Stadium Capacity vs Crowds

[footyfan1978]

The other 16 clubs aren't really affected, though. If Gold Coast vs Freo is played in Perth are Adelaide more or less affected than if it's played in Melbourne or Perth or Honolulu?

Of course they are. You just not thought about it.
Crows with 11 home games miss finals to a team, with 12 home games with Freo being just above them, you would be unfairly missing finals based on the club above you only making finals and you not based on an extra win from 12 home games compared your 11. It is just plain wrong.
If Gold Coast cannot play in Gold Coast, fair enough but moving their home game to venues that not home for their direct opponent is only fair way it should have been done.

 

[PurpleHornet]

Of course they are. You just not thought about it.
Crows with 11 home games miss finals to a team, with 12 home games with Freo being just above them, you would be unfairly missing finals based on the club above you only making finals and you not based on an extra win from 12 home games compared your 11. It is just plain wrong.
If Gold Coast cannot play in Gold Coast, fair enough but moving their home game to venues that not home for their direct opponent is only fair way it should have been done.

Pretty sure Carlton play at least one ‘away’ game a the MCG this year?

Look, I see your point but Gold Coast chose to sell their rights to their home game to the highest bidder. If they chose to play at, say Manuka, they would have to pay to hire the venue, travel to Canberra, play in front of about 5K people, travel back to Gold Coast and then get on a plane to Perth the following week to play West Coast.

At least they made some money and cut down on their travel by playing Freo in Perth.

 

[footyfan1978]

Pretty sure Carlton play at least one ‘away’ game a the MCG this year?

We play no team at MCG where we are the away team and the home team is from across other side of nation.
Context mate.... context... we all know Gold Coast playing at Fremantle's homeground where Fremantle is away team is nothing short of Fremantle getting effectively a 12th home game for season when the 16 other clubs not involved in game can only have 11 home games. It is just plain wrong for this to happen.

Look, I see your point but Gold Coast chose to sell their rights to their home game to the highest bidder. If they chose to play at, say Manuka, they would have to pay to hire the venue, travel to Canberra, play in front of about 5K people, travel back to Gold Coast and then get on a plane to Perth the following week to play West Coast.

At least they made some money and cut down on their travel by playing Freo in Perth.

I completely understand the financial attraction of them playing Fremantle and Fremante's home ground and pocketing the cash, but the league themselves should simply have not allowed any team to have 12 home games and it clearly unfair to a club not involved in game that now can rightly feel pissed off in Fremantle just above them on ladder at finals time because of this integrity issue to whole ladder status.

Otherwise we just throw the whole thing up in air and open market to selling home games to highest bidder and ladder spots to qualify for finals is decided that way.... It is clearly unacceptable. Letting it happen for one game or 100 games in the fixture is totally wrong on principle. Should never have happened. People accept it though which shows just how the masses accept things like this as normal.

 

[Gydafud]

Edit: Ok, here we are after Round 4 for real this time.



Something kind of weird to note. Hawthorn took 2 home games to EXACTLY fill the capacity of the MCG. I can also see those top 3 not really changing over the course of the season. Collingwood should get a good boost to their numbers next week.

And progression to the cap.

 

[Gydafud]

After Round 5. Collingwood finally got the boost it needed after only 1 home game up until this point.



Total progress.

 

[Gydafud]

After Round 6.



Geelong now the furthest along to hitting their theoretical cap.

 

[estibador]

Of course they are. You just not thought about it.
Crows with 11 home games miss finals to a team, with 12 home games with Freo being just above them, you would be unfairly missing finals based on the club above you only making finals and you not based on an extra win from 12 home games compared your 11. It is just plain wrong.

And how is that any different from a Vic team who only travels interstate 4 times unfairly pipping another Vic team who had to travel interstate 5 or 6 times?

Or a team who played Carlton twice unfairly pipping a team who played Richmond twice?

In a league where the entire fixture is an inequitable farce, you seem very selective about which parts to be outraged against.

 

[footyfan1978]

In a league where the entire fixture is an inequitable farce, you seem very selective about which parts to be outraged against.

So Wrong, There is a lot of the fixtures that I find various degrees of farce but the most fundamental fair foundation of fixture is each club has same amount of home games and away games. This is the worst one I have seen. A club getting 12 home games is a ******* disgrace. You club clearly getting charity beyond anything I seen before. Gold Coast had a unique issue of not being able to play their home games at Gold Coast for many months. But the league should have had any home game of theirs in that time at least at a venue that not giving another club a virtual 12th home game. It is incredible farce. Fremantle must be a new charity project fairy-tale for league as it just should not have happened for integrity of ladder order. In the unlikely event Fremantle were 8th at end of round 23 and any other of other 16 clubs missed qualifying for finals in 9th due to Fremantle having an unfair extra home game over that club, we got a very serious problem. Very serious. This is not some minor thing where some club just gets lucky draw, This had been handed to Fremantle knowing it is an extra home game. I am still stunned it happened. Gil is a ******* joke because of this in my eyes. The sooner Steve Hocking fixes up the mess of some of these clowns that ran operations before him, the better.

A Fremantle fan trying to deflect and defend this farce is a joke to me. Your views so biased worthless.

 

[Scotland]

And how is that any different from a Vic team who only travels interstate 4 times unfairly pipping another Vic team who had to travel interstate 5 or 6 times?

Or a team who played Carlton twice unfairly pipping a team who played Richmond twice?

In a league where the entire fixture is an inequitable farce, you seem very selective about which parts to be outraged against.

This. I used to think something like this was a big deal but it really isn't.

The AFL is a manufactured comp, not a true H&A fixture.

Collingwood made the GF in 2003 having left Victoria 4 times. Two trips to Adelaide, one to Brisbane, one to Sydney. By comparison Essendon (the next best Vic team) did the same plus a trip to Perth. They lost to Freo then lost the following week to Richmond... We're talking about a 15 win side and a 13 win side here.

In 2010 they (Collingwood) played 14 games at the MCG including the last 7 in a row. By comparison our 1990 side (going back a while) played at Carrara and Kardinia Park the last two rounds, then 4 consecutive finals at Waverley. The AFL fixture is full of quirks and inequities.

 

[Scotland]

A Fremantle fan trying to deflect and defend this farce is a joke to me. Your views so biased worthless.

What about a West Coast fan saying the same thing? If any club is at a disadvantage out of this it's the other Perth club that only has 11 home games.

Guess what - we don't care. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Teams played home games at the SCG and Gabba for years when their home grounds were available.

 

[estibador]

The AFL fixture is full of quirks and inequities.

Certainly is. Our marquee game - one of the best of the season - was just played on a Sunday arvo with no national FTA coverage.

Meanwhile our Carlton friend above has his team playing in how many prime-time FTA slots this year? Completely undeserved too.

How much difference do you reckon that makes to the desirability of a club for sponsors and new fans looking for a team they can follow? Particularly when it's a systematically ingrained inequality favouring the same clubs year after year. But no, let's rage about a one-off game caused by freak circumstances instead.

 

[Scotland]

None of that matters though because you got an extra home game.

Meanwhile we're 6 games in and Carlton have already played an away game at each of their home grounds.

Three games in Melbourne against other Melbourne teams, two in Melbourne against non-Vic teams and one in Hobart for doughnuts.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Fremantle must be a new charity project fairy-tale for league as it just should not have happened for integrity of ladder order.

The irony is that you're so against the grand final going anywhere else. Knowing this, it makes it impossible to take your rant very seriously.

Poor Carlton, always so hard done by

 

[Kwality]

pathetic attempt to sideline the discussion. The OP has put in plenty of work to set up a discussion & its very clear his topic, give him a fair go.

 

[Gydafud]

pathetic attempt to sideline the discussion. The OP has put in plenty of work to set up a discussion & its very clear his topic, give him a fair go.

I'm just happy for the replies

Admittedly, not really much to discuss as it is just reporting the figures and no real surprises or quirks to see. I would expect the SA/WA teams to be closest to capacity.

 

[Walshawk]

It's all about the "blockbusters".

Sad that people would rather watch Collingwood vs Carlton battle it out for bottom 6 positions over a game involving a top 4 interstate side or smaller Victorian club.

Is this actually true?
Does Essendon v Carlton really get more than the combined crowd of Essendon V Port and Carton v Port. What do the averages say?
For my point of view, I definite enjoy games less v the soul-less new clubs GWS and GC. No oppo fans means no atmosphere for mine. That may change over time.

 

[Scotland]

Is this actually true?
Does Essendon v Carlton really get more than the combined crowd of Essendon V Port and Carton v Port. What do the averages say?
For my point of view, I definite enjoy games less v the soul-less new clubs GWS and GC. No oppo fans means no atmosphere for mine. That may change over time.

Carlton average home crowd vs Port: 23k
Essendon average home crowd vs Port: 34k

Carlton average home crowd vs Essendon (since 1997): 60k
Essendon average home crowd vs Carlton (since 1997): 62k

What I find stranger is that the Bulldogs for example will get 20k against Port and Essendon typically 30k+, but WB vs Essendon might only get low 30s.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Is this actually true?
Does Essendon v Carlton really get more than the combined crowd of Essendon V Port and Carton v Port. What do the averages say?
For my point of view, I definite enjoy games less v the soul-less new clubs GWS and GC. No oppo fans means no atmosphere for mine. That may change over time.

Actually it's perspective. Neither of the expansion sides would have much of a Vic presence. We'd definitely like one but It's not our priority.
At Spotless it's actually the clubs like the Blues, Magpies and Cats that turn out the biggest group of oppo supporters. I dont necessarily think the Hawks inability to turn out a bigger crowd in the biggest city in Australia means they're soulless though .

 

[Hawkk]

Actually it's perspective. Neither of the expansion sides would have much of a Vic presence. We'd definitely like one but It's not our priority.
At Spotless it's actually the clubs like the Blues, Magpies and Cats that turn out the biggest group of oppo supporters. I dont necessarily think the Hawks inability to turn out a bigger crowd in the biggest city in Australia means they're soulless though .

Funny you say that. Until last year Hawthorn was responsible for the 2 largest non Sydney derby crowds at Spotless (2015 - 13576, 2016 - 13776 - the only two times they’ve visited Spotless). Probably would have been a hat trick if they played at Spotless last year as well.

Hawthorn has also been one of the Swans largest drawing clubs at the SCG (2nd largest crowd in 2017, largest crowd in 2012 and 2016) and Homebush (largest in 2013, 2014, 2015) in recent years. So I guess there is a great desparity between what you say and what the numbers actually are...

The ACT Chief Minister has specifically asked for Hawthorn to play a game at Manuka which isn’t surprising as Hawthorn have been top 2 for club membership for a decade

 

[Walshawk]

Actually it's perspective. Neither of the expansion sides would have much of a Vic presence. We'd definitely like one but It's not our priority.
At Spotless it's actually the clubs like the Blues, Magpies and Cats that turn out the biggest group of oppo supporters. I dont necessarily think the Hawks inability to turn out a bigger crowd in the biggest city in Australia means they're soulless though .

Crowds don’t maketh soul. History, tradition and community make soul. Not sure any of the expansion clubs beside Port are there yet. Certainly not GWS or GWS. I have been to Carrara. looking forward to Spotless in June.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Funny you say that. Until last year Hawthorn was responsible for the 2 largest non Sydney derby crowds at Spotless (2015, 2016 - the only two times they’ve visisted). Probably would have been a hat trick if they played at Spotless last year as well. Hawthorn has also been one of the Swans largest drawing clubs at the SCG and Homebush in recent years. So I guess there is a great desparity between what you say and what the numbers actually are...

Actually that just isn't true. The largest non derby crowd was actually WC last year. Traditionally the WA clubs dont draw well but it was late in the season and we were heading for a finals series. The next was the Cats last year.

 

[Walshawk]

Funny you say that. Until last year Hawthorn was responsible for the 2 largest non Sydney derby crowds at Spotless (2015, 2016 - the only two times they’ve visisted). Probably would have been a hat trick if they played at Spotless last year as well. Hawthorn has also been one of the Swans largest drawing clubs at the SCG and Homebush in recent years. So I guess there is a great desparity between what you say and what the numbers actually are...

The ACT Chief Minister has specifically asked for Hawthorn to play a game at Manuka which isn’t surprising as Hawthorn have been top 2 for club membership for a decade

According to AFL travel, Hawthorn had the most travelling fans of any Vic club. Not sure the interstate teams.

 

[Scotland]

Hawthorn, Carlton, Essendon all have decent support over here. Generally teams who were good in the 70s/80s and/or bought WAFL players in the same era developed followings here before WC joined the VFL.

We have a few thousand fans in Melbourne these days, most of which are just people who've moved cities. We probably have a few in Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane too but play there at most once a year.

Attendances in the AFL are skewed by the 22/18 fixture. If you go for Carlton for example then you might not get to see Collingwood or Essendon play your team unless you go to an away game.

 

[Scotland]

According to AFL travel, Hawthorn had the most travelling fans of any Vic club. Not sure the interstate teams.

Does that include Tasmania?

 

[Walshawk]

Actually that just isn't true. The largest non derby crowd was actually WC last year. Traditionally the WA clubs dont draw well but it was late in the season and we were heading for a finals series. The next was the Cats last year.

Actually that is not necessary untue. If we had played at Spotless round 1 we probably would have had a hatrick of the largest non derby crowds.