes I believe we have a lot
Of elite talent but with bad coaching and coaches (and culture) we wont see them turn into elite players.
Tom Lynch (adel) is an example.
Crystal Ball - Dunstan leaves for Crows and becomes star in 2020.
 
Aug 13, 2006
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I don't buy the star players talk.

Steven isn't a top 10 guy but he fills the role as a best player and can break games open. Ross is the perfect 2nd best guy. Billings is exactly where a young mid/forward silky skilled player should be besides the goal kicking. Acres and Gresham are beauties. Carlisle is a good B+ key defender. McCartin is what he is for now but keep persisting.

The Saints problem right now is the eternal problem that comes in the deep deep dive rebuild of a really poor list where you have to fill the team with a lot of average senior players who help get you towards the 8 but don't get you further. Then as attrition of those guys who can play 100 or so games but aren't really the 150+ gamers start to drop away, plus the veterans retire and the development of youth doesn't catch up and progress stalls.

The players I'm talking about are: Savage, out of form Membrey and Bruce, Nathan Brown, Koby Stevens, Mav Weller and maybe if I'm being very harsh even Jack Steele. Guys brought in to plug gaps and they do for a while but eventually they start to become the gap again.

Alongside Riewoldt and Montagna and with some early rebuild guys like Webster and Newnes looking good you've got a team that can push for the 8. But Webster and Newnes levelled off, the veterans retired and those gap fillers weren't permanent fixtures.

The Saints will get back on track - as quick as next week, next month or new year or two. They're just coming from a long way back.
 

Farm Boy

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 6, 2015
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Dunstan
Gresham
Billings
Steven
Ross

I’d have them all


Gresham
has the potential to be elite, but at present that is all it is - potential (could quite easily go the other way as well).
Billings is heading towards the elite bracket.
Acres seems to of slipped under my guard and has many touting him as our next star player. They looked to be right round 1, round 2 not so much so I will reserve my judgement.
Steven is one of the most overrated players in the comp, and isn't a great kick, I really believe he tries to do too much.
Ross is probably our only elite player we have IMO. He is elite, had a great year last year and actually performs at a high level consistently.
 

Farm Boy

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 6, 2015
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I don't buy the star players talk.

Steven isn't a top 10 guy but he fills the role as a best player and can break games open. Ross is the perfect 2nd best guy. Billings is exactly where a young mid/forward silky skilled player should be besides the goal kicking. Acres and Gresham are beauties. Carlisle is a good B+ key defender. McCartin is what he is for now but keep persisting.

The Saints problem right now is the eternal problem that comes in the deep deep dive rebuild of a really poor list where you have to fill the team with a lot of average senior players who help get you towards the 8 but don't get you further. Then as attrition of those guys who can play 100 or so games but aren't really the 150+ gamers start to drop away, plus the veterans retire and the development of youth doesn't catch up and progress stalls.

The players I'm talking about are: Savage, out of form Membrey and Bruce, Nathan Brown, Koby Stevens, Mav Weller and maybe if I'm being very harsh even Jack Steele. Guys brought in to plug gaps and they do for a while but eventually they start to become the gap again.

Alongside Riewoldt and Montagna and with some early rebuild guys like Webster and Newnes looking good you've got a team that can push for the 8. But Webster and Newnes levelled off, the veterans retired and those gap fillers weren't permanent fixtures.

The Saints will get back on track - as quick as next week, next month or new year or two. They're just coming from a long way back.

Savage has been pretty good so far this year. He should have a good year. Steele is one that needs to lift, especially given that he is positioned in an area of weakness - we are lacking inside players who scrap for the footy (that is Jack Steele's job). We got smashed on the weekend because no one wanted to dig in and fight. It looked like we had nothing to play for. Jack Steele would be the first one I would go over to and give a spray, because he is one guy who should set that tone. When that ball hits the deck he needs to be all over it, and if he isn't then he won't even be a gap player. We need players who are willing to play for the jumper, and not just the pay check.
 
Aug 13, 2006
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Same sort of boat as Brisbane: Our top picks we have left are McCluggage at Pick 2 and Raynor Pick 1. Thats in the last 5 or so years. And we have a few of our picks in the teens and some others who look promising. We dont have the likes of Oliver, Hogan, Petracca and Brayshaw from multiple early picks.

Yes, the go home 5 was our own fault and yes, using Pick 2 on Schache has clearly backfired.
He's struggling right now but Hipwood is fantastic and makes up for Schache. Melbourne aced the Oliver pick but Weideman is a slow build like Schache seemed to be.

Harris Andrew's and McStay are nice pieces as well, just have to get that consistent form. Berry is a nice player too.

The difference between getting labelled star youth and not going anywhere can be small. Winning games makes the media take kindly to your kids. Raynor looks like he can make that leap pretty quickly and if Hipwood goes with him then you've got the marquee midfield beast/resting forward and key forward.

My question to Brisbane fans regarding their elite young talent is where is Witherden at - stats were far better than output on the weekend and rumours of a bad preseason? Because Witherden is a legit A grader on last year. And what's the deal with McCluggage, his lack of physicality has really disappointed me. He's lucky he's out of the spotlight. A pick 3 playing like he does for a big Victorian team would be copping a heap of scrutiny.
 
Sep 8, 2008
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What happened to Hugh Goddard? He looked a talent.
not sure if anyone replied yet but,

He ruptured his achilles in 2016 season against adelaide which is a year long injury, returned to VFL last season to build form but suffered a different injury that required surgery ending his 2017. Hopefully he fights back from not a lot of footy in 2 years.
 

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