Movie Star Wars - Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers and Rumors

SM

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It was JJ that reverted to Empire (FO) vs Rebels (Resistance). TLJ gives him a way out of that but it is up to JJ now to run with it. I would like to see the saga end with no more Jedi and Sith, just Force users, and no Empire or Alluance, just a universe where worlds make their own way. The possibilities from there are just endless. That’s where I think RJ was going but isn’t going to spoil Episode IX if he wants to work with them again.


I’ve said this before though. People put a lot of stock in these reports even though Lucasfilm runs a tight ship and the reports are invariably wrong.
I'm talking about what tfa and TLJ have already shown us. And as you point out, TLJ has left a blank skate for IX which by its very nature means IX will also be a fresh take.
 

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JackOutback

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I'm talking about what tfa and TLJ have already shown us. And as you point out, TLJ has left a blank skate for IX which by its very nature means IX will also be a fresh take.
It’s not a blank slate if JJ takes it to the conclusion I mentioned. People keep saying RJ dialed up Empire vs Rebels but he also wiped them out, allowing for a finale that moves beyond it.
 

mike123

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It’s not a blank slate if JJ takes it to the conclusion I mentioned. People keep saying RJ dialed up Empire vs Rebels but he also wiped them out, allowing for a finale that moves beyond it.
If you want something done you have do it yourself. If the first two movies are anything to go buy then leaving stuff for the next director to do doesn’t work.
 

JackOutback

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If you want something done you have do it yourself. If the first two movies are anything to go buy then leaving stuff for the next director to do doesn’t work.
There was an interesting interview with RJ where he described the dynamic. He said he was told to make his own movie using his interpretation of where TFA was headed. So, for example, the idea of Luke going off to die was his idea but it actually makes sense; the idea that Luke left a puzzle for people to solve if he wanted to come back makes no sense. Likewise he made his movie, left room to move, but he knows he is leaving it in JJ’s hands. They are still making a trilogy, he can’t do it all himself and leave nothing for IX.

It does feel like a lot of criticism of TLJ is that it didn’t lay out absolutely everything..
 

General Giant

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There was an interesting interview with RJ where he described the dynamic. He said he was told to make his own movie using his interpretation of where TFA was headed. So, for example, the idea of Luke going off to die was his idea but it actually makes sense; the idea that Luke left a puzzle for people to solve if he wanted to come back makes no sense. Likewise he made his movie, left room to move, but he knows he is leaving it in JJ’s hands. They are still making a trilogy, he can’t do it all himself and leave nothing for IX.

It does feel like a lot of criticism of TLJ is that it didn’t lay out absolutely everything..
As I've said previously.

I'm awaiting IX before making my decision.

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mike123

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There was an interesting interview with RJ where he described the dynamic. He said he was told to make his own movie using his interpretation of where TFA was headed. So, for example, the idea of Luke going off to die was his idea but it actually makes sense; the idea that Luke left a puzzle for people to solve if he wanted to come back makes no sense. Likewise he made his movie, left room to move, but he knows he is leaving it in JJ’s hands. They are still making a trilogy, he can’t do it all himself and leave nothing for IX.

It does feel like a lot of criticism of TLJ is that it didn’t lay out absolutely everything..
The thing is Rian Johnson didn’t really lay out anything. He just killed of everything the TFA and didn’t leave much for XI. He maid a movie that payed out nothing and left nothing.

Luke just giving up and dying also makes no sense.
 

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Thread starter #708
The thing is Rian Johnson didn’t really lay out anything. He just killed of everything the TFA and didn’t leave much for XI. He maid a movie that payed out nothing and left nothing.

Luke just giving up and dying also makes no sense.
You are %100 correct and astute in your comments above.

JackOutback is %100 incorrect and obtuse in his comments prior.

Luke going off to die and quitting on the galaxy/Leia/etc makes more sense? bwahahaha

RJ progressed JJ's story along perfectly? omg. He pretty much trashed everything JJ had set up. A TRILOGY works when it's cohesive BETWEEN the three movies. Instead VIII, the middle movie, is a complete curveball....already now, and when we look back on this ST AFTER IX has been completed by JJ (who wrote VII). We will see how badly VIII stands out like a sore thumb then.
 

General Giant

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I've been a, I wouldnt say defender, but a "stay calmer" about TLJ until IX come out.

But.

RJ basically from his 1st shot (Destroying the rebel base) to the end gleefully ****** everything JJ set up.

JJ should of had the entire sequal trilogy and RJ given his own stand alone trilogy(which does excite me)


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mike123

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I've been a, I wouldnt say defender, but a "stay calmer" about TLJ until IX come out.

But.

RJ basically from his 1st shot (Destroying the rebel base) to the end gleefully ****** everything JJ set up.

JJ should of had the entire sequal trilogy and RJ given his own stand alone trilogy(which does excite me)


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Neither of them should get a trilogy.
 

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edgie

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It’s not a blank slate if JJ takes it to the conclusion I mentioned. People keep saying RJ dialed up Empire vs Rebels but he also wiped them out, allowing for a finale that moves beyond it.
That's serious serious reaching Jack. RJ had a scene where he could have committed to that but instead chose to remake Hoth.

'its salt'.

Also, what is your basis for the FO being wiped out? Losing a few ships when the scroll says they they have forces moving all over the galaxy seizing control?

Sent from mTalk
 
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JackOutback

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The thing is Rian Johnson didn’t really lay out anything. He just killed of everything the TFA and didn’t leave much for XI. He maid a movie that payed out nothing and left nothing.

Luke just giving up and dying also makes no sense.
Luke giving up doesn't make sense if you're stubbornly committed to you own idea of who Luke must be. RJ explains the actions and decisions that led him to go into exile, you might not like them, but they make sense. People can change a lot in 30 years, they don't always continue in exactly the same manner. But people also forget, TLJ is the middle film in a trilogy, the second act, when everything seems darkest. The character of Luke was torn down, but he was rebuilt at the end, re-entering the fray, and allowing the final act to be the redemption and happy ending.
 

JackOutback

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What about the prequels? ROTS was MUCH darker than AOTC.
An anomaly, because Lucas had chosen a storyline that had no positive ending. That said, the second act still ends with the galaxy at war and the heroes in a dark place, the third film ends with Obi-Wan defeating Anakin and escaping with their lives ready to fight back. I mean, Rogue One still has the three act structure even though the end is dark. The heroes still go from being in an unwinnable position to 'winning'.

The ST is a more traditional trilogy, the first act sets up the conflict, the second act puts them in a seemingly unwinnable position, the third act will see the heroes prevail.
 

mike123

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Luke giving up doesn't make sense if you're stubbornly committed to you own idea of who Luke must be. RJ explains the actions and decisions that led him to go into exile, you might not like them, but they make sense. People can change a lot in 30 years, they don't always continue in exactly the same manner. But people also forget, TLJ is the middle film in a trilogy, the second act, when everything seems darkest. The character of Luke was torn down, but he was rebuilt at the end, re-entering the fray, and allowing the final act to be the redemption and happy ending.
I wouldn’t call dying on rock de entering the fray.
 

JackOutback

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I wouldn’t call dying on rock de entering the fray.
A lot of people are having a hard time getting past how Luke was presented and their interpretation of how he 'went out'. But he came back, had his moment with Leia, engaged Kylo, and helped the Rebels escape. It's now set up for him to play a role in the final act. Once we see how that plays out, I think people will start to see what a brave move RJ made; making Luke a wise Jedi warrior was the easy option, but also largely the least interesting. I don't want to see Luke as Obi-Wan or Yoda, just repeating the same beats. He now gets a whole new arc that I think is far more interesting.
 

mike123

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Luke giving up doesn't make sense if you're stubbornly committed to you own idea of who Luke must be. RJ explains the actions and decisions that led him to go into exile, you might not like them, but they make sense. People can change a lot in 30 years, they don't always continue in exactly the same manner. But people also forget, TLJ is the middle film in a trilogy, the second act, when everything seems darkest. The character of Luke was torn down, but he was rebuilt at the end, re-entering the fray, and allowing the final act to be the redemption and happy ending.
You also have to show why people change, Rian did none of that. Luke just went from hero to zero in one fell swoop. Then there’s also Luke’s refusal to take responsibility for his actions, how he affected the galaxy and how he turned his nephew to the dark side. He’s just a complete arshole the whole movie. Which I guess could technically happen over 30 years but they don’t show why it happens nor is it a particularly interesting to watch play out.
 

mike123

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A lot of people are having a hard time getting past how Luke was presented and their interpretation of how he 'went out'. But he came back, had his moment with Leia, engaged Kylo, and helped the Rebels escape. It's now set up for him to play a role in the final act. Once we see how that plays out, I think people will start to see what a brave move RJ made; making Luke a wise Jedi warrior was the easy option, but also largely the least interesting. I don't want to see Luke as Obi-Wan or Yoda, just repeating the same beats. He now gets a whole new arc that I think is far more interesting.
The problem with the way Luke came back is solely relies on the stupidly of Kylo, so instead of making Luke look like he’s redeemed himself, it just makes Kylo and the FO look less threatening coming into the next movie and he’s intimidation factor was already very low.

Then just because Luke is a wise Jedi doesn’t mean he’d be the same as Obi-Wan and Yoda, just look at how their opinions differed on Vader. A more interesting and appealing approach would of been to have had Luke preaching different philosophy to to the one Yoda and Obi-Wan taught.

Like already went through a rigorous arc in the ot. He doesn’t need much of an arc anymore. It’s Rey, Poe, Finn and Kylo who need the interesting arcs.
 

JackOutback

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You also have to show why people change, Rian did none of that. Luke just went from hero to zero in one fell swoop. Then there’s also Luke’s refusal to take responsibility for his actions, how he affected the galaxy and how he turned his nephew to the dark side. He’s just a complete arshole the whole movie. Which I guess could technically happen over 30 years but they don’t show why it happens nor is it a particularly interesting to watch play out.
I disagree; he explains the 'moment of weakness', he discusses with Rey the reasons the Jedi must die out, he has a long discussion with Yoda about failure that puts it all into context. RJ didn't make a simplistic blockbuster with everything laid out like a dot-to-dot, which is why this will likely hold up better than most other Star Wars films.
 

mike123

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I disagree; he explains the 'moment of weakness', he discusses with Rey the reasons the Jedi must die out, he has a long discussion with Yoda about failure that puts it all into context. RJ didn't make a simplistic blockbuster with everything laid out like a dot-to-dot, which is why this will likely hold up better than most other Star Wars films.
Moment of weakness is a cop out not an explanation. The reasons he discusses with Rey as to why the Jedi must end are either poor or disingenuous.

RJ ignored in universe context to cheaply subvert the audience, that’s why the film will hold up the least well of any Star Wars film.
 

JackOutback

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The problem with the way Luke came back is solely relies on the stupidly of Kylo, so instead of making Luke look like he’s redeemed himself, it just makes Kylo and the FO look less threatening coming into the next movie and he’s intimidation factor was already very low.

Then just because Luke is a wise Jedi doesn’t mean he’d be the same as Obi-Wan and Yoda, just look at how their opinions differed on Vader. A more interesting and appealing approach would of been to have had Luke preaching different philosophy to to the one Yoda and Obi-Wan taught.

Like already went through a rigorous arc in the ot. He doesn’t need much of an arc anymore. It’s Rey, Poe, Finn and Kylo who need the interesting arcs.
But it was a deliberate ploy on Luke's behalf; he knew Kylo was immature and easily baited, which is why he knew his tactic would give the Resistance time to escape. I agree that makes him look less intimidating, but that's counterbalanced by his killing off of Snoke and whatever comes next; the point could be that Luke is his weak spot because of his obsession with killing off the past.

I think everyone has had their arc, some people are so bogged down in a hatred of TLJ that they won't recognise what was done. Poe went from hotheaded pilot to leader of the Resistance (effectively), Finn went from self-interested in TFA to caring just about him and Rey at the beginning of TLJ to being committed to the cause by the end, and Rey is in the middle of the journey from loner to hero, from nobody to powerful Force user in the galaxy.
 
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