Movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens - *Spoilers & Rumours inside*

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Apr 12, 2012
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It's a reimagining of the prequels, not an analysis. Therefore, any changes are fair game, and none of what's suggested is extreme anyway. One of these writings is entitled something like "Lucas had the perfect trilogy there in front of him the whole time and didn't make use of what he'd already invented"...

Having said that, you have no basis to make that claim. The line of "innocence" is a blurry one when it comes to war, and I'd argue that the killing of a couple of million Death Star personnel crosses that sanctimonious line (watch Clerks - he's totally spot on...!). I was recently watching the blu-ray SW features, specifically a deleted scene of Greedo pointing his gun at Han, where he makes reference to the bodies on the floor and stating that one more (Han) won't be noticed - those bodies were Dr Evazan and Pondo Baba, who'd just been attacked by Obi-Wan with a light saber and not mind tricks. The definite meaning behind Windu's comment "forcibly removed from power" to the other Jedi regarding Palpatine (EIII, they're in the transport) is arrest or assassination, whatever is required.

On the other hand, I recall no instance of a Sith attempting to kill anyone who wasn't in the same category as those mentioned above - enemy soldiers, star destroyer bridge officers, senators from Naboo, Jedi sure, but at no stage in the SW movies do we see an ordinary pleb with no military affiliations cut down by a Sith...again, unlike the Clerks scenario...!
Did you watch Empire? Vader did it regularly

Starwars they took out a planet.

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Apr 27, 2008
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I enjoyed and had fun with TFA even with some issues.
The prequals lacked the "fun" element even though they tried to have it. There was no thrill.

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The fun in TFA died the minute they found Han. Phantom Menace had a couple of moments like the Pod Race, but yeah otherwise I guess fun was hard to find as the tone got darker, or it was stupid (the battle droid factory). Fun aside they still had entertaining and original sequences. Only the Lightsabre battle at the end of awakens is comparable in that regard.

Better made movie? Easily than Episode I and II, yes. Pretty even with III.

A better Star Wars adventure? Not for me.

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Apr 12, 2012
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The fun in TFA died the minute the found Han. Phantom Menace had a couple of moments like the Pod Race, but yeah otherwise I guess fun was hard to find as the tone got darker, or it was stupid (the battle droid factory). Fun aside they still had entertaining and original sequences. Only the Lightsabre battle at the end is comparable.

Better made movie? Easily than Episode I and II, yes. Pretty even with III.

A better Star Wars adventure? Not for me.

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They tried with the pod race in ep1 and speeder chase through the capital and the new asteroid chase in ep2 but it felt wrong and not fun.

Either the writing or acting killed the prequals. Felt the most wooden and yeah no fun.
Which is what i think star wars is.

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Apr 27, 2008
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They tried with the pod race in ep1 and speeder chase through the capital and the new asteroid chase in ep2 but it felt wrong and not fun.

Either the writing or acting killed the prequals. Felt the most wooden and yeah no fun.
Which is what i think star wars is.

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I actually thought the Asteroid chase was pretty good, one of the highlights of that mess.

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Apr 27, 2008
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Did you watch Empire? Vader did it regularly

Starwars they took out a planet.

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Watched it last night.

Literally, this. Surely some sort of workplace relations needs to be established. He was off the chain. He's actually a campaigner.

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Mar 5, 2005
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i really wish we had the real original notes on Lucas' ideas for I-III.... you watch Ep III and it just doesn't "gel" with Ep IV

- should have introduced Anakin as a 19 year old farm boy on Tatooine, just like Luke in Ep IV... and he is not space Jesus... he has non-force sensitive parents (Shmi and Kane Skywalker), and throw in a sister in there too (Beru)
- Anakin, Palpatine, Obi Wan and Yoda should have been the only major OT characters in the prequels... Owen and Beru in there in minor roles... I wouldn't have even given Yoda a large role in it either, build him up as a legendary Jedi who is kind of semi-retired (Obi Wan was his last apprentice).. no R2, no, 3PO, no Chewbacca, no Fetts
- the clones in the Clone Wars are an alien race of clones from beyond the known galaxy who pose a threat to the Republic... the predecessors to the Stormtrooopers is the army that battles them, they are not the clones themselves!
- FFS, have a good portion of the prequels actually take place on Alderaan, I mean, Naboo could have been Alderaan!... make me actually care that it gets blown up in Ep IV
- minimal amount of politics as possible, or explain things at a higher level if needed, don't bore the audience with galactic politics
- Darth Maul was good... but keep him in there for the whole trilogy, basically be the Vader of the prequels (Maul v Anakin saber duel in Ep 3)
 
It's a reimagining of the prequels, not an analysis. Therefore, any changes are fair game, and none of what's suggested is extreme anyway. One of these writings is entitled something like "Lucas had the perfect trilogy there in front of him the whole time and didn't make use of what he'd already invented"...

Having said that, you have no basis to make that claim. The line of "innocence" is a blurry one when it comes to war, and I'd argue that the killing of a couple of million Death Star personnel crosses that sanctimonious line (watch Clerks - he's totally spot on...!). I was recently watching the blu-ray SW features, specifically a deleted scene of Greedo pointing his gun at Han, where he makes reference to the bodies on the floor and stating that one more (Han) won't be noticed - those bodies were Dr Evazan and Pondo Baba, who'd just been attacked by Obi-Wan with a light saber and not mind tricks. The definite meaning behind Windu's comment "forcibly removed from power" to the other Jedi regarding Palpatine (EIII, they're in the transport) is arrest or assassination, whatever is required.

On the other hand, I recall no instance of a Sith attempting to kill anyone who wasn't in the same category as those mentioned above - enemy soldiers, star destroyer bridge officers, senators from Naboo, Jedi sure, but at no stage in the SW movies do we see an ordinary pleb with no military affiliations cut down by a Sith...again, unlike the Clerks scenario...!

Um the military under the power of the Sith Lord wasn't routinely killing innocents? Death Star blowing up planets of unarmed people, anyone? That's mental, and something a Jedi would never do. Call it a reimagining if that's what they call it. That's fine. But it's still a totally different story to Star Wars if so.

I think of the blowing up of the Death Star as like the bombs dropped on Japan. The US was still on the righteous side in WW2, however you look at it. The blowing of the Death Star ended a war and removed a murderous empire from the galaxy. You can look at things from different perspectives and say the lines of right and wrong become blurry, but there's no way you can argue the Jedi and Sith are equally good and bad. It just doesn't stack up.
 
Apr 27, 2008
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Everyone on Death Star 1 was in direct service of the Empire. I would say even on Death Star 2 they probably evacuated all non military persons knowing that the Alliance was coming and it was an intentional trap.

It isn't like the Rebels showed up out of nowhere and blew a bunch of surprised painters and window washers up.

Do windows get dirty in space?

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Remember reading once that 2 million imperials were on the DS.

Legitimate military target or not, that's a helluva deathtoll.
 
Mar 21, 2008
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Did you watch Empire? Vader did it regularly

Starwars they took out a planet.

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Oh yes...Alderaan...how quickly they forget...!

And before anyone gets in, Hosnian Prime doesn't count, because the New Order aren't the Empire, and we're not even sure that Snoke is a Sith...I might have just run out of straws...

Vader didn't though. He just murdered his officers for failure, or took out rebels...all military...
 
Mar 21, 2008
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Everyone on Death Star 1 was in direct service of the Empire. I would say even on Death Star 2 they probably evacuated all non military persons knowing that the Alliance was coming and it was an intentional trap.

It isn't like the Rebels showed up out of nowhere and blew a bunch of surprised painters and window washers up.

Do windows get dirty in space?

Sent from mTalk
Space dust? Hell yes. Gets in everywhere...

But you don't have to be surprised to qualify as an innocent. I'd imagine there are a fair few people in Syria right now who are fully aware of what's going on around them, but aren't a part of the fight...

In the deleted ROTJ scenes, the Emperor orders Jerjerrod to destroy the forest moon, despite Jerjerrod's protests that there are several Imperial battalions still down there, so I wouldn't bet on the Emperor evacuating anyone for two reasons - 1) he doesn't give a f### (remember, he's just said he wants the station completed quicksmart (Jerjerrod: "we shall double our efforts") so he's not about to let the decorators piss off back to their depot for smoko...you give tradesmen an inch and they take you back a week...and 2) he thinks he's got a victory in the bag...
 
Apr 27, 2008
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What benefit would destroying Endoor serve? If the shield was already down, then its just for killing rebels that pose no threat to the space station. If the shield was still up then blowing up Endoor would disable it.

Not to mention damage done by proximity.

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glenferry23

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That's interesting, I didn't know that. At what point did he want Endor destroyed I wonder?

The debris surely would've been catastrophic to the Death Star and the fleet though.
 
Mar 21, 2008
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What benefit would destroying Endoor serve? If the shield was already down, then its just for killing rebels that pose no threat to the space station. If the shield was still up then blowing up Endoor would disable it.

Not to mention damage done by proximity.

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That's interesting, I didn't know that. At what point did he want Endor destroyed I wonder?

The debris surely would've been catastrophic to the Death Star and the fleet though.
Real life scientists, when not working on projects actually beneficial to mankind, have already established that blowing up the Death Star would have wiped out all life on the forest moon...best we ignore science altogether...

Most likely the Emperor was trying to swing Luke over by making him watch his friends die and suffer...a bit of a common theme (luring him to Bespin by torturing Han and Leia), and seeing as the Emperor places great value on his role in the whole Sith master/apprentice structure, manipulating Luke by destroying an innocent planet wouldn't be too high a price...he thinks his trap is foolproof, he's about to destroy the rebellion (the only group really able to exploit the lack of a shield, which I'm sure the Emperor could afford to quickly replace somewhere else anyway), and his new battle station is "fully operational"...so he's not too worried about losing Endor or even a few of his own ships at this point (remember Vader was happy to let his fleet get pulverised in the Asteroid Belt in order to catch the Falcon). Having said that, obviously Lucas and Marquand saw all this as unsuitable for the finished product, and it got left out. It's worth mentioning simply because Lucas had this scenario in mind...rejected yes, but fairly consistent with everything else...
 
Apr 27, 2008
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Lol, everyone remember that split second scene from the asteroid belt in Empire, where the star destroyer gets hit, then in the next scene with Vader talking to the commanders in the holograms, one of them disappears barely a second in to it?

Classic.

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Mar 21, 2008
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Was only watching that today. I disagree, only because the novelty would have been wasted on a nothing character like UP. If they ever did put it in, I'd like to see it in either:

1) a scene where Chewbacca goes truly apeshit...it would have fit in perfectly the moment after Han died, if they'd surrounded Chewie with a bunch of stormtroopers and he's ripped them all to pieces in a fit of rage...or

2) a scene where he's playing that table game the quote originally come from in ANH, and he loses...!
 

glenferry23

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Was only watching that today. I disagree, only because the novelty would have been wasted on a nothing character like UP. If they ever did put it in, I'd like to see it in either:

1) a scene where Chewbacca goes truly apeshit...it would have fit in perfectly the moment after Han died, if they'd surrounded Chewie with a bunch of stormtroopers and he's ripped them all to pieces in a fit of rage...or

2) a scene where he's playing that table game the quote originally come from in ANH, and he loses...!

Was really hoping for number 1. Han dying was the perfect moment for him to * s**t up. His roar of rage when Han was stabbed was epic, and I thought to myself "here we go!"

He could've finished Ben off by the way. Shot him once then nothing. Presumably, he has known him since he was a baby, so perhaps couldn't bring himself to do it.
 

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The Deathstar is a warship full of military personnel. Its not 'a Japan'

Um the military under the power of the Sith Lord wasn't routinely killing innocents? Death Star blowing up planets of unarmed people, anyone? That's mental, and something a Jedi would never do. Call it a reimagining if that's what they call it. That's fine. But it's still a totally different story to Star Wars if so.

I think of the blowing up of the Death Star as like the bombs dropped on Japan. The US was still on the righteous side in WW2, however you look at it. The blowing of the Death Star ended a war and removed a murderous empire from the galaxy. You can look at things from different perspectives and say the lines of right and wrong become blurry, but there's no way you can argue the Jedi and Sith are equally good and bad. It just doesn't stack up.
 

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