Movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens - *Spoilers & Rumours inside*

GG.exe

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Thread starter #2,976
Agree on all points especially bolded bits, how much better would it be if the first reveal was Han to Leia "I seen him... I seen our son". Brilliant. Instead it is dropped with all the energy and excitement as a weekly weather forecast, or a few blokes at the pub "hey I seen Jono the other, he's looking well". It was really bad. It's something that should be unforgivable in a project of this magnitude.

However, where the movie succeeded was instilling a sense of heart and realistic interactions with characters that immediately made me, as a viewer, feel warm and welcome. This made up the for jumpy and inconsistent plot and pacing.
I was thinking the same thing. Having Han say that line be the indication. I guess that's all Abrams could've done in the editing room to make it more dramatic after so much of the movie had been already shot and scripted. But later I was thinking, tho it'd take a full re-write, to not even have Leia and Han in that scene reveal so much either. Just cryptic talk about the family tore apart, they can't even talk about it in detail, as it's too hurtful. So leaving it to the bridge scene instead, where just by chance Han and Kylo run into each other, first time Han sees him. Instead of being like a family re-union. It's like Han is yelling at him, and Kylo is yelling back. And as they come closer, Han chiding Kylo to take off his mask and look at him man-to-man, not hide, more like mocking him like Rey did in the interrogation room, and as they get up close, Kylo maybe grips him, with the lightsaber ready, and THEN Han breaks down into tearful words, calling him son, and THEN Kylo tears up and talks about removing his pain, and then he kills him with Han touching his face like he did as tho saying "i love you". There would've been a way to make it like we never know Kylo is his son until that moment. Echoing the Vader-Luke scene in ESB a bit more. The Leia/Han scene more cryptic about the family torn apart. And then having Han more berating Kylo, mocking him, on the bridge, a chance encounter, and the audience thinking like Han is just such a brave bastard going up against the dangerous Kylo, knowing he's probably gonna die, but going out in style at least mouthing off at the villain.
 
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I haven't done a full review here. Where I pinpoint all the things I liked/disliked. But all in all, I really didn't find TFA a well-written STORY at all. I thought the pace of the movie was all misplaced. It zips forward, then slows down, then zips forward, then jumps to some other thing, etc, and overall the scenes skipped ahead too quickly, the DEVELOPMENT of the characters in the story just pushed along, rushed, so disjointed and so many things didn't add up. There was no real TENSION or excitement. Just when it seemed to build, it'd skip disjointed to something else. The only scenes where it was developing well was when Rey found BB8 all the way up to when her and Finn leave Jakku on the MF. And then Abrams just hurried thru the rest of the film. Bad editing by whomever did it. Also, didn't like the way Kylo's reveal being Han's son was done. Having Snoke nonchalantly say it in that scene, where there was no tension or drama.

Not only did John Williams have a shocker. But so did Kasdan. That really doesn't seem like a Kasdan script. But more like an Abrams script that Kasdan would chip in with, overseer, soundboard off, but ultimately Abrams was calling the shots on the story itself and how it develops, the scenes.

Basically, the whole film just felt flat to me. I never really felt carried away by the story, lost in it, except for the Jakku scenes with Rey. That was well-written as a script. The rest of it tho...hurried, disjointed, lacking building of tension, surprise punches, etc. The whole second half of the movie I was just sitting there expressionless, disjointed, walked out as tho I wasn't AFFECTED. Even the prequels were kinda better in terms of getting lost in the story.
From the opening crawl all the way to the end of Rey and Fin escaping from Jakku in the Falcon is the best part of the film.
 

FlowersByIrene

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Cant be his then. Good deduction.
She could be the grandaughter of Obi-Wan though.

As the link GG posted states, Obi-Wan has had the hots for someone pre Phantom Menance days.

If Rey is say 20 - He could have had a child any time up until 10 years before ANH and that child could have had a kid by 20 or so that turns out to be Rey.
 

GG.exe

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Thread starter #2,979
She could be the grandaughter of Obi-Wan though.

As the link GG posted states, Obi-Wan has had the hots for someone pre Phantom Menance days.

If Rey is say 20 - He could have had a child any time up until 10 years before ANH and that child could have had a kid by 20 or so that turns out to be Rey.
True. Good deduction too! Basically Anakin's grandchild versus Obi-Wan's grandchild. Makes more sense.
 

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From the opening crawl all the way to the end of Rey and Fin escaping from Jakku in the Falcon is the best part of the film.
Agreed, heart was in my mouth throughout.

Id say the love continued until the two sets of smugglers showed up. Then the movie started to have some flaws.

I still think it was an excellent Star Wars film, but that first, 40 minutes or so was intense.
 

FlowersByIrene

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True. Good deduction too! Basically Anakin's grandchild versus Obi-Wan's grandchild. Makes more sense.
I didnt even realise it was you I was responding too. Haha.

Yeah could be anything.


Im leaning towards... clone of luke maybe? Ben Kenobi's grandaughter second billing and Luke's daughter third.
 

Thrawn

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Closeups and facials of the battle in Episode 1, plenty of emotion on display.
Facial expressions in battle scenes?

Really?

That is stock standard in every fight scene and something we are to expect. It doesn't imply an emotionally driven film.

Qui Gon being killed and the rage in Obi.
One scene from one actor, is that all you got?

The execution of Dooku in 3.
I'd say that was more emotional than most of the prequels, yeah.

The closeups and facials during Mace vs the Emperor. Again, nothing wooden about it.
Palpatine's many silly faces?

That's your case?

Anakin vs Obi. Everything, see them become physically exhausted toward the end of the battle and they slow down and seriously labour in each move and swing. When Obi says "I'm sorry, I have failed you", the anguish on display after he slays Anakin and the rage and hate as Ani is burned.
The battle got boring. It was too long and dragged out, any sense of strong emotion in that respect was heavily diluted because for the majority of the time we are seeing them doing pointless manoeuvres that resemble a dance club rather than actual fighting and verbal posturing. Sure there was emotion at the start and the end like one would expect, but 80% of the entire fight was just heavily choreographed tripe with poorly delivered lines from Anakin. Compare this fight to Luke vs Vader in ROTJ, the latter had far more emotional weight behind it simply because it was more simple, so it was able to convey its message better without all the flash and dragging out.

They aren't the wooden plastic shells people are making them out to be.
Even if we take "facial expressions" in battles into account, that only accounts for a significantly small portion of the prequels. There's a reason why people call Samuel L Jackson bland and uninspiring in these films, and why Anakin's nickname is Mannequin Skywalker.

I mean, what about when Luke says "you'll find I'm full of surprises!" before doing some ridiculous move where he drops to the ground and is easily disarmed. Who the **** thought that made sense?
Luke at the time is hugely inexperienced when he first takes on Vader, at that point he didn't even finish his training whereas Vader is battle hardened and experienced. It makes perfect sense.
 

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Thrawn

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I think there were a few posts nitpicking at the destruction of the NR capital being viewed from thousands of light years away. A post I spotted from another forum summed it up pretty nicely:
"Again, it bears repeating that the new canon hierarchy is essentially unchanged from the old canon hierarchy, with the films superseding all else, and as a result the old EU has been relegated to the dustbin.

In this case, the Star Wars databank and Visual Dictionary are only canon where they aren't contradicted by the movies. I don't care how much "hyperbabble" you throw at the problem; the visual appearance of the hyperlight weapon, as seen from Takadana, was very similar to the explosion of the second Death Star over Endor. Since there was no indication that the beam was visible from every planet in the galaxy, and such an effect would be extremely SoD breaking, the only logical explanation is that the secondary canon is simply wrong.

This has precedent, by the way: the Star Wars databank used to show the length of the Executor as 8 kilometers (thanks to the West End Games five-mile fallacy) but was eventually corrected to fit Dr. Saxton's visual calculation of 17.6+ kilometers."
Moral of the story - don't take TFA visual dictionary so literally at this moment, because there will be stuff from the movies that will contradict it and eventually the stuff will be retconned.
 
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Also I got the soundtrack off iTunes and it's pretty ******* good. Dunno what was happening in the movie. Maybe JJ/whoever else just isn't used to handling a soundtrack like this. He didn't seem to let it play out as much as Lucas did, and the music was definitely one of the highlights of the prequels. But it's really great.

Highlights:

Main title and the attack on Jakku village
The Scavenger
Rey's Theme
The Falcon
The Girl with the Staff
Finn's Confession
Snoke
Torn Apart
 
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Thrawn

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FFS people, we get it, most people didn't like the prequels, rather than spend the next 30 pages bagging the shit out of them, can we get back to discussing the validity of Jedi undertaking fornication?

No... Nooo.... NOOOOO YOU will get back to discussing the validity of Jedi undertaking fornication.
 

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I'm happy to listen and debate and be wrong, but so many people slandering those scenes is ridiculous, and it doesn't even make sense. I'm yet to see an intelligent rebuttal that doesn't read between the lines as "I DONT LIKE THE PREQUELS DONT QUESTION ME".
You just praised Anakin's cringeworthy screaming of "I hate you" as good acting/emotion. You also claim the Windu vs Emperor fight shows real emotion. That's the one where he screams "Unlimited POWA!".

I think you're going to have to agree to disagree.
 

GG.exe

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Thread starter #2,994
In the novel The Force Awakens (available as an eBook) Rey uses rage to overwhelm Kylo and Snoke actually tells her in her mind to 'kill him' after he is defeated. She recoils.

So for all those clever people who left the cinema thinking, "Rey totally used the dark side to beat him"......yep you were right.
 
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