Movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens - *Spoilers & Rumours inside*

Kangaroos4eva

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Posts
36,423
Likes
60,292
Location
NSW
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
West Ham United
The Kylo of the first half of the movie was the image Kylo projected. The second half was the (current) real thing.

Kylo may be strong in the force, but he does not understand how to let it speak through him. His power comes not in Anger and Hate, but in Fear. He doesn't "Feel" the force, as much as he "Wants" the force. As a 'Jedi' he was weak-minded, his failures leading to embarrassment and humiliation led him to embrace the dark-side - temporarily increasing his performance. Seduced by the easier path, Kylo WANTS to be a 'Sith', but is not necessarily evil. He tried to prove to himself through killing Han, but instead this will ultimately be what makes him rethink his ideals.

Rey may also be strong in the force, but more importantly has a natural ability to 'feel' the force - throughout the movie, she consistently embraced aggression as a conduit. When faced with the 'enemy', she - like Luke before her - will turn to dark side powers to win. The question will then be - can she resist the temptation, turning her back on her ultimate potential for the "greater good"?
That he's too scared to fully embrace either side of the force out of fear that he will fall and fail his grandfather's legacy. Next movie, he'll be fully embracive of the dark side, understand it's background and how to draw on anger, Snoke seems to be the bloke to get it out of him.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Righteo

Purple Campaigner
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Posts
30,328
Likes
33,758
Location
West
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Celtics - The Brew Crew
Does everyone else agree about this? Seems a lot of people took the bridge scene as something else.

But imo Kylo didn't almost go with Han, then change his mind.

Han KNEW that Kylo was suffering great pain, having the light still in him, and that he needs his father's help to stop the pain.

Han agrees, holds the lightsaber with Kylo, he HELPS his son because he loves him, helps him suck it up and kill his own father so that his son doesn't suffer anymore.

There's even symbolism evident in that scene. The light of the sun is completely drained just before Kylo kills Han. Suggesting the light in Kylo is now extinguished.
I agree, I interpreted it the same way. Han was sacrificing himself in the hope of bringing him salvation. There was decent foreshadowing for it too, whenever Han spoke of Ren in the movie he was adamant that he was a "lost cause" which I initially thought was strangely cold of him. I think he had long ago resolved himself to that kind of end and didn't want Leia catching wind of his essentially suicidal intentions.

I don't believe Han only made the decision literally when already on the bridge. Of course, that's all assuming Han did actually allow himself to die. It also requires you to believe Han was a fairly "deep" character. I dunno, maybe I've been reading too much manga, that type of self-sacrificial shit is pretty common in Jap culture.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Posts
58,348
Likes
47,448
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
LFC, Demons, Melb City, Bears
That he's too scared to fully embrace either side of the force out of fear that he will fall and fail his grandfather's legacy. Next movie, he'll be fully embracive of the dark side, understand it's background and how to draw on anger, Snoke seems to be the bloke to get it out of him.
Maybe Carlton should hire Snoke.
 

FlowersByIrene

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Posts
16,610
Likes
17,620
Location
Perth via Carlton Land
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Knicks, Giants, Man U
Just on Finn again...

His whole character was inconsistent. Not just that aspect of the story, but elsewhere too. Like him saying, "no one has looked at me like you did the first time" to Rey, but the first time Rey looked at him was with anger and suspicion. In short, he's just a sidekick thruout the story, he is fully involved in every scene where there is a plot hole, or a device to move the story along. It seems.
When he means the first time you looked at me he is talking about the look in her eyes when he said he worked for the resistence and they actually introduced each other.
 

Catastic82

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Posts
10,232
Likes
11,316
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
None
The Kylo of the first half of the movie was the image Kylo projected. The second half was the (current) real thing.

Kylo may be strong in the force, but he does not understand how to let it speak through him. His power comes not in Anger and Hate, but in Fear. He doesn't "Feel" the force, as much as he "Wants" the force. As a 'Jedi' he was weak-minded, his failures leading to embarrassment and humiliation led him to embrace the dark-side - temporarily increasing his performance. Seduced by the easier path, Kylo WANTS to be a 'Sith', but is not necessarily evil. He tried to prove to himself through killing Han, but instead this will ultimately be what makes him rethink his ideals.

Rey may also be strong in the force, but more importantly has a natural ability to 'feel' the force - throughout the movie, she consistently embraced aggression as a conduit. When faced with the 'enemy', she - like Luke before her - will turn to dark side powers to win. The question will then be - can she resist the temptation, turning her back on her ultimate potential for the "greater good"?
QFT

Very well put
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Posts
58,348
Likes
47,448
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
LFC, Demons, Melb City, Bears
Why did Chewie hand Han a raincoat hoody in the elevator, which Han is wearing when the door re-opens. Han then immediately kills a stormtrooper, and then takes off the raincoat.

:drunk::confused:o_O
Han wore it while they walked across the snow between the base and the place they had to blow up.
 

GG.exe

Killer on the Road ™
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
96,615
Likes
51,240
Location
In every girl's wet dream
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Ravens-Raiders-Dolphins
Thread starter #3,136
Sorry x3. :(

Just replying to someone else about my Finn gripe, and in the process rebutting my own argument!

---

from someone said:
I think it's wrong of him to kill because killing is wrong. It isn't wrong to defend himself. The problem is that he doesn't seem to really respond to the situation. He knows these stormtroopers. That fact, and 20 years of conditioning shouldn't just evaporate. It's a narrative problem; not a moral one. At least when it comes to the FO as an organization. As individuals, there is a moral problem and Finn should be struggling with it. Heck, they all should.

But let's not become easily confused… Or am I missing a joke?

Finn is NOT a soldier or a 'deserter'; none of the stormtroopers are, apparently. Except, I suppose, from the perspective of the FO, whose perspective is very clearly very warped, sick, and twisted.

These are not men and women who have steadfastly determined to lay down their lives for a cause they believe in. They are victims, kidnapped at very young ages and brainwashed to take orders and kill. Comparing the stormtroopers to X-wing pilots ,or comparing Finn turning his back on his conditioning and the FO to a what-if scenario where Poe kills other Resistance fighters is… Well, I just don't follow that.

If the Resistance was secretly abducting children and programming them to become soldiers, I would absolutely hope that Leia, Poe, and all of the characters meant to be heroes would immediately oppose them. Definitely. Loyalty to evil is not somehow 'admirable'; it's just evil.

Finn should be fighting the First Order, but killing FO soldiers should be incredibly complicated and difficult for him because he understands who they are.
GG.exe said:
Maybe he hates himself, thus hates his stormtrooper buddies? That being the cathartic moment for him?? And hence, becomes this high-fiving very human sidekick immediately. No longer robotic, but a heavy-breathing man, with desires, wants, emotions, and that is why his character is all over the shop the rest of the movie. Him getting a grasp of what being an emotional being is.

Have I just rebutted my own argument why the Finn character was poorly written?!! :p
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

FlowersByIrene

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Posts
16,610
Likes
17,620
Location
Perth via Carlton Land
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Knicks, Giants, Man U
Why did Chewie hand Han a raincoat hoody in the elevator, which Han is wearing when the door re-opens. Han then immediately kills a stormtrooper, and then takes off the raincoat.

:drunk::confused:o_O
Chewie said it was Cold
Han said - youre cold? Wearing the jacket
He dropped it when they got into the shield place
As they were leaving Chewie picks it up for him so he isnt cold again
Han takes it
They go over to the osilator (or whatever it was) and Han drops it again when they get back in

Was a cute moment. Last bromance moment between them :(
 

little graham

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Posts
17,767
Likes
11,604
AFL Club
Adelaide
I agree, I interpreted it the same way. Han was sacrificing himself in the hope of bringing him salvation. There was decent foreshadowing for it too, whenever Han spoke of Ren in the movie he was adamant that he was a "lost cause" which I initially thought was strangely cold of him. I think he had long ago resolved himself to that kind of end and didn't want Leia catching wind of his essentially suicidal intentions.

I don't believe Han only made the decision literally when already on the bridge. Of course, that's all assuming Han did actually allow himself to die. It also requires you to believe Han was a fairly "deep" character. I dunno, maybe I've been reading too much manga, that type of self-sacrificial shit is pretty common in Jap culture.
He was doing what Leia asked him to do for there son. no other reason or thought, it was instinct. Very chivalrous.

How he died was fitting to how he lived his life. remember the first time we met Hans? dodgy campaigner

 

glenferry23

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Posts
20,314
Likes
23,271
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal, New York Yankees
Someone else's post agreeing with me on another forum....
Some valid points raised here regarding the inconsistency between Finn's decisions. It was weak writing, which along with Starkiller Base's destruction and Leia/Chewie blanking each other are the lowlights of the film for me.

Still overall an excellent return to form for Star Wars. But I don't rank TFA in the 'greatness' category of say TESB and ANH for reasons such as above.
 

Heardy_101

Premiership Player
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Posts
4,562
Likes
3,360
Location
Redhill
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Portsmouth
I think Kylo Ren represent Lucas's original idea of Darth Vader, where at the end of Star Wars Vader was going to be revealed as a pathetic man in a mask who used his mask to intimidate but without it was a little dick.

Sound familiar?
 

GG.exe

Killer on the Road ™
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
96,615
Likes
51,240
Location
In every girl's wet dream
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Ravens-Raiders-Dolphins
Thread starter #3,142
It's not just me interpreting that bridge scene in the context I saw it.

Are we sure Kylo's killing of Han Solo was what it seemed? What if Kylo is pulling a Snape... pretending to go to the dark side in order to defeat Snoke? Having seen it three times now, I noticed that we don't see any close-ups of the moment the lightsaber is ignited. Kylo tells Han he knows what he has to do but doesn't know if he has the strength. Let's say what he means is performing an act that will cement his full turn to the dark side in the eyes of Snoke. He needs to kill his own father but can't. Kylo asks Han for help, and holds out the saber. Han grabs it. There seems to be a struggle. What if Han realizes what Kylo is doing, and points the saber at himself, but Kylo is resisting? Han ignites the saber and sacrifices himself to feed the illusion that Kylo has fully crossed over to the dark side. Han's apparent murder convinces Snoke to complete Kylo's training, whatever that means, possibly allowing Kylo an opportunity to destroy Snoke.

Maybe Kylo truly does worship Vader... the Vader that was able to destroy the Emperor. Perhaps he believes he has to, like Vader, fully embrace the dark side in order to overcome someone as powerful as Snoke. It would put Driver's comments about Kylo believing he's "right" into perspective.
 

GG.exe

Killer on the Road ™
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
96,615
Likes
51,240
Location
In every girl's wet dream
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Ravens-Raiders-Dolphins
Thread starter #3,145
Chewie said it was Cold
Han said - youre cold? Wearing the jacket
He dropped it when they got into the shield place
As they were leaving Chewie picks it up for him so he isnt cold again
Han takes it
They go over to the osilator (or whatever it was) and Han drops it again when they get back in

Was a cute moment. Last bromance moment between them :(
Cheers, big ears. :)
 

GG.exe

Killer on the Road ™
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
96,615
Likes
51,240
Location
In every girl's wet dream
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Ravens-Raiders-Dolphins
Thread starter #3,149
No way is that the deal.

Han would never sacrifice himself to send his kid to the Dark Side; that's crazy talk.
What if like that guy concluded tho.....Kylo is really trying to bring down Snoke, and the only way he can do it is by fully committing to the dark side, having Snoke convinced he has. Maybe Snoke corrupted him and he knows it (like Han told him on the bridge). Maybe Daisy is the one who turns to evil? She did apparently use the dark side when beating Kylo, and had Snoke in her head telling her to kill Kylo (the novel says this).
 
Top Bottom