Movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens - *Spoilers & Rumours inside*

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glenferry23

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whist there's some good points in that list, almost none of them are "plot holes" does no one care about film anymore?
if you want to critique the film just do it.

i stopped here when it became apparent most of it was filler for example this great egg:
Finn is an ex-janitor who goes AWOL from a Stormtrooper force numbering in the tens of thousands.

what? how did you think he was a janiter? he's a ******* stormtrooper.
han asks: where were you stationed when you worked here.
fin answers: sanitation

this doesn't mean he was a janitor it means he was a stormtrooper who was assigned to the sanitation facility.
its A) a 4th wall joke, implying how useless he was a stormy that he was assigned to a useless position and B) a plot device to show how much he cared for a woman he's known for about 2 days.

see the critique here should not be how does a janitor go AWOL and how the first order shouldn't care. in case you missed it, the empire and the first order are space nazis there all about discipline and shit. they aren't going to say well a stormtrooper just turned traitor and helped a rebel pilot escape who may have the information we're looking for and killed several of our people in doing so, lets do nothing. even though they had bigger fish to fry they'd still kill him onsite for being a traitor. hence why he wants to get as far away from them as possible.

the critique
I think the more relevant critique here is how did a sanitation officer/guard know to destroy the entire Starkiller planet? That article goes to extreme lengths to nit pick but does have some valid points (which you could do to most movies really). Instead of listing 40 things wrong, it would've had more cred if it just stuck with say the main half dozen.

Quality v quantity.
 

Janus

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whist there's some good points in that list, almost none of them are "plot holes" does no one care about film anymore?
if you want to critique the film just do it.

i stopped here when it became apparent most of it was filler for example this great egg:
Finn is an ex-janitor who goes AWOL from a Stormtrooper force numbering in the tens of thousands.

what? how did you think he was a janiter? he's a ******* stormtrooper.
han asks: where were you stationed when you worked here.
fin answers: sanitation

this doesn't mean he was a janitor it means he was a stormtrooper who was assigned to the sanitation facility.
its A) a 4th wall joke, implying how useless he was a stormy that he was assigned to a useless position and B) a plot device to show how much he cared for a woman he's known for about 2 days.

see the critique here should not be how does a janitor go AWOL and how the first order shouldn't care. in case you missed it, the empire and the first order are space nazis there all about discipline and shit. they aren't going to say well a stormtrooper just turned traitor and helped a rebel pilot escape who may have the information we're looking for and killed several of our people in doing so, lets do nothing. even though they had bigger fish to fry they'd still kill him onsite for being a traitor. hence why he wants to get as far away from them as possible.

the critique
See, I view him being assigned to sanitation the same way as a military officer is assigned to cleaning the latrines with a toothbrush. Phasma says that he reported to her division, was evaluated and then sent to reconditioning, to which Hux says "There are no previous signs of non compliance". "This was his first offence."

The way I look at it is that he was put in sanitation bevause although he has the makings of an excellent storm trooper it was believed he needed discipline and to know his place. Hence his whole "I'm in charge now!" rant. His very first battle he just went all in on his defiance.
 

Sydney Bloods

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It's a poorly written article but there's some fairly salient points in it. Where are the other Knights of Ren?
you mean the knights of Ren which are never mentioned in the movie, not even once? gee IDK possible they will be part of something outside of the film, perhaps in a medium you've come to know them from?

something that isn't in the film is not a plot hole, its nothing, we know precisely nothing about the KoR or how they operate, essentially your saying "i wanted the Knights of ren to make an appearance and learn something about them. again that's not a problem with the film. this "critique" is you expecting the film to be a certain way. had the film itself made reference to knights of Ren then there could possibly be an issue depending on how they are handled. but theirs no issue with the film because kylo being a KOR has no impact on the film. you gathered this information from outside the film.

there are a few good points maybe 10 if we stretch it a little and even those are nickpicking. For example Rey says that the Millennium Falcon is "garbage" and hasn't been flown in many, many years. This is possibly the best point one the list, this is actually a plot hole. round of applause out of a list of 40 points we stumble on to something which jars with the internal consistence of the film.

saying there's some salient points in an article where the author makes this blunder:
Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant? Because if not, wouldn't him using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that; he just appeared normal-sized or tiny.


is like saying a broken clock is right twice a day.
 

GG.exe

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I'm just about to purchase the official novel from Google Play. So I can read that exact passage and see what light it sheds on it. Could be a great $18 investment to prove myself right :p
:( ok so i was wrong about something for a change :cool:

----

“Ben!” It echoed across the gap, reverberated through the vast open space below. On the far side, a tall figure turned and retraced his last few steps. “Han Solo.” Kylo Ren stared across at the older man. “I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time.” “Take off that mask.” Han’s tone was a mix of command and empathy. “You don’t need it. Not here. Not with me.” “What do you think you’ll see if I do take it off?” Han moved forward slightly. “The face of my son.” “Your son is gone. He was weak and foolish, like his father.” Ren’s reply was replete with pity. And anger. “So I destroyed him. But such a small, insignificant request is easily granted.”

Reaching up, he slowly removed the mask. For the first time Han saw the face of his son as a grown man—and it jolted him. Both men were so intent on each other, so preoccupied with their encounter, that neither noticed the newly arrived presence on a railing overhead. Having slipped inside to search for Han and Chewbacca, Finn and Rey found themselves peering down from up high at the pair confronting each other below. “That’s what Snoke wants you to believe,” Han was saying. He wasn’t pleading—just stating a fact. “But it’s not true. My son is still alive. I’m looking at him right now.” The exchange drew another onlooker, as on a level above, Chewie moved to watch and listen. Ren’s eyes blazed. “No! The Supreme Leader is wise. He knows me for who I am, and who I can become. He knows you for what you really are, Han Solo. Not a general, not a hero. Just a small-time thief and smuggler.” A trace of a grin flashed across Han’s face. “Well, he’s got that part right.” Similarly drawn by the sounds of conversation and disagreement, a third group of spectators had arrived. Held rapt by the confrontation, the squad of stormtroopers looked on as intently as did Finn, Rey, and Chewbacca. Fearful of taking an initiative that might be frowned upon, they awaited a your power, manipulating your abilities. When he’s gotten everything he wants out of you, he’ll crush you. Toss you aside. You know it’s true. If you have half the ability, half the perception that I know you do, you know that I’m telling you the truth. Because unlike him, I have nothing to gain from it.” Ren hesitated. “It’s too late,” he said. “No, it’s not.” Halfway across the walkway now, Han continued to move forward, smiling. “Never too late for the truth. Leave here with me. Come home.” Without the slightest trace of malice or deception, he cast a dagger. “Your mother misses you.” A strange sensation touched the younger man’s cheeks. Something long forgotten. Dampness. Tears. “I’m being torn apart. I want—I want to be free of this pain .” Han took another step, then stopped, waiting. A decision had to be made, and for once it was not his to make. “I know what I have to do, but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it.” Ren moved out onto the walkway toward Han. “Will you help me?” “Yes,” Han told him. “Anything.”

Halting an arm’s length from his father, Ren unclipped his lightsaber, looked down at it for a moment, and then extended it toward Han. For an instant that seemed to extend into forever, nothing happened. Smiling, Han reached for the weapon. Then, as the light from outside was fully blocked by the flow of descending, accumulating dark energy, Ren ignited the lightsaber—and the fiery red beam lanced outward to pierce Han’s chest from front to back. “Thank you,” Ren murmured, and truly, the darkness above was mimicked by the darkness in his voice. From their perch high above, Finn and Rey gasped simultaneously. “Solo. Solo.” Finn put an arm around the girl beside him. “Rey.” “No,” she whispered. “No, no, no . . .” Accepting without quite believing, Han stared back into the face of the creature that had been his son. There was nothing to see there. Only darkness in the shape of a face: alien, unthinking, unfeeling. His knees buckled, the beam tilting down with him as he crumpled. Ren extinguished it. For another moment Han held on to the edge of the walkway. A rush of memories flashed through his mind: worlds and time, friends and enemies, triumphs and failures. Words he wished he had spoken and others he regretted. All gone now, lost in an instant, like the one he would never again be able to hold in his arms. Then he fell, to head lowering, and started to cry. Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened. He did not hear the roar of the enraged Wookiee above, but he did feel the sting of the shot from the bowcaster as it slammed into his side, knocking him back on the walkway.
 

GG.exe

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you mean the knights of Ren which are never mentioned in the movie, not even once?
The knights of ren ARE mentioned in the movie. Snoke talks to Kylo and says something like, "even you, the master of the knights of ren, have never faced such a test."
 

UnitedWarrior93

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Does everyone else agree about this? Seems a lot of people took the bridge scene as something else.

But imo Kylo didn't almost go with Han, then change his mind.

Han KNEW that Kylo was suffering great pain, having the light still in him, and that he needs his father's help to stop the pain.

Han agrees, holds the lightsaber with Kylo, he HELPS his son because he loves him, helps him suck it up and kill his own father so that his son doesn't suffer anymore.

There's even symbolism evident in that scene. The light of the sun is completely drained just before Kylo kills Han. Suggesting the light in Kylo is now extinguished.
Kylo knew what he was doing and also I think Han Solo knew his death was upon him. Just wanted to let him know he loves him.
 

Toump Ass

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Star Wars is serious business :D

As I said it's poorly written and you're righ; they're not plot-holes at all!

Regardless of semantics, I like comments like this one:
"Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!" Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for him in the wrong direction."

I also was wondering during the film why there was no CCTV. I mean they had it on the Death Star already.
 

Catastic82

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Star Wars is serious business :D

As I said it's poorly written and you're righ; they're not plot-holes at all!

Regardless of semantics, I like comments like this one:
"Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!" Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for him in the wrong direction."

I also was wondering during the film why there was no CCTV. I mean they had it on the Death Star already.
Too much interference in the factory probbly
 

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Sydney Bloods

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Star Wars is serious business :D

As I said it's poorly written and you're righ; they're not plot-holes at all!

Regardless of semantics, I like comments like this one:
"Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!" Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for him in the wrong direction."

I also was wondering during the film why there was no CCTV. I mean they had it on the Death Star already.
as i said there's some good points, hell this thread has made some bloody good points for example fins stupid character development and the ******ation of calling the resistance, "the resistance" to drive home how much of good people they are. even though they are basically an illegal militia used to fight the republics a dirty war, free from oversight and responsibility. its already on shaky ground, add in the religious overtones of devotion to the jedi and force and suddenly can you really by sure they are the good guys?

even with the good guy name? better throw in a third reich speech for the first order to really hammer that home. just in case it wasn't clear enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hux was sporting a little moe in episode 8.
 
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Bomberboyokay

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So what you're saying is it's ok to see a male turn, but not a female? Stupid and blatantly sexist in the truest sense of the word. Besides, you're looking at it black and white. She can fall or at least flirt with the dark side and not become evil. Moral ambiguity is a fact of life, especially in a time of crisis. I'm not saying she's going to choke out everyone and kill mercilessly...just that there will be aspects of it where people will go 'well she's not a goody two shoes after all'.
No sexism. Just recognition Star Wars' and Breaking Bad's target audiences are worlds apart.
 

james Dean

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Saw it for the second time last night, one thing I noticed second time around which may have already been mentioned here is,

the score when Luke is on screen sounds similar to the imperial march.. Not sure what (if anything) this means but found it interesting.
 

Starburns_

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Does everyone else agree about this? Seems a lot of people took the bridge scene as something else.

But imo Kylo didn't almost go with Han, then change his mind.

Han KNEW that Kylo was suffering great pain, having the light still in him, and that he needs his father's help to stop the pain.

Han agrees, holds the lightsaber with Kylo, he HELPS his son because he loves him, helps him suck it up and kill his own father so that his son doesn't suffer anymore.

There's even symbolism evident in that scene. The light of the sun is completely drained just before Kylo kills Han. Suggesting the light in Kylo is now extinguished.
Read it more as Solo being naive and thinking he could do with him what Luke did with Vader (being well aware of Ren's obvious vulnerabilities). He knew it was high stakes, but felt he had to try anyway.

Ren clearly was conflicted in that moment, don't think he nearly goes with Han, but he certainly hesitates before he reaches the point of no return.

Only if she got out of the trash compactor before the planet blew although that sort of problem hasn't seemed to bother JJ, i.e. Hux needed to find Kylo and get off planet before it blew and Poe got off Jakku and back to the Resistance base before the others even got to that other planet.
She gets thrown down there a fair while before the shit hits the fan though. The X-Wings have the failed attack before Han and Chewie set the charges to create the hole for Poe to fly through. Her escaping is far more plausible than Kylo Ren escaping.

It's a poorly written article but there's some fairly salient points in it. Where are the other Knights of Ren?
If the relatively weak and angsty Ren is their leader then the rest must be borderline useless. :p

Star Wars is serious business :D

As I said it's poorly written and you're righ; they're not plot-holes at all!

Regardless of semantics, I like comments like this one:
"Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!" Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for him in the wrong direction."

I also was wondering during the film why there was no CCTV. I mean they had it on the Death Star already.
Vader feels Obi-Wan's presence on the Death Star in ANH, but that doesn't lead to him finding him. There hasn't really been anything in any of the films to suggest that the feeling gets stronger with greater proximity.
 

peternorth

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Finn is an ex-janitor who goes AWOL from a Stormtrooper force numbering in the tens of thousands.
See, I view him being assigned to sanitation the same way as a military officer is assigned to cleaning the latrines with a toothbrush. Phasma says that he reported to her division, was evaluated and then sent to reconditioning, to which Hux says "There are no previous signs of non compliance". "This was his first offence."

The way I look at it is that he was put in sanitation bevause although he has the makings of an excellent storm trooper it was believed he needed discipline and to know his place. Hence his whole "I'm in charge now!" rant. His very first battle he just went all in on his defiance.
the way i see it is that if he was sanitatory, its the lowest position in the ST ranks. but as someone who i respect told me, even if you work at maccas as a teenager, sweeping floors, its something. better than bludging on the dole, or faking disabilities to get the DSP.

Ren clearly was conflicted in that moment, don't think he nearly goes with Han, but he certainly hesitates before he reaches the point of no return.
probably result of having so much to do, so little time
 

Starburns_

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the way i see it is that if he was sanitatory, its the lowest position in the ST ranks. but as someone who i respect told me, even if you work at maccas as a teenager, sweeping floors, its something. better than bludging on the dole, or faking disabilities to get the DSP.



probably result of having so much to do, so little time
If he had more time he could've pranked him by digging a punji pit.
 

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Thread starter #3,072
The Force Awakens survival guide. Some interesting tidbits:

1. she has a y-wing computer display and uses it to study rebel and imperial schematics and run flight sims.
2. she practices droidspeak and alien language to be able to talk to others. Wookiees have stopped by.
3. she collects flowers to remind herself there's beauty everywhere and also when she first found one she thought if a flower can survive in the barren land, she could too.
4. Her speeder is made from scratch. She put a fingerprint ignition, made it so someone can't hotwire it and makes it so if some does it gives off an electric shock.
5. She mentions she always been good at figuring out languages just like machines.
6. she knows all about the ships that have crashed on Jakku because she's studied the manuals and scavenged them.
7. she used to work for others at first, they used her cuz she was tiny and could get into small spaces. However, she realized she could scavenge and survive better than them and they needed them but she didn't need them and started working alone and for herself.
8. Unkar Plutt told others to back off and leave her alone when she first started out
9. Niima the Hutt ran Jakku until she was killed.
10. sometimes she sees people "who shouldn't be here" and she worries and tries to look out for them so they don't end up like her, mistakenly left there.
 

Ice-Wolf

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So any thoughts on why Han and Leia named their son Ben? Han only knew him for a very short time and thought he was a crazy old man, and Leia only knew him as Obi-Wan and had never actually met him knowing him only as an ally of her fathers.
 

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look i'm far from getting any accreditation in English, but does he really not understand that the first order are space nazis?
i mean really? flame throwers? do you think that maybe, just maybe they are there because a flame thrower is a horribly ****** up weapon and burning people alive is a bad thing?
not to mention that flame troopers are a nod to a lot of EU shit.

this mother****** has a big hammer, but he somehow keeps missing the nails.

edit:
The Force Awakens, an already confusing movie


is their another definition of confusing i'm not aware of? its a basic ******* action movie set in space.
 
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