Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

Chewy316

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 1, 2014
5,072
9,901
Adelaide, Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Lakers, Ducks, Yankees
Lets look at some Oz experience

Sydney Football Stadium next to SCG opened 1988 completely demolished by 2020, rebuilding now.

Parramatta Stadium opened in 1986, knocked down in 2017, rebuild and opened in 2019.

Subiaco main 3 tiered stand finished 1969, stand all the way round from outer pocket next to 3 tiered stand all way round to members side opposite pocket was built mid 1990's along with a couple of members stands built in 1970's and upgraded, and all completely demolished by 2019.

Football Park open 1974 completely demolished by 2018.

Waverley Park opened 1970 completely demolished by 2003.

Lang Park was completely rebuilt in 2003.

Gabba 6 stage redevelopment starting in 1994 accelerated for Sydney Olympics so that soccer could be played there by 2000 so stage 5 completed by 1999, and stage 6 around 2005, will be completely demolished and rebuilt for 2032 Olympics.

Olympic Stadium in Sydney at one point was going to be half demolished and rebuilt as a rectangle, but Covid stopped that.

Great Southern Stand MCG is 48k capacity was finished in 1992, and MCC has seriously considered a knockdown and rebuild for middle of this decade, but that's been put on hold.

In 30 years time many stadiums will be hitting the 40-50 years old. The customer expectations in the 2040's and by2050 will be greater than today, so I expect some stadiums will be knocked down and others to receive major upgrades that are similar to building a new stadium.
The biggest question is going to be the expectation for the average fan in 2050. American fans traditionally have an expectation of an "out of this world" type of experience, whereas I would suggest the average fan in Australia doesn't care nearly as much as the yanks do about the little gimmicks.

We look at Adelaide Oval and Optus Stadium as the best stadium experiences (Lang Park for any rectangular game ie soccer, rugby league etc) and the common denominator of all of these isn't so much that they are a "Jerry's World" type of experience - but they provide awesome sight lines, easy accessibility getting into the stadium, easy access to bathrooms, food and grog, and acoustics that enhance the sound from the crowd. You contrast that to Allegiant Stadium in Vegas where the latest gimmick introduced there is essentially a nightclub in one of the end zones. I'm not quite sure the expectations here will come close to what is on offer in the States for many years, if ever.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
70,030
108,407
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
The biggest question is going to be the expectation for the average fan in 2050. American fans traditionally have an expectation of an "out of this world" type of experience, whereas I would suggest the average fan in Australia doesn't care nearly as much as the yanks do about the little gimmicks.

We look at Adelaide Oval and Optus Stadium as the best stadium experiences (Lang Park for any rectangular game ie soccer, rugby league etc) and the common denominator of all of these isn't so much that they are a "Jerry's World" type of experience - but they provide awesome sight lines, easy accessibility getting into the stadium, easy access to bathrooms, food and grog, and acoustics that enhance the sound from the crowd. You contrast that to Allegiant Stadium in Vegas where the latest gimmick introduced there is essentially a nightclub in one of the end zones. I'm not quite sure the expectations here will come close to what is on offer in the States for many years, if ever.
Aussie fans don't necessarily want the out there bling stuff the yanks get/want but they have high expectations of quality stadiums. And there is a keeping up with Jones mentality. Once SA people went to Docklands they voted with their feet that they wanted better than Football Park, both location and facilities. Before that there was an acceptance that Football Park is good enough.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
70,030
108,407
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
Dumb question, but why not just fill it deeper with dirt and adjust the first row if need be?
Lets say you add 1m of dirt. How much does 170x140x1 cubic metres of dirt weight? Does the existing pillars holding up the concrete base have the strength to hold up that dirt? i have no idea. If not and you need to spend a whole lot of money reinforcing the base with more pillars and you lose a lot of parking space, does the equation say its cheaper to get rid of the concrete base and car park? With 1m you'd probably lose the first 5 to 10 first rows given the fence is about 1m high.
 

Interstater

Bruce Light fan club
Jun 7, 2015
5,297
10,168
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Dumb question, but why not just fill it deeper with dirt and adjust the first row if need be?
In theory that is possible, they would need to do a redesign based on the extra load.
The beams supporting the slab would have to be checked.

I've never been to the place or seen the beams in the carpark but there would be ways to do this.

Whether its cheaper to remove the central slab and repour with deeper beams (while not touching the columns) or to rebuild the entire place, that's the question.
 
Last edited:

Tredz

Club Legend
Apr 30, 2011
1,926
4,467
Brisbane, QLD
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Utah Jazz
Lets say you add 1m of dirt. How much does 170x140x1 cubic metres of dirt weight? Does the existing pillars holding up the concrete base have the strength to hold up that dirt? i have no idea. If not and you need to spend a whole lot of money reinforcing the base with more pillars and you lose a lot of parking space, does the equation say its cheaper to get rid of the concrete base and car park? With 1m you'd probably lose the first 5 to 10 first rows given the fence is about 1m high.
About 38,000 metric tonnes (or about the weight of an Iowa class battleship) add to this the weight of any water retention of the additional soil...but who's counting? :p
 

Chewy316

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 1, 2014
5,072
9,901
Adelaide, Australia
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Lakers, Ducks, Yankees
Aussie fans don't necessarily want the out there bling stuff the yanks get/want but they have high expectations of quality stadiums. And there is a keeping up with Jones mentality. Once SA people went to Docklands they voted with their feet that they wanted better than Football Park, both location and facilities. Before that there was an acceptance that Football Park is good enough.
It's hard for me to provide much of an opinion because I was about 10 years old (maybe 9) when the Northern stand at Footy Park was built. As a young kid I just remember thinking Footy Park was so far out of the way (at the time i lived in Glenunga), and if you got a sh*t car park you were waiting an eternity to get out of there.

I agree that Docklands was revolutionary for footy at the time. I remember the hoopla about it when it first opened, the novelty of having such a big stadium with a roof on it. Then I went there for the first time in 2003 when Tredrea kicked 7 against Essendon. Even as a 20 year old stadium now the sight lines for the most part are as good as any footy stadium in Australia. It was very much the first stadium in Australia to truly capitalise on the corporate dollar.

You compare it to Footy Park though and it was no contest. But I would also suggest that Adelaide at the time was largely a backwater 20+ years behind the Eastern seaboard capital cities. In the 90s we couldnt care less where we played, the state was just rapt to have 2 clubs playing in the AFL. The Northern stand and the blue seats, it really was like putting lip stick on a pig in the end. You're completely right in saying Colonial Stadium would have opened up SA's eyes to the possibilities of what a footy stadium can be about.

What is interesting from here though, is that the redevelopment of Adelaide Oval saw our footy stadium essentially go from worst in the AFL to arguably the best experience for both fan and player in Australia. It was quite weird but equally satisfying to see Adelaide become a stadium benchmark - and since then we've seen Optus Stadium try to match it.

I think for the foreseeable future Adelaide Oval won't see any structural changes but I can certainly see them making easier fan experiences such as ordering drinks and food from your seat, delivered to your seat via an app.

Structurally I can see the members stand being redeveloped because it looks semi out of place with the eastern and southern stands. Do you think as the population increases (and thus so does demand), that they could find a way to keep the hill but also have a grandstand above it?
 

Lefti93

Club Legend
Oct 19, 2012
1,202
2,011
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, AEK FC
Nothing better than opening up the Charlie Dixon thread to have a read about structural engineering and the culture of sports stadium development.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk
haha, i had to check the thread title like 4 times. still, very insightful content.
 

Andre

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 3, 2002
26,774
33,113
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Nothing better than opening up the Charlie Dixon thread to have a read about structural engineering and the culture of sports stadium development.
This isn't the Big ******* Digs!!!!! thread? Oops.
 

Andre

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 3, 2002
26,774
33,113
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
You wouldn't need an extra metre of dirt, 100-150mm would make a huge difference.
Yeah, but even if it was an extra metre and the first 4 - 5 rows were lost, then really it's no big deal. They average one crowd over 50k a year there. So losing 5 rows might impact one game a year for people can't go that really want to.

This isn't Waverly or Football Park or even Princes Park. This is right next to a major Train Station, Tram lines and across a pedestrian bridge that is actually wide enough to accommodate football crowds properly. If a few parking spots go it's neither here or there. Except to the AFL exec's who may lose their easy access.

Though I think part of it is the usual AFL thing of not wanting to admit mistakes. If they did rip out the first few rows and add more soil, they'd be afraid of:
a) getting sued (a lot more) about the existing surface
b) having to justify why they didn't do it years ago.

This would require admitting they got something wrong. Token themed rounds and easy suspensions of players from less 'in clique' clubs is one thing, but as the expose book on the AFL culture has only highlighted more, getting real change through the corrupt in-group of Melbourne Private school boys is another matter altogether. So they'll keep up the half arsed rectification methods and pretend it's all safe, even though players continue to pull up much worse after playing on it every year.
 

Sleezy

Club Legend
Mar 17, 2015
2,414
4,825
Melbourne
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
In theory that is possible, they would need to do a redesign based on the extra load.
The beams supporting the slab would have to be checked.

I've never been to the place or seen the beams in the carpark but there would be ways to do this.

Whether its cheaper to remove the central slab and repour with deeper beams (while not touching the columns) or to rebuild the entire place, that's the question.
Ah, I forgot there was a carpark underneath (who drives to the footy anyway?).

So we're back to shitty design then. who in their right minds thought 200mm (two thirds of a bloody ruler!) was enough dirt for a professional playing surface? Madness.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
70,030
108,407
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
That sounds like the $142m to develop stage 5 that was announced in late 2019 and the Vic government pledged $102mil then upped it in the state budget last year to 100%.

Ok I went and edited post #2 of this thread and put in this info in December to track Kardinia Park 5 stage development and funding.


Edit 7 November 2020 the Vic government announced in their budget they will fully fund STAGE 5 redevelopment of $142m over 2020/21 years after initially agreeing to fund only $102 million of the project cost.

https://www.kardiniapark.vic.gov.au/news/final-step-for-new-kardinia-park-confirmed/#:~:text=The $142 million Stage 5,for the Geelong Cricket Club.

Minister for Tourism, Sport and Major Events Martin Pakula announced that the Victorian Budget 2020/21 will include the additional allocation to fully fund Stage 5 of the Kardinia Park redevelopment.

The Labor Government had previously committed $102 million to the project which will involve the construction of a 14,000 capacity, two-tier northern stand to replace the ageing Ford Stand and Ablett Terrace, increasing the stadium’s capacity to over 40,000 and boosting Geelong’s ability to attract national and international events.

The $142 million Stage 5 works will benefit hundreds of thousands of sports fans and users each year, especially those from Geelong and the western district.

The new stand will include facilities for all levels including new professional standard unisex change rooms and a home for the Geelong Cricket Club. The region’s up-and-coming cricketers will also benefit from the creation of a regional cricket hub.

Whether it be an AFL match, T20 cricket or one of the many community events held at the stadium, patrons will continue to enjoy world-class facilities year round thanks to a new northern entry plaza, sports museum, function room and a suite of technology upgrades including high-speed public wi-fi and LED signage.

Stadium operations will be bolstered through the delivery of a new administration area for stadium and event staff and dedicated sustainability measures. Work is expected to begin in the new year.
....

The most recent stage of the stadium redevelopment was completed in 2017 and included the new Brownlow Stand, a community-based rehabilitation centre and training and administration facilities for the Geelong Football Club. The Victorian Government contributed $75 million towards those works.
 
Last edited:

Capital Power

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 31, 2005
7,212
12,123
Canberra
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Cronulla Sharks
Those in the Port Adelaide electorate, start voting Liberal.
Have tried the same tactic here, but it falls on deaf ears. We are taken for granted by both sides. Manuka has a capacity of around 17,000 at a squeeze and Canberra has four times the population of Geelong...
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad