Movie Star Wars - Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers and Rumors

mike123

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But it was a deliberate ploy on Luke's behalf; he knew Kylo was immature and easily baited, which is why he knew his tactic would give the Resistance time to escape. I agree that makes him look less intimidating, but that's counterbalanced by his killing off of Snoke and whatever comes next; the point could be that Luke is his weak spot because of his obsession with killing off the past.

I think everyone has had their arc, some people are so bogged down in a hatred of TLJ that they won't recognise what was done. Poe went from hotheaded pilot to leader of the Resistance (effectively), Finn went from self-interested in TFA to caring just about him and Rey at the beginning of TLJ to being committed to the cause by the end, and Rey is in the middle of the journey from loner to hero, from nobody to powerful Force user in the galaxy.
The problem isn’t that Kylo is shown to be immature and easily baited, he’s shown up to be extremely ******ed. Just face Luke yourself and have the rest of the army still take down the resistance. There was absolutely no reason for him to order the whole army to stop. He also should have known something was up when Luke was wielding the light saber that was blown in half just before. It doesn’t matter how immature you that should be a giant red flag.

The problem is Luke’s reademption isn’t earned it’s just given to him because his opponent can’t practice basic common sense.

Poe was never a hot headed pilot though. He made the right choices all throughout the film, it’s just him making a series of correct choices.

I’ll admit Finn’s arc was better handled in the TLJ then TFA, he’s character still felt the affects of being butchered by JJ though. Him going from self interested to fully invested to the cause was great. Too bad Rose ruined the climax of that.

Your right on Rey’s arc the problem is the finer details are poorly executed like how she gains her powers, the struggles or lack thereof she goes through and her connection to the rest of the cast.
 

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JackOutback

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The problem isn’t that Kylo is shown to be immature and easily baited, he’s shown up to be extremely ******ed. Just face Luke yourself and have the rest of the army still take down the resistance. There was absolutely no reason for him to order the whole army to stop. He also should have known something was up when Luke was wielding the light saber that was blown in half just before. It doesn’t matter how immature you that should be a giant red flag.

The problem is Luke’s reademption isn’t earned it’s just given to him because his opponent can’t practice basic common sense.

Poe was never a hot headed pilot though. He made the right choices all throughout the film, it’s just him making a series of correct choices.

I’ll admit Finn’s arc was better handled in the TLJ then TFA, he’s character still felt the affects of being butchered by JJ though. Him going from self interested to fully invested to the cause was great. Too bad Rose ruined the climax of that.

Your right on Rey’s arc the problem is the finer details are poorly executed like how she gains her powers, the struggles or lack thereof she goes through and her connection to the rest of the cast.
Rey's arc is probably more dependent on the final act than Poe or Finn's, just as Luke's was in the OT.
 

JackOutback

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Finn had an arc?

TLJ had a happy ending?

Staggering stuff. Where to even begin.
Yes, Finn had an arc; you might not like it but it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Who said TLJ had a happy ending? You could begin with that. It’s the second act so it ends in a dark place, though like Empire, it offers little victories, Luke Luke returning to the fold and the Resistance escaping.
 

glenferry23

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Yes, Finn had an arc; you might not like it but it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Who said TLJ had a happy ending? You could begin with that. It’s the second act so it ends in a dark place, though like Empire, it offers little victories, Luke Luke returning to the fold and the Resistance escaping.
Ive said this before, they genuinely don’t know what to do with Finn. His concept started off with so much potential. An ex stormtrooper who defected. Fascinating stuff, with endless possibilities (a Disney catchphrase).

But he’s essentially the same character from TFA. Reckless. He wants to run. Tried to abandon the cause yet again. All he really does is yell out “whooo!”, “yeah!!”, “cmon!!!”, “go go go!”

It’s like watching Shia Lebouf in a Transformers movie. It would’ve been much better if he actually came through and committed suicide for the cause when trying to fly into that laser. RJ chickened out here, instead we were served a rubbish scene that Rose is in love with him. Ridiculous.

If this is a meaningful arc, then it perfectly highlights the sheer incompetence of RJ’s story telling.

As for who said it was a happy ending? You did:

Luke giving up doesn't make sense if you're stubbornly committed to you own idea of who Luke must be. RJ explains the actions and decisions that led him to go into exile, you might not like them, but they make sense. People can change a lot in 30 years, they don't always continue in exactly the same manner. But people also forget, TLJ is the middle film in a trilogy, the second act, when everything seems darkest. The character of Luke was torn down, but he was rebuilt at the end, re-entering the fray, and allowing the final act to be the redemption and happy ending.
 

JackOutback

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Ive said this before, they genuinely don’t know what to do with Finn. His concept started off with so much potential. An ex stormtrooper who defected. Fascinating stuff, with endless possibilities (a Disney catchphrase).

But he’s essentially the same character from TFA. Reckless. He wants to run. Tried to abandon the cause yet again. All he really does is yell out “whooo!”, “yeah!!”, “cmon!!!”, “go go go!”

It’s like watching Shia Lebouf in a Transformers movie. It would’ve been much better if he actually came through and committed suicide for the cause when trying to fly into that laser. RJ chickened out here, instead we were served a rubbish scene that Rose is in love with him. Ridiculous.

If this is a meaningful arc, then it perfectly highlights the sheer incompetence of RJ’s story telling.

As for who said it was a happy ending? You did:
I’m referring to Episode IX as the final act there; he’s been torn down, partially rebuilt, next we get the conclusion.

Finn’s arc could have been done better, but this is still a kid friendly blockbuster, I don’t think they were ever going to go too far down the rabbit hole. I think there’s clear movement from the beginning of TLJ to the end. He wasn’t as selfish as the beginning of TFA because he had come to value Rey but he clearly becomes committed to the cause by the end of TLJ.
 

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It’s not a blank slate if JJ takes it to the conclusion I mentioned. People keep saying RJ dialed up Empire vs Rebels but he also wiped them out, allowing for a finale that moves beyond it.
So TLJ wiped out the fight.. and IX is what?

A blank slate.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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I’m referring to Episode IX as the final act there; he’s been torn down, partially rebuilt, next we get the conclusion.

Finn’s arc could have been done better, but this is still a kid friendly blockbuster, I don’t think they were ever going to go too far down the rabbit hole. I think there’s clear movement from the beginning of TLJ to the end. He wasn’t as selfish as the beginning of TFA because he had come to value Rey but he clearly becomes committed to the cause by the end of TLJ.
 

glenferry23

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I’m referring to Episode IX as the final act there; he’s been torn down, partially rebuilt, next we get the conclusion.

Finn’s arc could have been done better, but this is still a kid friendly blockbuster, I don’t think they were ever going to go too far down the rabbit hole. I think there’s clear movement from the beginning of TLJ to the end. He wasn’t as selfish as the beginning of TFA because he had come to value Rey but he clearly becomes committed to the cause by the end of TLJ.
Yes I know what you mean that things still need to be depicted in a kid friendly manner, however this is a bit of a cop out too.

They’ve killed Han. Killed Luke. Leia likely to come (in some shape or form). Finn is almost irrelevant when compared to these characters. There’s no comparison.

So the ability is still there, amidst a child friendly film, to exit a character in certain circumstances.

I genuinely thought when he was approaching that laser beam, that he would do it. Sacrifice himself for the cause. This would have elevated him to legendary status, a martyr even.

“The legend of Finn” could have been his legacy, to inspire the future members of the resistance. Such as what Luke did.

I’d just returned from the bathroom a few moments before this scene (needed to step out of the cinema because I couldn’t believe what the **** I was watching until this point. Genuinely bored). And I thought RJ would actually deliver here.

But to go from the potential of that, to then have to hear Rose loves him, was mind boggingly idiotic. These people have known each other for a few days.

It doesn’t make sense. Same with Finn’s infatuation with Rey. They’ve known each other for days. It’s so forced and somewhat unnatural, they’ve tried way too hard to try and convince the audience of their feelings for each other.

It’s so poorly conceived and written. Much of it is due to the poor decision to have these films wedged into a week or so. Many of the events that have happened are just implausible to take place in such a short time.

Rey’s exponential growth in powers. TFO “controlling” the galaxy. The relationship between Rey and Finn or Rose and Finn. This trilogy is littered with unconvincing story telling and poor timing decisions.
 

Janus

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The problem isn’t that Kylo is shown to be immature and easily baited, he’s shown up to be extremely ******ed. Just face Luke yourself and have the rest of the army still take down the resistance. There was absolutely no reason for him to order the whole army to stop. He also should have known something was up when Luke was wielding the light saber that was blown in half just before. It doesn’t matter how immature you that should be a giant red flag.

The problem is Luke’s reademption isn’t earned it’s just given to him because his opponent can’t practice basic common sense.

Poe was never a hot headed pilot though. He made the right choices all throughout the film, it’s just him making a series of correct choices.

I’ll admit Finn’s arc was better handled in the TLJ then TFA, he’s character still felt the affects of being butchered by JJ though. Him going from self interested to fully invested to the cause was great. Too bad Rose ruined the climax of that.

Your right on Rey’s arc the problem is the finer details are poorly executed like how she gains her powers, the struggles or lack thereof she goes through and her connection to the rest of the cast.
Because Kylo Ren is going to notice that Luke is holding the same lightsaber when he’s fighting Luke. “Hey, can you move your hand a bit so I can see the hilt?

The first time you saw that scene you wouldn’t have picked it, so why would Kylo Ren?

That whole scene is basically a view into the psyche of Kylo Ren. His vendetta against Luke is personal. He wants to prove that he is more powerful than his former mentor, which is why his anger clouds his judgement. It’s not meant to be an exercise in logic, but in emotion.

Luke was Lancelot returning to fight Mordred alongside King Arthur after betraying him with Guinevere.
 

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Simon_Nesbit

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Yes I know what you mean that things still need to be depicted in a kid friendly manner, however this is a bit of a cop out too.

They’ve killed Han. Killed Luke. Leia likely to come (in some shape or form). Finn is almost irrelevant when compared to these characters. There’s no comparison.

So the ability is still there, amidst a child friendly film, to exit a character in certain circumstances.

I genuinely thought when he was approaching that laser beam, that he would do it. Sacrifice himself for the cause. This would have elevated him to legendary status, a martyr even.

“The legend of Finn” could have been his legacy, to inspire the future members of the resistance. Such as what Luke did.

I’d just returned from the bathroom a few moments before this scene (needed to step out of the cinema because I couldn’t believe what the **** I was watching until this point. Genuinely bored). And I thought RJ would actually deliver here.

But to go from the potential of that, to then have to hear Rose loves him, was mind boggingly idiotic. These people have known each other for a few days.

It doesn’t make sense. Same with Finn’s infatuation with Rey. They’ve known each other for days. It’s so forced and somewhat unnatural, they’ve tried way too hard to try and convince the audience of their feelings for each other.

It’s so poorly conceived and written. Much of it is due to the poor decision to have these films wedged into a week or so. Many of the events that have happened are just implausible to take place in such a short time.

Rey’s exponential growth in powers. TFO “controlling” the galaxy. The relationship between Rey and Finn or Rose and Finn. This trilogy is littered with unconvincing story telling and poor timing decisions.
The two bolded points are the key to RJ's "Brilliance" - take a somewhat logical storytelling arc, a potentially moving/shocking turn of events with what is (for this version) a key character death and supplant it with a ridiculous subversion - purely for the sake of subversion.

Finn going into that cannon - sacrificing himself for the cause which he only recently started to believe in would be an abrupt, but ultimately satisfying way for the character arc to be completed.

Stolen as a child, brainwashed he existed without thought or feeling. Despite being an adult physically, his growth from baby (incompetent/failed stormtrooper) to finding something about himself (rey/girls are hot/confusing), then finding a cause to believe in (moving from personal gain to greater good - ala teenager to adulthood) and finally the ultimate sacrifice to save the lives of others (...er parenthood?)...

Whilst incredibly rapid and unrealistic, for an adult to being their journey as sheltered and unprepared as Finn did you can see the logical progression. He only knew absolute compliance (First Order/Stormtrooper) so 110% committed to everything in his life (freedom/safety, Rey, Resistance)

He would become a tragic, misguided character who found something that made him complete.

IMO, the only thing that would have been satisfying if Rose does ram Finn is if by doing so she sacrificed herself - not just to get rid of that unlikeable and wasteful character, but also as the 'final step' for Finn to commit to the cause (taking his story into a more integral senior role perhaps)
 

SM

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Because Kylo Ren is going to notice that Luke is holding the same lightsaber when he’s fighting Luke. “Hey, can you move your hand a bit so I can see the hilt?

The first time you saw that scene you wouldn’t have picked it, so why would Kylo Ren?

That whole scene is basically a view into the psyche of Kylo Ren. His vendetta against Luke is personal. He wants to prove that he is more powerful than his former mentor, which is why his anger clouds his judgement. It’s not meant to be an exercise in logic, but in emotion.

Luke was Lancelot returning to fight Mordred alongside King Arthur after betraying him with Guinevere.
Uh, the colour is a bit of a give away..
 

Janus

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Uh, the colour is a bit of a give away..
Because the only lightsabers in existence are Anakin’s old one that Luke used up until Cloud City and Luke’s green one that he built himself?

Who says Luke didn’t build a new one? Or found a new one - after all, Rey found Luke’s old saber at Maz’s place.
 

SM

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Because the only lightsabers in existence are Anakin’s old one and Luke’s?

Who says Luke didn’t build a new one? Or found a new one - after all, Rey found Luke’s old saber at Maz’s place.
Who says that indeed, but you reckon Kylo wouldn't notice that it's different? Just get your head out of the sand for once.

"I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" - Darth Vader
 

Janus

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Who says that indeed, but you reckon Kylo wouldn't notice that it's different? Just get your head out of the sand for once.
No I don’t think he would.

He just ******* told his entire landing party to fire every weapon at Luke and kept screaming “More!” It took General Hux - the same General Hux that was all “All star systems will bow to the First Order!!!1!” to tell him that it was enough.

That’s how blinded by emotion he was. It’s the same reason why Anakin told Obi Wan “You underestimate my power!” and did that ridiculous flip. The dark side makes people unbalanced.
 

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No I don’t think he would.

He just ******* told his entire landing party to fire every weapon at Luke and kept screaming “More!” It took General Hux - the same General Hux that was all “All star systems will bow to the First Order!!!1!” to tell him that it was enough.

That’s how blinded by emotion he was. It’s the same reason why Anakin told Obi Wan “You underestimate my power!” and did that ridiculous flip. The dark side makes people unbalanced.
And yet he does figure it out so clearly not as blinded as you think.
 

Janus

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And yet he does figure it out so clearly not as blinded as you think.
He figures it out AFTER he lands what should have been a fatal blow and Luke is still standing there. In fact, his emotion is so clouding his judgement that he needs to walk up to Luke’s image and put his saber through it for it to really register that he’d been duped.
 

SM

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He figures it out AFTER he lands what should have been a fatal blow and Luke is still standing there. In fact, his emotion is so clouding his judgement that he needs to walk up to Luke’s image and put his saber through it for it to really register that he’d been duped.
Right, so he's an utter moron.
 

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No, he’s not a nerd sitting in a movie theatre nitpicking over slight details but actually living the experience.

Luke could have been holding a ******* Ewok and it wouldn’t have mattered.
"Nerd sitting in a theatre nitpicking". You realise that blue and green are quite easily distinguished?

I quoted Vader who noted Luke had built a new lightsaber. By your logic that means I win, right? :)
 

Janus

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"Nerd sitting in a theatre nitpicking". You realise that blue and green are quite easily distinguished?

I quoted Vader who noted Luke had built a new lightsaber. By your logic that means I win, right? :)
Vader has Luke’s new lightsaber in his hand. Lightsabers are differentiated by the hilt design - blade colour is determined by the crystal used and there aren’t a whole heap of colours - it’s green, blue and red, with Mace Windu’s purple the only exception.
 

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Vader has Luke’s new lightsaber in his hand. Lightsabers are differentiated by the hilt design - blade colour is determined by the crystal used and there aren’t a whole heap of colours - it’s green, blue and red, with Mace Windu’s purple the only exception.
Blade colour isn't determined by the crystal used.
 
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