Analysis Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

[VineValerian]

FFS do not ever ever ever let the ****ing let the SMA get their snouts into this proposed new stadium. The Government must unequivocally separate the AO from the new stadium or food drink and all else will skyrocket beyond the means of Benny BBQ.

 

[NTRabbit]

FFS do not ever ever ever let the ****ing let the SMA get their snouts into this proposed new stadium. The Government must unequivocally separate the AO from the new stadium or food drink and all else will skyrocket beyond the means of Benny BBQ.

It's got an uphill battle to even happen, I mean if you think you've seen the North Adelaide NIMBYs fight before, wait until you try to take away 5 holes from their golf course

Plus, I think it's in response to the looming attempt at a deal between the AFC and the 36ers, and then again with Tennis SA, to knock Memorial Drive centre court over and replace it with a scale model of Rod Laver Arena. That would host the 36ers and Lightning, be used to entice major tennis events, and probably convince the Thunderbirds to sign a deal as well, which is where 'retractable grass soccer pitch to accommodate basketball' is coming from, because AVMC stand to lose a lot of money if netball and concerts leave them. Soccer needs a new stadium, but I don't think it'll be multipurpose beyond Rugby.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I take it you've all seen the Clowncar Gerrymander party have killed the Footy Express service? Or if not killed it outright, will be raising the prices to the point that it makes no difference anyway, on top of slashing $47m out of the PT budget.

Not remotely surprising.

If you're a conservative and you want lower taxes or less unions or less immigrants or whatever, vote for the Libs in a federal election, but voting for a conservative State government is just dumb. State Governments have * all power to do anything 'conservative', so all that ends up happening is they make a bunch of cuts to services and then brag about achieving a surplus. I'd rather have the services.

 

[GremioPower]

Not remotely surprising.

If you're a conservative and you want lower taxes or less unions or less immigrants or whatever, vote for the Libs in a federal election, but voting for a conservative State government is just dumb. State Governments have **** all power to do anything 'conservative', so all that ends up happening is they make a bunch of cuts to services and then brag about achieving a surplus. I'd rather have the services.

Mate, I live in a country where we pay lots of taxes, government spend more money than it gets, and we still don't have the services. We have had both the Right and the Left in power, but nothing has changed...

 

[chiwigi]

Not remotely surprising.

If you're a conservative and you want lower taxes or less unions or less immigrants or whatever, vote for the Libs in a federal election, but voting for a conservative State government is just dumb. State Governments have **** all power to do anything 'conservative', so all that ends up happening is they make a bunch of cuts to services and then brag about achieving a surplus. I'd rather have the services.

The fallacy of 'Austerity' has been hugely exposed as a cash grab by the rich in places like the UK, but conservatives in Australia (which include some of the poorest paid people) are still stupid enough to fall for it.

 

[Schulzenfest]

The fallacy of 'Austerity' has been hugely exposed as a cash grab by the rich in places like the UK, but conservatives in Australia (which include some of the poorest paid people) are still stupid enough to fall for it.

But muh budget surplus

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Not remotely surprising.

If you're a conservative and you want lower taxes or less unions or less immigrants or whatever, vote for the Libs in a federal election, but voting for a conservative State government is just dumb. State Governments have **** all power to do anything 'conservative', so all that ends up happening is they make a bunch of cuts to services and then brag about achieving a surplus. I'd rather have the services.

I think you need to read the Constitution and then have a good think about things. There is a s**t load of conservative things that a state government can do - they are in charge of law and order issues for a start.
.
Plus state governments deliver most of the services. Efficient and Effective delivering of services is about good management. Good management of that service delivery isn't a strong point for the left.

 

[El Zorro]

I think you need to read the Constitution and then have a good think about things. There is a s**t load of conservative things that a state government can do - they are in charge of law and order issues for a start.
.
Plus state governments deliver most of the services. Efficient and Effective delivering of services is about good management. Good management of that service delivery isn't a strong point for the left.

Yes, that's why the liberal federal government has been delivering surplus after surplus... Oh, wait..

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[StrappingTape]

I think you need to read the Constitution and then have a good think about things. There is a s**t load of conservative things that a state government can do - they are in charge of law and order issues for a start.
.
Plus state governments deliver most of the services. Efficient and Effective delivering of services is about good management. Good management of that service delivery isn't a strong point for the left.

Don't talk sense it will hurt their heads.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yes, that's why the liberal federal government has been delivering surplus after surplus... Oh, wait..

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A surplus doesn't mean there is efficient and effective delivery of services.

People have been brainwashed into a false paradigm of all deficits are bad and all surpluses are good type crap.

When interest rates were at 3% for government bonds the federal and state government should have issued 20 and 30 year bonds and gone and borrowed $200bil for infrastructure builds and kept all other recurrent expenditure under balance with tax revenue inflows.

You don't want to do what the silly Kout did and go and sell MAC for nearly $3bil, yell out to everyone look how good we are we are, we have a surplus and you don't get a new income stream or cut expenditure to make up for the government not getting a $250m+ annual dividend from the MAC for the next 10 years. That's a useless 1 year surplus.


Anyway back to stadiums - Olsen's so called business plan is crap for a multipurpose soccer and indoor sports arena. Rod Hook and others who have been involved in stadium developments will quickly tell you have an indoor 15,000-17,000 stadium that can be split into 4 different sized set ups ( or maybe more) for multi-use eg netball, basketball, tennis, concerts, Comm Game indoor events etc and a 35,000 rectangle stadium that can be used for all the rectangle sports and the experience of the new US stadiums show you can have a relatively cheap translucent fixed or retractable roof which gives your more flexibility for things like larger outdoor concerts or nitro series events. And why would you sell Adelaide Entertainment Centre when that could be used for smaller acts and smaller shows that dont need to be at the you beaut, all new more expensive centre.

Seriously which government is going to fund a 35,000 rectangle stadium that has a move-able pitch so you can roll out the grass and rolling in the boards for a basketball or netball game that might host 8,000 people?

Spend the money on 2 decent multi-purpose stadiums fit for use and their own independent boards and management teams not one hotch poch stadium that will only be useful for the bigger rectangle sports and be poor viewing for smaller indoor sports and Olsen and his SMA try and rip them off. Plus I dont reckon the golfers will like having 5 or 6 of their holes ripped off them.

 

[NTRabbit]

Spend the money on 2 decent multi-purpose stadiums fit for use and their own independent boards and management teams not one hotch poch stadium that will only be useful for the bigger rectangle sports and be poor viewing for smaller indoor sports and Olsen and his SMA try and rip them off. Plus I dont reckon the golfers will like having 5 or 6 of their holes ripped off them.

The Memorial Drive upgrade for a multipurpose tennis centre court/basketball/netball arena is going to happen eventually, there's too much private interest behind it now. That's the reason this plan, or at least study, was announced, they felt the ground moving out from underneath them.

The better place for a new rectangular soccer/rugby/etc stadium is in the space between the Torrens, Morphett St bridge/Convention Centre, and the medical precinct, but that also requires extending the tunnel the trains take under the convention centre and hotel, and building the stadium partially over the top. Originally I thought a good spot would be across the road from the nRAH, but in the years since then that area has been expensively redeveloped by the SACA to be their low cost home away from home. The parade grounds are the right size, but there's zero chance of that happening. University Oval is big enough, but aside from being another fight, it's also outside the mental comfortable walking distance zone of the trains and trams. Elsewhere surrenders the sporting precinct and public transport positives.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Memorial Drive upgrade for a multipurpose tennis centre court/basketball/netball arena is going to happen eventually, there's too much private interest behind it now. That's the reason this plan, or at least study, was announced, they felt the ground moving out from underneath them.

I'd put money on a public private partnership happening with private + feds + state + Tennis Oz/Tennis SA all putting in funds and use Tennis Oz future funds monies from their Oz Open largess as the carrott for Tennis to have management rights happening within 5 years.

The better place for a new rectangular soccer/rugby/etc stadium is in the space between the Torrens, Morphett St bridge/Convention Centre, and the medical precinct, but that also requires extending the tunnel the trains take under the convention centre and hotel, and building the stadium partially over the top.

I dont think there is enough space if you are going to build a 35k stadium. No point building a 25k stadium you can do that at Hindmarsh by filling in the 4 corners. Also do you want the noise of a stadium and night games right next to a hospital?

Originally I thought a good spot would be across the road from the nRAH, but in the years since then that area has been expensively redeveloped by the SACA to be their low cost home away from home.

Cricket has done a bloody good job there. Went and had a good look in March or April and was impressed. But shows how stupid the 2 AFL teams are as they should have lobbied the SANFL to do a deal with the SACA and build that an MCG size ground and both teams could train there 2 or 3 time the week before a game at the MCG.

The ground - marked out for footy - is roughly 152m long x 130m wide running north south for footy and cricket pitch and the grandstand/pavilion is on the wing for footy and side on for cricket.

They should have asked the ACC to have the same footprint building but rather on the western side put it on northern side and run cricket north south so pavilion is behind the bowlers arm, easy to set up a camera on the pavilion or on the roof, and run footy east west like the MCG so pavilion is on the wing. But not much thinking and communication by all parties.

The parade grounds are the right size, but there's zero chance of that happening. University Oval is big enough, but aside from being another fight, it's also outside the mental comfortable walking distance zone of the trains and trams. Elsewhere surrenders the sporting precinct and public transport positives.

Uni Oval will never have a stadium built on it, neither will the Parade grounds as you said. Its why it will take a Comm Games to get a decent sized inner city rectangle stadium built on the parklands. Its the only trigger for the politicians to get tough enough to tell the parklands freaks to piss off.

 

[NTRabbit]

I'd put money on a public private partnership happening with private + feds + state + Tennis Oz/Tennis SA all putting in funds and use Tennis Oz future funds monies from their Oz Open largess as the carrott for Tennis to have management rights happening within 5 years.

Maybe, but I'm not sure Tennis Australia really cares to have more than a training and development facility here, and Tennis SA has neither the money, nor the political clout on their own to get it done. That's why Grant Kelley entered the picture, looking for a modern and higher capacity replacement for Titanium Security Arena (yes I had to look up the name, it'll always be the Clipsal Powerhouse to me ), and sensing an opportunity.

I dont think there is enough space if you are going to build a 35k stadium. No point building a 25k stadium you can do that at Hindmarsh by filling in the 4 corners. Also do you want the noise of a stadium and night games right next to a hospital?

You're right, noise might be an issue, but there's definitely room. AAMI Park fits in there, and that holds 30k, the same footprint could hold a higher capacity by using a steeper rake.

Uni Oval will never have a stadium built on it, neither will the Parade grounds as you said. Its why it will take a Comm Games to get a decent sized inner city rectangle stadium built on the parklands. Its the only trigger for the politicians to get tough enough to tell the parklands freaks to piss off.

FIFA Women's World Cup maybe.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You're right, noise might be an issue, but there's definitely room. AAMI Park fits in there, and that holds 30k, the same footprint could hold a higher capacity by using a steeper rake.

That is a bloody tight fit. There might be some construction issues on such a tight site.

FIFA Women's World Cup maybe.

Maybe. Had a quick look at France 2019 on wiki and they have 2 x 20k stadiums and 2 x 25k stadiums as part 9 stadiums to be used. Hindmarsh with temporary seating in all 4 corners would get it to around 22k.

Still reckon 2026 or 2030 Comm Games is the best chance. They usually give 7 years lead time so next year should be vote for 2026 Comm Games, win that and bid for Women's WC which vote sometime early next year would just about lock it in.

 

[NTRabbit]

That is a bloody tight fit. There might be some construction issues on such a tight site.

If you want to see a tight fit, check out construction on Realm (Renaissance Arcade, site access by two alleys) and The Adelaidean (site access directly from the footpath on Frome only with a lane shut down for 2 years)! Once the ground is built up over the train lines it gets a lot simpler, albeit it'll mess with northbound traffic on Morphett/Montefiore for a time, as that existing side road would be the primary site entrance.

Maybe. Had a quick look at France 2019 on wiki and they have 2 x 20k stadiums and 2 x 25k stadiums as part 9 stadiums to be used. Hindmarsh with temporary seating in all 4 corners would get it to around 22k.

Still reckon 2026 or 2030 Comm Games is the best chance. They usually give 7 years lead time so next year should be vote for 2026 Comm Games, win that and bid for Women's WC which vote sometime early next year would just about lock it in.

Hindmarsh doesn't meet FIFA standards, and it's more than just capacity. It's even causing issues with the FFA, because they can't schedule W-League double headers due to there only being 2 changerooms instead of 4, as required. They've already been told they won't be included in an Australian bid, and that they're getting no further government money for upgrades or updates. They also can't knock it over and rebuild, because the current site can't be made any larger. Like Football Park, Hindmarsh is coming to the end of its days, and a CBD venue is the best choice of replacement.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Hindmarsh doesn't meet FIFA standards, and it's more than just capacity. It's even causing issues with the FFA, because they can't schedule W-League double headers due to there only being 2 changerooms instead of 4, as required. They've already been told they won't be included in an Australian bid, and that they're getting no further government money for upgrades or updates. They also can't knock it over and rebuild, because the current site can't be made any larger. Like Football Park, Hindmarsh is coming to the end of its days, and a CBD venue is the best choice of replacement.

If push comes to shove the government will spend $30m to upgrade Hindmarsh over $300m to build a new stadium just for the WC. They wont want to miss out.

The FIFA requirements for women's world cup aren't as tough as the men's. Just look at the 2015 WC stadium in New Brunswick in Canada for proof.

That's why winning the Comm Games is a better bet to get a new stadium.

 

[StrappingTape]

It would be hard to justify the spend on soccer/rugby etc with their attendances, the payback would never happen.

 

[The_Wookie]

If push comes to shove the government will spend $30m to upgrade Hindmarsh over $300m to build a new stadium just for the WC. They wont want to miss out.

Left field but how about an upgrade to Mile End - stick the soccer field bang into the middle of the athletics track. Works ok for South Melbourne - and wont be held up by Parklands protection/North Adelaide res idiots. Even has a railway station nearby.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Left field but how about an upgrade to Mile End - stick the soccer field bang into the middle of the athletics track. Works ok for South Melbourne - and wont be held up by Parklands protection/North Adelaide res idiots.

Could do it, but soccer people would want a dedicated rectangle stadium not an oval. And if you want to attract more rectangle sports a dedicated stadium does a better job.

Then there is the transport issue. Not as easy to get Santos stadium as the AO precinct or something over the railway tracks, and the tram has made getting to Hindmarsh a lot easier than 10 years ago.

 

[chiwigi]

I'd actually go to games if they were in the city. Hindmarsh is a total pain in the arse.

 

[ROBBBO]

I'd actually go to games if they were in the city. Hindmarsh is a total pain in the arse.

yup same

 

[NTRabbit]

Picking up some momentum, albeit the outgoing Lord Mayor

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...k=8f9ddde9f915523b7f9fc9bb00034937-1539110850

LORD Mayor Martin Haese is endorsing the city railyards as a site for a proposed multi-use arena, which would house concerts, entertainment and major sports.

A site south of the River Torrens, west of the Morphett St bridge and north of the railyards is being examined as part of a business case being prepared for the ambitious arena.

It is understood this would involve building over an existing carpark and extending over the railyards — similar to an arena planned for Brisbane’s centre — with tunnels underneath for trains.

A formal business case for the fast-tracked development, which has been modelled on the LA Live hub in Los Angeles, is due later this month. The LA Live hub includes 13 eateries, a14-screen cinema and the STAPLES Centre, which has hosted multiple sports and entertainment legends, such as the LA Lakers.

Image is missing the newly built University medical buildings and the under construction SAHMRI 2, hopefully just for ease of viewing rather than more sinister reasons.

Another suggestion I've seen is that, if this happens, the SMA be bodged off, and a new SMA be formed to manage the entire sports precinct, without the current lot of money grubbing parasites. Don't think it's feasible, but one can dream.

 

[scotty13]

Here is a radical idea... In the parklands in front of the Tennis centre, why not put a stadium there... can be a new build, let it hang over the river, can have the bridge veer to the left at the mid point to head to the new stadium. Will keep it in the complex of AO/Tennis etc and who uses the river anyway?

This is an artists impression... although a 70k seat stadium was used, to the reality of what would be built there is a lot smaller and would fit in nicely.

 

[bomberclifford]

and who uses the river anyway

 

[dav3]

Picking up some momentum, albeit the outgoing Lord Mayor

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...k=8f9ddde9f915523b7f9fc9bb00034937-1539110850

Image is missing the newly built University medical buildings and the under construction SAHMRI 2, hopefully just for ease of viewing rather than more sinister reasons.

Another suggestion I've seen is that, if this happens, the SMA be bodged off, and a new SMA be formed to manage the entire sports precinct, without the current lot of money grubbing parasites. Don't think it's feasible, but one can dream.

FYI, SAHMRI 2 isn't under construction yet, it's going on that corner block next to the existing SAHMRI that's currently occupied by the Train Operation Control Centre. They're also putting a new small building in the rail yards pretty close to the edge of the stadium in that mockup.