Movie Star Wars - Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers and Rumors

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Janus

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I'm sure Rian Johnson could talk through some really interesting exploration of very subtle themes, it's that he appears to have kicked the continuity officer out of the room when writing the story.

Simple question. If you could destroy a near planet sized star ship by flying into it at near lightspeed then why would a group of desperate rebels who are so fanatically opposed to the empire not suicide a luxury cruise space ship into the deathstar? Why don't planets get bombarded by religious fundamentalists turning their ships at key landmarks and lightspeed into them?
Why did the Empire drop out of light speed too close to the Hoth system?

Why did the TIE fighters who were chasing the Millennium Falcon not notice it attached the the back side of the star destroyer bridge?

How did Luke get seniority over Wedge and Biggs in the Death Star run when it was his first time in an X-Wing?

Why did everyone just stand around waiting for Luke to get his lightsaber on the skiff in ROTJ?

Why didn’t Luke use the Force to hit the switch to kill the rancor and instead used a skull?

If Leia knew they were tracking the Falcon, why didn’t she ask Han to take them to an abandoned rebel base location where they could switch ships and THEN go to the rebel base, knowing that the Death Star would follow the Falcon?

You start asking logical questions and the whole thing unravels. The thing about stories is that they aren’t written with the benefit of hindsight. The characters are thinking on the fly and make mistakes or possibly don’t think of things before that moment. Maybe no one thought about using lightspeed as a weapon before that point in time, because in most situations a cruiser of that size has heaps of people on it.
 

FlowersByIrene

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The battle of Yavin says otherwise.

Though ESB brought him back to the pack and made him more relatable and not so "perfect".(but that is the greatest of any star wars films)

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Okay, let's agree to disagree, Luke is a capable pilot at Yavin and shows nothing like what Rey shows in the first film,
 

FlowersByIrene

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Luke is a ready made superior fighter pilot as is Anakin supposedly.

Both have the skills and talent without any training.

She at least gets some training during VIII.

As said prev will reserve my judgement on the trilogy as a whole until VIV.

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You do realise that the aregument that both anakin and luke are good pilots gives credence to the initial point I made,

Which is ridiculous.

He was over powered as all hell in A New Hope.

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The point that was made to originally bring this all up however is that Luke can be "overpowered (despite the fact he is not nerely as overpowered as Rey) because he is the son of a literal embodiment of the froce, born out of imaculate conception of the force itself and is increidbly powerful in the force.

If Rey was equally lineaged, her extreme abilities may be explained, hower, as Kylo so eloquently puts, her parents are junk traders, nothing more. Therefore, the fact that Rey is not only as powerful, but magnitutes more powerful than Luke in Episode 4 is categorical evidence, that she is a Mary Sue.
 

FlowersByIrene

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Why did the Empire drop out of light speed too close to the Hoth system?

Why did the TIE fighters who were chasing the Millennium Falcon not notice it attached the the back side of the star destroyer bridge?

How did Luke get seniority over Wedge and Biggs in the Death Star run when it was his first time in an X-Wing?

Why did everyone just stand around waiting for Luke to get his lightsaber on the skiff in ROTJ?

Why didn’t Luke use the Force to hit the switch to kill the rancor and instead used a skull?

If Leia knew they were tracking the Falcon, why didn’t she ask Han to take them to an abandoned rebel base location where they could switch ships and THEN go to the rebel base, knowing that the Death Star would follow the Falcon?

You start asking logical questions and the whole thing unravels. The thing about stories is that they aren’t written with the benefit of hindsight. The characters are thinking on the fly and make mistakes or possibly don’t think of things before that moment. Maybe no one thought about using lightspeed as a weapon before that point in time, because in most situations a cruiser of that size has heaps of people on it.
But ht eonly one of those questions which i remotely close to the example we are disucssing is luke throwing the skull and that could just be preferential. Fact of the matter is, the lightspeed battering ram kills canon, end of story.
 

edgie

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I'm not buying into this argument again, other to say flying skills aren't passed down in the genes.
Yeah, but it is at least SOMETHING.

Also... Being a good footballer seems to be passed on. There's an inordinate amount of father sons around.

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FlowersByIrene

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Yeah, but it is at least SOMETHING.

Also... Being a good footballer seems to be passed on. There's an inordinate amount of father sons around.

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Plus its a fantasy/sci-fi film, it is a common trope of those genre's that children are adept in what their parents were great at. Unless you're Rian Johnson and you want to "subvert expectations".
 

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Janus

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You do realise that the aregument that both anakin and luke are good pilots gives credence to the initial point I made,


The point that was made to originally bring this all up however is that Luke can be "overpowered (despite the fact he is not nerely as overpowered as Rey) because he is the son of a literal embodiment of the froce, born out of imaculate conception of the force itself and is increidbly powerful in the force.

If Rey was equally lineaged, her extreme abilities may be explained, hower, as Kylo so eloquently puts, her parents are junk traders, nothing more. Therefore, the fact that Rey is not only as power, but magnitutes more powerful than Luke in Episode 4 is categorical evidence, that she is a Mary Sue.
The Force has time and time again been shown to be a dharma/karma like entity that ebbs and flows in relation to how weak or powerful the light or dark side becomes. The whole reason why the Jedi fell was because they got directly involved in the Clone Wars and in doing so tipped the balance of the universe toward one political ideology - however noble the intentions were, it wasn’t the place of the guardians of peace and justice to fight a war. “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence...never for attack.”

This being the case, the stronger Ben Solo grows in the dark side, the stronger Rey will grow in the light. She is the reflection of his shadow, as he is the reflection of hers.

That’s why Rey’s parentage doesn’t matter. Just as Anakin was conceived by the Force, the Force was conceived in Rey. There isn’t some Merovingian bloodline that you must be able to trace your lineage back through to be a strong Force adept. Because it’s created by the cycle of nature, it responds to anomalies in its ecosystem by spawning predators to restore balance - Force users of sufficient power to destroy the other.
 

emuboy

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Please don't make any more Star Wars films.

I've seen worse films that The Last Jedi, but I doubt I've ever seen such an insultingly bad film. Adam Sandler's Jack and Jill is one of the worst movies of all time, I absolutely hate it, but I never felt insulted by it and I've never heard anyone use the term insulting to describe it. The Last Jedi was a total insult.
 

JackOutback

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Yeah, but it is at least SOMETHING.

Also... Being a good footballer seems to be passed on. There's an inordinate amount of father sons around.

Sent from mTalk
That’s because the dad is around to teach them, inspire a passion in the pursuit. They don’t inherit it.
 

edgie

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Nathan Ablett and Will Langford play in flags.

I refuse to believe they managed that going solely on good training and inspiration, or they'd still be around. They had some natural affinity with the game.

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FlowersByIrene

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The Force has time and time again been shown to be a dharma/karma like entity that ebbs and flows in relation to how weak or powerful the light or dark side becomes. The whole reason why the Jedi fell was because they got directly involved in the Clone Wars and in doing so tipped the balance of the universe toward one political ideology - however noble the intentions were, it wasn’t the place of the guardians of peace and justice to fight a war. “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence...never for attack.”

This being the case, the stronger Ben Solo grows in the dark side, the stronger Rey will grow in the light. She is the reflection of his shadow, as he is the reflection of hers.

That’s why Rey’s parentage doesn’t matter. Just as Anakin was conceived by the Force, the Force was conceived in Rey. There isn’t some Merovingian bloodline that you must be able to trace your lineage back through to be a strong Force adept. Because it’s created by the cycle of nature, it responds to anomalies in its ecosystem by spawning predators to restore balance - Force users of sufficient power to destroy the other.
No, despite the fact Snoke said that, that has never been shown to be true.

So there were thousands of jedi for years and the Dark Side developed Count Dooku and Darth Maul to "counteract" the thousands of Jedi?? You can have an argument that Palpatine was incredibly powerful and rose up against the light, but he is balanced out by Yoda's prowess, let alone the remaining thousands of Jedi.

That argument does not work for Rey.
 

Janus

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No, despite the fact Snoke said that, that has never been shown to be true.

So there were thousands of jedi for years and the Dark Side developed Count Dooku and Darth Maul to "counteract" the thousands of Jedi?? You can have an argument that Palpatine was incredibly powerful and rose up against the light, but he is balanced out by Yoda's prowess, let alone the remaining thousands of Jedi.

That argument does not work for Rey.
The Jedi who existed for thousands of years never directly used their power to interfere in the affairs of the galaxy. Qui Gon even said to Obi Wan that they couldn’t use their powers to help Padme.

Lucas has always said that natural balance comes from the Jedi taking a Buddhist monk philosophy toward the Force - protecting others passively, with self-defence, but not actively. They never needed to be balanced by the Sith because they didn’t get involved.

As soon as the Jedi started interfering, the Force allowed Palpatine to stay in power and execute Order 66 to correct the hubris of the Jedi, who were actively seeking to destroy those who were exercising their democratic rights like the Trade Federation etc.

It’s the old saying: you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
 

FlowersByIrene

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The Jedi who existed for thousands of years never directly used their power to interfere in the affairs of the galaxy. Qui Gon even said to Obi Wan that they couldn’t use their powers to help Padme.

Lucas has always said that natural balance comes from the Jedi taking a Buddhist monk philosophy toward the Force - protecting others passively, with self-defence, but not actively. They never needed to be balanced by the Sith because they didn’t get involved.

As soon as the Jedi started interfering, the Force allowed Palpatine to stay in power and execute Order 66 to correct the hubris of the Jedi, who were actively seeking to destroy those who were exercising their democratic rights like the Trade Federation etc.

It’s the old saying: you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
That's not my interpretation of the force, and i'm not sure where you are getting it. Despite the Jedi's role o rlack thereof in "global politics" they are nevertheless users of the light side of the force, which is and always is, in contrast to the dark side. Therefore the existence of thousands of Jedi fluent, practicing and prominent in the light side of the force, counteracts the throwaway statement made by Snoke.
 

glenferry23

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That's not my interpretation of the force, and i'm not sure where you are getting it. Despite the Jedi's role o rlack thereof in "global politics" they are nevertheless users of the light side of the force, which is and always is, in contrast to the dark side. Therefore the existence of thousands of Jedi fluent, practicing and prominent in the light side of the force, counteracts the throwaway statement made by Snoke.
I know he loves to copy and paste a random quote to use as evidence of a point. But curiously he omitted/ignored this one from Obi-Wan:

“For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.”

A thousand generations. That certainly seems a long time for the force to wait.
 
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