Analysis Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

PowerBaz

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 13, 2014
19,678
26,653
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I don’t mind money being given to Geelong as long as they ******* make the ground wider so it looks like an oval instead of the **** they have right now...


I remember living in Werribee when my dad got a transfer in the early 90's.

Our new neighbour said Hi, lets go the footy, Geelong v Melbourne at Kardinia.

As you view it on TV now we stood on the concrete hill bottom left of the TV - all I remember was the driving bloody rain, miserable wether and my dad having to drive my neighbours shitty 4WD home because he decided to get on the VB's and get hammered.

I did learn the Little River band was named after the sign post to 'Little River' a town on the old Melb/Geelong highway, the back rd we took.

Fun fact for the day.
 
Sep 3, 2002
28,579
37,617
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
If you are in a footy club in a marginal seat, both state and federal, you get the gifts.
It's too late for this bribes election, but anyone enrolled in Hindmarsh that's a Port supporter should be voting Liberal. They aren't going to win anyway, but move the dial closer to marginal seat so the club can get some largesse thrown at them next time around.
 
Screwing the SMA like

FB_IMG_1557989602368.jpg
 

FPPF

Premiership Player
May 9, 2013
3,891
4,003
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Last week, Monday or Tuesday I believe, after OUR home showdown, the crows merch van was still parked on the eastern plaza.
No sign of it having been a Port Adelaide home game as usual.
 
Last week, Monday or Tuesday I believe, after OUR home showdown, the crows merch van was still parked on the eastern plaza.
No sign of it having been a Port Adelaide home game as usual.
Take photos with a time date stamp, maybe a video with that days paper as proof, build up about 3 or 4 examples if each and then send to Mulligan so he can bag SMA in parliament again
 
Mar 1, 2014
13,887
17,507
People's Republic of Onkaparinga
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Cronulla Sutherland Sharks
Shock, horror, once again the Monopoly Times exposes the bleeding obvious - in case none of us knew the Adelaide Oval crowds have dropped away after the inaugural year of 2014.

A few points-
  • We knew this was always going to happen. The AO novelty value was always going to wear off.
  • Most footy supporters regard the pricing at AO as exploitative and a disincentive to attend.
  • Port Adelaide's mediocre success rate since 2014 has affected our gate. Our numbers are down by 6,000 per game and average 38,227 in 2018. That figure that is not too bad when you compare it with some interstate clubs. Even with last week's low 26,129 crowd we are holding our own this year with an average attendance at 38,463.
Those of us who post regularly on this thread should not be surprised at the drop in numbers since 2014 and most of us would have expected it.

The SMA are now in damage control as Rob Lucas has announced that in the next Budget the State Government intends to pass on the cost of emergency and essential services such as Police to the venue operators. Knowing the SMA this will mean a flow on and a likely rise in the prices of goods and services inside the Oval and a further disincentive for people to attend.

Probably not the thread for this but here goes anyway, I find it rather ironic that the Liberal Party just won a Federal Election on the back of a, 'Labor means increased taxes' campaign and a week later a Liberal State Government foreshadows increased taxes. Morrison got his surplus by cutting the States' share of GST revenue and now the States have to recoop the money somehow. That's politics I guess.
 
Apr 13, 2006
32,868
77,030
The Bitter End
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Any body else notice that since the Crows actually did the right thing for once and called the SMA out in the Parliamentary Inquiry, their reported crowds have somewhat diminished?
After posting a 50 thousand plus crowd in the opening game against Hawthorn, their crowds have gone:
Geelong 45,631
Gold Coast 40,847
Freo 42,383
West Coast 41,630
GWS 41,710
Richmond 40,837

In previous years it was rare to see a sub 45k crowd for them, now it seems they are struggling to get over 40k.
 
Any body else notice that since the Crows actually did the right thing for once and called the SMA out in the Parliamentary Inquiry, their reported crowds have somewhat diminished?
After posting a 50 thousand plus crowd in the opening game against Hawthorn, their crowds have gone:
Geelong 45,631
Gold Coast 40,847
Freo 42,383
West Coast 41,630
GWS 41,710
Richmond 40,837

In previous years it was rare to see a sub 45k crowd for them, now it seems they are struggling to get over 40k.
I made a comment on the Footy Industry board crowd thread last night that it looked like a lot more than 40.8k and then went to AFL Tables and saw that's 3 games in a row under 42k. A crowie who went to the game was in the western stand and he said he thought it was bigger than the official figure.
 
Apr 13, 2006
32,868
77,030
The Bitter End
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I made a comment on the Footy Industry board crowd thread last night that it looked like a lot more than 40.8k and then went to AFL Tables and saw that's 3 games in a row under 42k. A crowie who went to the game was in the western stand and he said he thought it was bigger than the official figure.

Yep. Their crowds on TV look no different to other years.
 
Yep. Their crowds on TV look no different to other years.
The TV rarely shows all of the top level of eastern and southern standards and never top deck of the western stand, but the crowd on the hill is always a good indicator and that looked over 80% full. When I saw 40.8k figure I thought it was a typo and was supposed to be 48.0k. I know it was not that many, but it looked a few thousand more than 40.8k.
 
Sep 3, 2002
28,579
37,617
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Any body else notice that since the Crows actually did the right thing for once and called the SMA out in the Parliamentary Inquiry, their reported crowds have somewhat diminished?
After posting a 50 thousand plus crowd in the opening game against Hawthorn, their crowds have gone:
Geelong 45,631
Gold Coast 40,847
Freo 42,383
West Coast 41,630
GWS 41,710
Richmond 40,837

In previous years it was rare to see a sub 45k crowd for them, now it seems they are struggling to get over 40k.
Mummy and daddy don’t like it when their golden child stands up to them.
 
Oct 5, 2006
4,412
5,972
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
There are no other teams
So the SANFL/SMA are turning on their bastard child the crows now? I wonder what would happen if they won the SANFL flag.
I hear you, but as you would know it's near on impossible with the rules in place for finals. I think it's a maximum of 15 AFL-listed players and must have played more SANFL than AFL games that season? Happy to be corrected.
 
I hear you, but as you would know it's near on impossible with the rules in place for finals. I think it's a maximum of 15 AFL-listed players and must have played more SANFL than AFL games that season? Happy to be corrected.

Yep more SANFL than AFL games needed. 17 AFL listed players can play.

But if Crows AFL side are still alive in finals, the more SANFL than AFL games rule doesn’t apply yet.
 
PowerBaz the other day asked me the following question which then carried on a bit after my reply below. Thought I'd put this up as reference because people still want to know how we make money, how we miss out from the SMA and wonder how they are screwing us and regularly ask me about it.

So I would love to understand how we make money on game day and where the split goes in regards to SMA etc....

What you really want I can't give you because you need access to the general ledger of both the SMA and Port to get those figures. Also You wont get a 2 line answer because its a complicated model.

How do we make money game day?
1. 1/11th of membership revenue that is collected in advance is basically game day revenue. So of the $11m+ Koch has reported as membership revenue at AGM, each game effectively generates $1m+ in membership income for the club.

2. Corporate boxes. There are 80 odd 10 and 12 people corporate boxes that the club (and crows) have the right to sell and they sell them for between $35k and $50k. These are usually sold in advance, but apparently Port didn't sell them all out before the season, so the club tries to do individual or 2 or 3 game deals to get some revenue. Once again you have to allocate 1/11th of the pre sold ones to correctly represent game day revenue.

3. We have 365 day control of suite ONE on level 4 SE corner of the Riverbank Stand - 100 people, that we can sell and use whenever we want to, for functions eg during cricket, soccer games, concerts, private functions mid week etc as well as the footy. The crows have a same box in the SW corner of level 4.

4. Advertising and signage. Both clubs get nearly all the advertising and signage fees during game day you see on the big screens and those LED advertising boards.

5. Functions - pre game held in the McLachlan room in the western grandstand. Some very occasionally are held in the Magarey Room, so if we organises them we keep that revenue. Otherwise if the SMA organise them, eg finals, they keep that revenue.

6. Game day tickets sold via Ticketek and at the match day ticket boxes. This revenue stream is used to offset game day costs we have to pay for eg police, security etc

7. Both clubs get $2.40 per attendee which comes out of SMA's/SANFL's general revenue collected rather than just being linked directly to catering revenue as John Olsen said in the Parliament Inquiry earlier this year. It comes out of general revenue.

8. If we play a home final at AO - post March 2015 review, we get about $300k if we sell it out.

How does the SMA make money?
1. They sell 32 x 18 people super boxes for $130k+ for 12 months use, this is split between SANFL and SACA - SMA gets $nil

2. They sell the 12 month 1,455 Stadium Club memberships for about $4.8k, this is split between SANFL and SACA - SMA gets $nil

3. AO SMA Football memberships which in 2014 the SANFL got 100% of these fees - SMA $nil, but as part of the 2015 stadium deal review, these memberships were increased by $100 for adults, less for concessions and juniors and the increase amount was split by the 2 AFL club.

On page 228 of the Stadium Deals thread I posted a spreadsheet after the reviewed stadium deal was announced in March 2015, showing how these 3 revenue streams are split. See



The next post in that thread, I posted KT's comments on the deal and have edited it a couple of times to explain how he got that in 2016 and 2017, Port would get an extra $2m and the crows $2.1m if they both maintained their 2014 crowds - which neither side has, but the crows have stayed closer to that, than us. The last edit I made was in May 2018.

Read both these posts to improve your understanding of these components.

4. The SMA still collect a small amount of advertising and signage revenue on game day but it is a lot less after the 2015 stadium deal review.

5. The SMA earn catering revenue for servicing the corporate boxes. You might pay $50k for a corporate box but that just buys 12 tickets for 11 home games and the right to sit in the box and you might have to pay another $50k-$100k for catering in those boxes depending on how much booze and food you supply to attendees.

6. The SMA charge Port catering fees for the pre match functions (and other club functions like Club 1870 we have there). Say we sell a ticket for $250 -$300 for that function, the SMA charged the club a fee. It was $150 per ticket sold back in 2014 for a pre match function in the McLachlan room when I attended for the Peter Chant medal presentation for ANZAC day round, and I was only charged a cost price ticket. They also charge catering for our ONE corporate box

7. Sales of Food and Beverage at bars and Kiosks. SMA collects that and pays the SANFL a commission during footy games, my guestimate is between 20-25% and the same for the SACA during cricket season. For independent events like the soccer, or concerts etc the SMA don't have to pay a catering commission to the SANFL or SACA.

8. Parking fees gets collected by the SMA

Match day costs - some are paid for by the SMA eg ground preparation costs, catering staff wages, but others have to be covered by the clubs as mentioned above.


PowerBaz later said - I was told in about round 4 this year by someone at the SMA we were down in $ so it all doesn't surprise me.

My reply was
1. Our corporate boxes aren't all sold out,

2. We are missing out on about 60,000 x $2.40 if our crowds only get to 20k for both our last 2 home games this year compared to 2016-18 years and 100,000 x $2.40 compared to 2015 crowds when this deal started.

3. I don't think we are selling out our pre game functions in the McLachlan room because even if you have a membership, you get a seat in the Bradman Pavilion on level 4 in the red seats that take about 1/2 those red seats, and I sit directly opposite them in the Max Basheer stand, and the last few games I have noticed that there are a lot of empty seats in that area compared to previous years.

I don't know about signage and advertising revenue this year, but we seem to have ads all the bloody time on the big screen and LED advertising boards around the boundary and grandstands.
 

PowerBaz

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 13, 2014
19,678
26,653
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
PowerBaz the other day asked me the following question which then carried on a bit after my reply below. Thought I'd put this up as reference because people still want to know how we make money, how we miss out from the SMA and wonder how they are screwing us and regularly ask me about it.

So I would love to understand how we make money on game day and where the split goes in regards to SMA etc....

What you really want I can't give you because you need access to the general ledger of both the SMA and Port to get those figures. Also You wont get a 2 line answer because its a complicated model.

How do we make money game day?
1. 1/11th of membership revenue that is collected in advance is basically game day revenue. So of the $11m+ Koch has reported as membership revenue at AGM, each game effectively generates $1m+ in membership income for the club.

2. Corporate boxes. There are 80 odd 10 and 12 people corporate boxes that the club (and crows) have the right to sell and they sell them for between $35k and $50k. These are usually sold in advance, but apparently Port didn't sell them all out before the season, so the club tries to do individual or 2 or 3 game deals to get some revenue. Once again you have to allocate 1/11th of the pre sold ones to correctly represent game day revenue.

3. We have 365 day control of suite ONE on level 4 SE corner of the Riverbank Stand - 100 people, that we can sell and use whenever we want to, for functions eg during cricket, soccer games, concerts, private functions mid week etc as well as the footy. The crows have a same box in the SW corner of level 4.

4. Advertising and signage. Both clubs get nearly all the advertising and signage fees during game day you see on the big screens and those LED advertising boards.

5. Functions - pre game held in the McLachlan room in the western grandstand. Some very occasionally are held in the Magarey Room, so if we organises them we keep that revenue. Otherwise if the SMA organise them, eg finals, they keep that revenue.

6. Game day tickets sold via Ticketek and at the match day ticket boxes. This revenue stream is used to offset game day costs we have to pay for eg police, security etc

7. Both clubs get $2.40 per attendee which comes out of SMA's/SANFL's general revenue collected rather than just being linked directly to catering revenue as John Olsen said in the Parliament Inquiry earlier this year. It comes out of general revenue.

8. If we play a home final at AO - post March 2015 review, we get about $300k if we sell it out.

How does the SMA make money?
1. They sell 32 x 18 people super boxes for $130k+ for 12 months use, this is split between SANFL and SACA - SMA gets $nil

2. They sell the 12 month 1,455 Stadium Club memberships for about $4.8k, this is split between SANFL and SACA - SMA gets $nil

3. AO SMA Football memberships which in 2014 the SANFL got 100% of these fees - SMA $nil, but as part of the 2015 stadium deal review, these memberships were increased by $100 for adults, less for concessions and juniors and the increase amount was split by the 2 AFL club.

On page 228 of the Stadium Deals thread I posted a spreadsheet after the reviewed stadium deal was announced in March 2015, showing how these 3 revenue streams are split. See



The next post in that thread, I posted KT's comments on the deal and have edited it a couple of times to explain how he got that in 2016 and 2017, Port would get an extra $2m and the crows $2.1m if they both maintained their 2014 crowds - which neither side has, but the crows have stayed closer to that, than us. The last edit I made was in May 2018.

Read both these posts to improve your understanding of these components.

4. The SMA still collect a small amount of advertising and signage revenue on game day but it is a lot less after the 2015 stadium deal review.

5. The SMA earn catering revenue for servicing the corporate boxes. You might pay $50k for a corporate box but that just buys 12 tickets for 11 home games and the right to sit in the box and you might have to pay another $50k-$100k for catering in those boxes depending on how much booze and food you supply to attendees.

6. The SMA charge Port catering fees for the pre match functions (and other club functions like Club 1870 we have there). Say we sell a ticket for $250 -$300 for that function, the SMA charged the club a fee. It was $150 per ticket sold back in 2014 for a pre match function in the McLachlan room when I attended for the Peter Chant medal presentation for ANZAC day round, and I was only charged a cost price ticket. They also charge catering for our ONE corporate box

7. Sales of Food and Beverage at bars and Kiosks. SMA collects that and pays the SANFL a commission during footy games, my guestimate is between 20-25% and the same for the SACA during cricket season. For independent events like the soccer, or concerts etc the SMA don't have to pay a catering commission to the SANFL or SACA.

8. Parking fees gets collected by the SMA

Match day costs - some are paid for by the SMA eg ground preparation costs, catering staff wages, but others have to be covered by the clubs as mentioned above.


PowerBaz later said - I was told in about round 4 this year by someone at the SMA we were down in $ so it all doesn't surprise me.

My reply was
1. Our corporate boxes aren't all sold out,

2. We are missing out on about 60,000 x $2.40 if our crowds only get to 20k for both our last 2 home games this year compared to 2016-18 years and 100,000 x $2.40 compared to 2015 crowds when this deal started.

3. I don't think we are selling out our pre game functions in the McLachlan room because even if you have a membership, you get a seat in the Bradman Pavilion on level 4 in the red seats that take about 1/2 those red seats, and I sit directly opposite them in the Max Basheer stand, and the last few games I have noticed that there are a lot of empty seats in that area compared to previous years.

I don't know about signage and advertising revenue this year, but we seem to have ads all the bloody time on the big screen and LED advertising boards around the boundary and grandstands.





The corporate stuff is great but the bottom of the barell way to make money from 1 person to 30,000 people going is food and beverage really.

I wonder when they did all this great modelling did the model for what happens when the crowd eventually drop off, probably not.
 
The corporate stuff is great but the bottom of the barell way to make money from 1 person to 30,000 people going is food and beverage really.

I wonder when they did all this great modelling did the model for what happens when the crowd eventually drop off, probably not.
In the documents the SMA gave to the Parliament sub committee it showed from footy and cricket game day revenue from catering for the SMA was $21m from the general public, and $14m from corporates in 2018. 3,000 corporate piss pot attendees spend 2/3rds of what 47,000 general public spend in very simple terms.

There also was a figure for non game day event catering but I don't remember that. I have posted it in this thread somewhere back around March April when it came up on the parliament website.

The SMA is a bit pissed off with us, because they aren't getting their catering revenue from our games they had budgeted for.

The whole reason to build the hotel was to drive new revenue stream for the SMA because they have a lot of under utilised catering facilities for the other 6 days of the week, and that they know they have maxed it out if they regularly get 50k rock up. They know the average spend per crows and port game from the general public wont grow much more, and neither will the catering per corporate box.
 
We need a new stadium deal, but not the one we have.

SMA questioned over profits from Adelaide Oval Hotel
LOCAL


Adelaide Oval management has been accused of misleading the public over where profits from the Adelaide Oval Hotel will flow, after it was revealed both the SACA and SANFL would end up with the bulk of earnings.

Fronting a parliamentary select committee for the second time this morning, Stadium Management Authority CEO Andrew Daniels and chair Kevin Scarce had a prickly exchange with the committee’s chair and Labor MLC Ian Hunter, who accused the pair of not previously revealing that only $600,000 per year would flow back to the Adelaide Oval.

...

Hunter questioned whether it would be a conflict of interest for representatives from SACA and the SANFL to be on the board overseeing hotel, saying there was a “fine distinction” between how they could switch between representing the sporting codes and the Oval Hotel.

“We never know which hat they’re wearing,” Scarce admitted.

“But, when they come together to oversight the activity and direct the strategic development (of the Oval Hotel) they are constituted as a board to the SMA and that is a very clear responsibility.

“As the chair – an independent chair – for me it works well.”

Hunter said the profit stream indicated by the SMA showed that “all profits are going to SACA and SANFL for their own purposes”.

“I’ve understood all along that the benefit of the hotel was to go to the upgrade, upkeep when things are going poorly,” he said.

“But, what you’ve told me today is that the profits will go to football and cricket.

“I find that strange given the information that I was operating on – clearly incorrectly – but this is the first I’ve heard of it.”

https://indaily.com.au/news/local/2019/09/17/sma-questioned-over-profits-from-adelaide-oval-hotel/
 
This hotel loan is being dragged out, but if it goes past 1st of December then the government can scrap the loan and just make a grant to the SMA and no committee has any oversight over that arrangement. This is the reason why it the $42m was a loan not another grant. From Section 8 of The Adelaide Oval Redevelopment and Management Act 2011.

Part 4—Financial management

8—Extent of financial commitment

(1) If an appropriation is made for the purposes of, or in connection with, the
redevelopment of Adelaide Oval envisaged by this Act, the total amount that the
Minister, or any other entity acting on behalf of the State, is authorised to make
available or expend for a designated purpose is $535 million.

(2) Subsection (1) applies in relation to any amount made available or expended during
the period commencing on 1 December 2009 and ending on 1 December 2019.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a designated purpose means any of the following:
(a) development within the area bounded by King William Road, Pennington
Terrace, Montefiore Road and War Memorial Drive, other than land that is
subject to a lease or licence to the Memorial Drive Tennis Club Inc., Next
Generation Clubs Australia Pty Ltd or the South Australian Tennis
Association Inc.;

(b) grants or other forms of financial assistance to or for the benefit of SMA,
SACA, the SANFL or any other entity in connection with the development of
Adelaide Oval (including to assist with, or to achieve, the reduction or
discharge of any loan or other commitment, to pay any interest, to provide or
support a guarantee, security or bond, or to provide any other form of
financial accommodation but not including amounts that have been agreed to
be paid in relation to interest costs incurred by SACA for loans provided for
the Western Stand Redevelopment).

(4) However, a designated purpose does not include—
(a) roadworks within the area referred to in subsection (3)(a) from
1 January 2015; or

(b) roadworks relating to King William Road, Pennington Terrace, Montefiore
Road or War Memorial Drive.
 

PowerBaz

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 13, 2014
19,678
26,653
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
This hotel loan is being dragged out, but if it goes past 1st of December then the government can scrap the loan and just make a grant to the SMA and no committee has any oversight over that arrangement. This is the reason why it the $42m was a loan not another grant. From Section 8 of The Adelaide Oval Redevelopment and Management Act 2011.

Part 4—Financial management

8—Extent of financial commitment

(1) If an appropriation is made for the purposes of, or in connection with, the
redevelopment of Adelaide Oval envisaged by this Act, the total amount that the
Minister, or any other entity acting on behalf of the State, is authorised to make
available or expend for a designated purpose is $535 million.

(2) Subsection (1) applies in relation to any amount made available or expended during
the period commencing on 1 December 2009 and ending on 1 December 2019.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a designated purpose means any of the following:
(a) development within the area bounded by King William Road, Pennington
Terrace, Montefiore Road and War Memorial Drive, other than land that is
subject to a lease or licence to the Memorial Drive Tennis Club Inc., Next
Generation Clubs Australia Pty Ltd or the South Australian Tennis
Association Inc.;

(b) grants or other forms of financial assistance to or for the benefit of SMA,
SACA, the SANFL or any other entity in connection with the development of
Adelaide Oval (including to assist with, or to achieve, the reduction or
discharge of any loan or other commitment, to pay any interest, to provide or
support a guarantee, security or bond, or to provide any other form of
financial accommodation but not including amounts that have been agreed to
be paid in relation to interest costs incurred by SACA for loans provided for
the Western Stand Redevelopment).

(4) However, a designated purpose does not include—
(a) roadworks within the area referred to in subsection (3)(a) from
1 January 2015; or

(b) roadworks relating to King William Road, Pennington Terrace, Montefiore
Road or War Memorial Drive.




There seems to be other ways to make money for interested parties, do Port and the Crows get a cent out of it?
 
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