Star Wars Star Wars - General Discussion / Legends / Comics

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
You're thinking of Star Wars as an event movie, I imagine Disney are thinking of Star Wars as a brand and a universe. Is Marvel diluted by the release of Black Panther, Infinity War, Ant-Man and Captain Marvel all within 12 months? No, because they are separate movies under the same brand. What Disney need to achieve is separating Star Wars from the Skywalker saga, which is what the current trilogy is seeking to do, so people can watch and enjoy multiple stories without thinking it's all part of the one Star Wars story.

If anything, they need less prequels and filling in the gaps, and more new characters and events that people come to think of Star Wars. Rogue One was a good starting point, the mistake was going to Solo next, when they should have set something new after ROTJ.
No, I completely understand that that's what they think, and I even clarified above that Star Wars is NOT like Marvel, and it's foolish of Disney to treat it as one.

Marvel is not diluted because each of their comics is its own individual brand within a larger Universe. Star Wars is the reverse case where you begin with a brand (Han-Luke-Leia) and then expand it (Vader, Vader's origins, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Palpatine) and then expand it further (Rey, Finn, Poe, Jyn, Qi'ra). Rather than making films around tentpole characters that had existing stories or huge cult followings, they are creating new characters and new worlds and new stories. Which is fine. But it dilutes the power of the brand and what makes Star Wars quite unique.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
No, I completely understand that that's what they think, and I even clarified above that Star Wars is NOT like Marvel, and it's foolish of Disney to treat it as one.

Marvel is not diluted because each of their comics is its own individual brand within a larger Universe. Star Wars is the reverse case where you begin with a brand (Han-Luke-Leia) and then expand it (Vader, Vader's origins, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Palpatine) and then expand it further (Rey, Finn, Poe, Jyn, Qi'ra). Rather than making films around tentpole characters that had existing stories or huge cult followings, they are creating new characters and new worlds and new stories. Which is fine. But it dilutes the power of the brand and what makes Star Wars quite unique.
I think it can work from both ends. Marvel might have had pre-existing characters, but comic book fans don't make these films billion-dollar releases, the average film-goer does, and for them these are effectively new characters and ideas. Where Marvel has an advantage is pre-existing ideas from which to work. But if Lucasfilm can create quality films in different eras (i.e. Old Republic, Sequel era etc) then there's no reason they can't release distinct films under the one brand and achieve success.
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
I think it can work from both ends. Marvel might have had pre-existing characters, but comic book fans don't make these films billion-dollar releases, the average film-goer does, and for them these are effectively new characters and ideas. Where Marvel has an advantage is pre-existing ideas from which to work. But if Lucasfilm can create quality films in different eras (i.e. Old Republic, Sequel era etc) then there's no reason they can't release distinct films under the one brand and achieve success.
I think Solo demonstrates why it doesn't work for Star Wars. And I'm not talking Box Office, I'm talking the story. One of the key comments about that movie is just how bland and vanilla it is. Even 2/3rds of Rogue One gets the same comment. It's nothing (really) to do with the writers, and just the fact that Star Wars without the key characters with a compelling plot lacks a bit of the magic.

I found a fantastic article discussing this topic a while back and it was hugely compelling. I'll try to dig it up.

Here:

https://t.co/uSW6vwRyVN
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
I think Solo demonstrates why it doesn't work for Star Wars. And I'm not talking Box Office, I'm talking the story. One of the key comments about that movie is just how bland and vanilla it is. Even 2/3rds of Rogue One gets the same comment. It's nothing (really) to do with the writers, and just the fact that Star Wars without the key characters with a compelling plot lacks a bit of the magic.

I found a fantastic article discussing this topic a while back and it was hugely compelling. I'll try to dig it up.

Here:

https://t.co/uSW6vwRyVN
My point is that Solo isn't universe or brand building, it's a spin-off of a pre-existing character. It worked for Rogue One because Star Wars nostalgia was at its peak. I think Star Wars can work as a universe, but they went to the OT well once too often. If the GoT guys make a fantasy epic in the Old Republic era and RJ makes a standalone trilogy with whole new characters in the ST era, then people will start to realise that Star Wars can be more than just the Skywalkers and it will flourish (though quality remains the key). The novels went in many different directions and I never felt like it was diluting Star Wars.

Maybe they will focus on TV to create a similar effect, maybe TV and movies will work together, but I personally want as much (quality) Star Wars as they can stump up the cash for.
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
My point is that Solo isn't universe or brand building, it's a spin-off of a pre-existing character. It worked for Rogue One because Star Wars nostalgia was at its peak. I think Star Wars can work as a universe, but they went to the OT well once too often. If the GoT guys make a fantasy epic in the Old Republic era and RJ makes a standalone trilogy with whole new characters in the ST era, then people will start to realise that Star Wars can be more than just the Skywalkers and it will flourish (though quality remains the key). The novels went in many different directions and I never felt like it was diluting Star Wars.

Maybe they will focus on TV to create a similar effect, maybe TV and movies will work together, but I personally want as much (quality) Star Wars as they can stump up the cash for.
I agreed once upon a time, but they'll need to do a lot right to win me back over. I just think Star Wars is one brand where something too different will fail (it won't feel like Star Wars) and something too similar will fail (just an echo of the older films).

I think the problem is - and it's been discussed ad nauseum - is the seeming lack of planning. If they'd come out with a clear key concept for the spin offs (i.e. have one be the spy film (as was done), one be a fighter pilot film (this seems like a money printing machine??), one an origins of the Jedi (/Old Republic)) to dip a toe in each key different market that draws people to Star Wars, and then have Trilogy movies between them, they could have started off on much more level footing.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
I agreed once upon a time, but they'll need to do a lot right to win me back over. I just think Star Wars is one brand where something too different will fail (it won't feel like Star Wars) and something too similar will fail (just an echo of the older films).
I made it through Kevin J Anderson's books and kept reading, I can make it through a serviceable, if bland, Solo :D
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
I made it through Kevin J Anderson's books and kept reading, I can make it through a serviceable, if bland, Solo :D
Check my edit. I have no doubt that you are spot on that there ARE avenues for story telling that would largely expand the Star Wars universe and also be appealing to mass audiences. But.. they haven't taken it? Instead of focussing on genres/eras, they're seemingly focussing on events/characters, which I think is the wrong way to look at things.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
Check my edit. I have no doubt that you are spot on that there ARE avenues for story telling that would largely expand the Star Wars universe and also be appealing to mass audiences. But.. they haven't taken it? Instead of focussing on genres/eras, they're seemingly focussing on events/characters, which I think is the wrong way to look at things.
They obviously haven't got the mix just right (though neither are they struggling, they have made $4.5bn off four movies). Perhaps the success of Rogue One pushed them in the nostalgia direction harder, they plumped for Solo, began work on Fett and Kenobi, and now they are realising that nostalgia only got them so far. With the GoT team and RJ working on separate ideas rather than characters, RJ's pitched as completely unrelated in the ST era, then perhaps that is the correct tack they need to take (I think we are all hoping the GoT trilogy is an Old Republic or Jedi/Sith era).

I agree on the fighter pilot film, the second standalone should have been an X-Wing film set post-ROTJ, it would have worked better into the ST as well.
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
They obviously haven't got the mix just right (though neither are they struggling, they have made $4.5bn off four movies). Perhaps the success of Rogue One pushed them in the nostalgia direction harder, they plumped for Solo, began work on Fett and Kenobi, and now they are realising that nostalgia only got them so far. With the GoT team and RJ working on separate ideas rather than characters, RJ's pitched as completely unrelated in the ST era, then perhaps that is the correct tack they need to take (I think we are all hoping the GoT trilogy is an Old Republic or Jedi/Sith era).

I agree on the fighter pilot film, the second standalone should have been an X-Wing film set post-ROTJ, it would have worked better into the ST as well.
Fairly sure it's been confirmed somewhere that it's Old Republic, potentially about Bane.

Completely agree. It's why I'm a bit confused at the naming of Rogue One when it seemed to be building hype for a fighter pilot movie and then pulled a massive swerve. It also means now if they make a Rogue Squadron film they're possibly going to confuse casuals.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
Yep, can't do a Rogue Squadron film now :( Might have to choose a different squadron name (this is an example of a standalone film they can do in between trilogies, budget of $100m and expect to make $500m or so, not $1bn; still a success and drives the brand forward).
 

GG.exe

Killer on the Road ™
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
97,034
Likes
51,437
Location
In every girl's wet dream ℠
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Ravens-Raiders-Dolphins
Thread starter #236
I found a fantastic article discussing this topic a while back and it was hugely compelling. I'll try to dig it up.

Here:

https://t.co/uSW6vwRyVN
best article about any topic in the world ive ever read. thanks for sharing.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
Yep, can't do a Rogue Squadron film now :( Might have to choose a different squadron name (this is an example of a standalone film they can do in between trilogies, budget of $100m and expect to make $500m or so, not $1bn; still a success and drives the brand forward).
Hmm I think a rogue Squadron movie, if marketed right, could have made bank. The only thing casuals like more than Jedi is space fights.
 

mike123

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Posts
26,859
Likes
23,209
AFL Club
Collingwood
Fairly sure it's been confirmed somewhere that it's Old Republic, potentially about Bane.

Completely agree. It's why I'm a bit confused at the naming of Rogue One when it seemed to be building hype for a fighter pilot movie and then pulled a massive swerve. It also means now if they make a Rogue Squadron film they're possibly going to confuse casuals.
They’re 100 percent going to confuse casuals. I know ome person who thought rogue one was a sequel to TFA and wondered why Darth Vader was still alive.
 

GG.exe

Killer on the Road ™
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
97,034
Likes
51,437
Location
In every girl's wet dream ℠
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Ravens-Raiders-Dolphins
Thread starter #239
On youtube, there's a popular channel called Star Wars Theory found here

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8CbFnDTYkiVweaz8y9wd_Q

He made a fan film over the last x months/years called VADER, which finally airs tonight.
So if you're interested in watching it, keep an eye out all day today.

He made a few trailers in the past, here's one of them....

 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
Fairly sure it's been confirmed somewhere that it's Old Republic, potentially about Bane.

Completely agree. It's why I'm a bit confused at the naming of Rogue One when it seemed to be building hype for a fighter pilot movie and then pulled a massive swerve. It also means now if they make a Rogue Squadron film they're possibly going to confuse casuals.
Thinking about this conversation recently, I definitely think Solo has put the brakes on the Star Wars universe as much as some think it was TLJ. The success of TFA and R1 led them to do another OT-based movie, but the nostalgia kick had passed, and they missed the opportunity to build on their universe. My choice of standalone films would have been R1 as done, followed by an X-Wing movie set after ROTJ perhaps showing the liberation of Coruscant, followed by a film set in the PT era post ROTS showing Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi. You get three distinct eras, three distinct genres (war film, fighter/spy and chase/thriller).

You would then follow it up with the GoT Old Republic series and RJ working in the ST era.
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
Thinking about this conversation recently, I definitely think Solo has put the brakes on the Star Wars universe as much as some think it was TLJ. The success of TFA and R1 led them to do another OT-based movie, but the nostalgia kick had passed, and they missed the opportunity to build on their universe. My choice of standalone films would have been R1 as done, followed by an X-Wing movie set after ROTJ perhaps showing the liberation of Coruscant, followed by a film set in the PT era post ROTS showing Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi. You get three distinct eras, three distinct genres (war film, fighter/spy and chase/thriller).

You would then follow it up with the GoT Old Republic series and RJ working in the ST era.
Yep, we're in agreement.

I hated the concept of origin movies from the start.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
Yep, we're in agreement.

I hated the concept of origin movies from the start.
We were saying how the title of Rogue 1 kinda hurt the chances of a Rogue Squadron movie. Likewise, The Last Jedi has kinda hurt the chances of a movie when Vader hunts down the last jedi.
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Posts
84,437
Likes
45,483
Location
North Shore
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Hull City, Adelaide United, EH
We were saying how the title of Rogue 1 kinda hurt the chances of a Rogue Squadron movie. Likewise, The Last Jedi has kinda hurt the chances of a movie when Vader hunts down the last jedi.
Bizarrely there's a Legends book called The Last Jedi. Wonder if it saw a spike in sales after the movie was announced. :D
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,506
Likes
21,513
AFL Club
West Coast
Bizarrely there's a Legends book called The Last Jedi. Wonder if it saw a spike in sales after the movie was announced. :D
Yeah, essentially part of the Coruscant Nights series; I kinda liked the idea of a Jedi trying to remain hidden from Vader post ROTS, think it would be a good film idea for a standalone, with an appearance by Vader.
 
Top Bottom