Movie Star Wars: The Last Jedi. - THREAD PART 1 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS* - Cont. in Part 2

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Thrawn

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So you can't use "well Mark Hamill didn't agree" as a silver bullet when the Luke we saw matched Lucas's vision when he pitched Ep7 in 2013.
First of all, they didn't even match. Secondly, it was a rough draft, an idea. It's not something that was concrete and until we get word from Lucas himself on how Luke was actually portrayed here, it doesn't even matter.
 

El_Scorcho

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But we already know Luke would have tried everything to save him because before he was wrecked by the tragedy of Ben falling to the dark side, he was still Luke Skywalker, bastion of all that's good and right in the galaxy.

I don't need to be told that Luke tried everything. I heard the desperation in his voice when he recalled his version of the incident. I saw him save his father. I don't need to be told explicitly that the incident that saw Ben complete his turn was building for a long time.
 

Thrawn

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There have been plenty of interviews of him being less than happy about how Luke was portrayed. But they're all suddenly invalid because Mark Hamill is simply acting like a gentleman by saying thank you and not stepping on any toes (or told not to, if you're conspiracy-minded)?
 

JackOutback

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There have been plenty of interviews of him being less than happy about how Luke was portrayed. But they're all suddenly invalid because Mark Hamill is simply acting like a gentleman by saying thank you and not stepping on any toes (or told not to, if you're conspiracy-minded)?
Now who's making assumptions about Hamill's thoughts?
 

El_Scorcho

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There have been plenty of interviews of him being less than happy about how Luke was portrayed. But they're all suddenly invalid because Mark Hamill is simply acting like a gentleman by saying thank you and not stepping on any toes (or told not to, if you're conspiracy-minded)?
When was the last time Hamill said he didn't like what Johnson had done? Because that tweet is from only a week ago.

Maybe seeing the completed film gave him a better understanding of why certain choices were made.
 

Marlowe

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Wanting to kill your own nephew after reading their dreams, entirely based on a maybe, is farcical.
It was a brief, fleeting thought that crossed his mind and was something he didn't intend to carry through with. It's not horrible writing if it's to establish a moment of weakness for the character, something they regret and have to live with.
 

GG.exe

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This new film completely ruined Luke and changed his entire role in the Saga. Many people hate the film, because it was a complete rejection of ROTJ. The critics love the film, because it was the typical nihilist, anti-hero garbage that is constantly churned out.

The traditional hero, who rises above his faults, rises above his circumstances and STILL does the right thing is despised. That's apparently "simplistic." What Rian and Disney did is not brave, it's not new, it's just conforming to the nihilistic ideology of the day. It's no different than Superman killing someone, the broken Batman, Aragorn in LOTR etc.
 

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GG.exe

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I read a similar article but with a lot more context (it's the word of the day). While the drop seems precipitous, it's eight day decline is still less than all the prequels. It will still comfortably pass $1.5b, all second and third Star Wars films have grossed less than the original. The reason for the large Friday to Friday drop is the placement of the holidays. The next eight days will determine its overall success but its tracking ok.
Disney would have their own numbers and metrics that we don't see or know about. Internal expectations and projections. Even though those figures seem "fine" and the movie is still going to make a profit, it's like "we expected and projected to make $1b, but we only made $300m".

Heads will roll imo if things keep spiraling downhill for TLJ. On the surface, Disney have (and will) put a spin on things and say everything is A-OK. But this could be disastrous for them, especially if "Solo" turns out to be largely shunned by fans and slammed by critics. TLJ could well cause a re-think in Disney boardrooms on the direction previously being taken. They could even push for a change in LFL, like Dave Filoni getting KK's job.
 

GG.exe

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...-drops-69-tops-100m-losers-club/#12e25998dc05


Box Office: 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Drops 69%, Tops $100M Losers Club

The good news is that Star Wars: The Last Jedi set another box office record. The bad news is that it’s not a “good” record but a pretty “bad” record. To wit, The Last Jedi topped the holiday box office with another $68.5m. That’s a sharp drop of 68.8%, which is not good for a big movie opening just before Christmas. But it’s about on par with Eragon, which also fell 68% after a $23m launch. I keep bringing up that Star Wars knock-off, starring John Malkovich… as Snoke!, because 2006 was the last time that Christmas Eve fell on a Sunday and Christmas Day, fell on a Monday, which is absolutely skewing the holds and overall numbers heading into the heart of the holiday season.

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part II fell 72% in its second weekend, while even Alien: Covenant (which also had the buffering of Memorial Day in its second weekend) fell 70% while Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk dropped 77% over Thanksgiving in its second weekend of wide release. Now, when discussing Star Wars, you don’t necessarily want to be discussing reasons why the drop isn’t “that bad.” However, the film has already amassed a ridiculous amount of money in a relatively short time. Moreover, it’s a coin toss as to whether it will make up for some lost ground (compared to the likes of The Avengers and Jurassic World) once every kid is now off for the duration of the Christmas/New Year’s break.

So, here’s the indisputably lousy news: Rian Johnson’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi lost more money between its first and second weekends than any film ever, by a lot. Walt Disney’s The Last Jedi made $151 million less between its two weekends, which is way above the $121m gap from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part II ($169m/$42m) back in 2011 and more than Force Awakens' second ($149m) Fri-Sun weekend back in 2015. I’ve written from time to time about the $100m+ losers club, which is a still-rare group of films that opened so high and then dropped so hard that they made over $100m less on their second weekend than their first. Well, thanks to The Last Jedi, we’re going to have to open a $150m+ losers club right next door.

The $100 million+ losers club now has eight members, including The Last Jedi, Harry Potter 7.2, Batman v Superman ($166m opening weekend/$51.3m second weekend = $114.7m difference), Avengers: Age Of Ultron($191.3m/$77.2m = $114.1m), Captain America: Civil War($179.1m/$72.6m = $106.5m), Jurassic World($208.8m/$106.5m), The Avengers ($207.7m/$103m = $104m) and Iron Man 3 ($174.1m/$72.5m = $102m). After that you get the "not-quite $100m" members, such as The Twilight Saga: New Moon ($142m.84m - $42.87m = $99.97m), Star Wars: The Force Awakens - $247.9m/$149.2m = $98.7m and The Dark Knight Rises ($160m - $62m = $98m). The last two Twilight films lost $98m ($141m/$43m for Breaking Dawn part II) and $97m ($138m - $41m = $97m for Breaking Dawn I respectively).

The last four "minus-$90 million" members are The Hunger Games ($152m - $58m = $94m) and Spider-Man 3 ($151m - $58m = $93m), Suicide Squad ($133m/$41m = $91m) and Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - $155m/$64m = $91m. What you’ll notice about these films is that they all posted huge opening weekends and either went on to be among the biggest grossing movies of all time or hit a wall at a total that The Last Jedi will soon surpass relatively quickly. The Last Jedi has now earned $366m and will be just under $400m domestic by the end of tomorrow. Unless it receives essentially zero uptick from the holiday season, it should end the year with over/under $465m domestic.

A gross well-and-above the $529 million domestic total of Rogue One is absolutely assured. A gross well-and-above $600m is all-but-guaranteed. Anything above that is highly dependent on the next two weeks as it does its best to take advantage of the holiday moviegoers alongside a lot of family fare. If it merely has the same Tues-Thurs uptick as Rogue One did (plus around $30m on Christmas Day), then it’ll enter its third weekend with $460m with a likely 17-day total of over/under $500m and a possible over/under $525m total as 2018 begins. Again, there is a lot of wiggle room, but most movies playing in this part of the year do better in their second Mon-Thurs chunk than their first.

The Last Jedi has already made 1.66x its opening weekend after ten days. That compares to Eragon (1.61x), Hobbit 1 (1.77x), (Hobbit 2 (1.77x) and I Am Legend (1.77x). So, no, this isn’t a Star Trek: Nemesis (1.43x after ten days, after a 76% weekend drop) situation. If it plays anything like Eragon over the next week, which is a bit optimistic, then a $700 million+ total isn’t out of the cards. Even a Nemesis-type run at this point gets it to $605m domestic. So yeah, The Last Jedi lost this weekend, but it doesn’t have to like it. The Lucasfilm sequel still has plenty of time to reassert itself before the new year begins for real on January 12, 2018.

We can debate the reasons, be it the excess kid-friendly competition, mixed word-of-mouth among the faithful, the skewed holiday calendar and/or the lack of the new-ness. Perhaps The Last Jedi is a variation on Ted 2 or Neighbors 2, whereby a sequel is viewed as disappointing for merely doing about as well as folks expected its vastly overperforming predecessor to do. Had The Force Awakens earned $650 million domestic, a $600-$700m domestic total for The Last Jedi would seem just fine. But after a $937m finish last time out, even with the expected 30% Star Wars 1 to Star Wars 2 drop (see also: The Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones, The Last Jedi is finding itself on the defensive.

At the very least, the $250 million-ish budgeted sci-fi actioner has already earned $745m worldwide and should end tomorrow over/under $800m worldwide. It will thus end the year just over/under $1 billion worldwide. Oh, and sometime tomorrow, it will pass the domestic cume of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ($389m) to become the third-biggest domestic earner of 2017. That will be, no matter what happens next, that the top-three North American hits of the year will be Star Wars: The Force Awakens ($400m+), Wonder Woman ($413m) and Beauty and the Beast. Yes, all three of the year’s biggest movies will be female-led blockbuster fantasy movies. But, please remind us again how female-driven blockbusters are box office poison.
 

Strange Cat

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it’s because you have basic comprehension issues.
That must explain why there are others that agree with me, we must all lack comprehension skills :rolleyes:

Yeah ok keep being an absolute jerk about it as usual , rather than address the poor writing you put the onus on the actual viewer to create more context for the scene.
 

Strange Cat

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But we already know Luke would have tried everything to save him because before he was wrecked by the tragedy of Ben falling to the dark side, he was still Luke Skywalker, bastion of all that's good and right in the galaxy.

I don't need to be told that Luke tried everything. I heard the desperation in his voice when he recalled his version of the incident. I saw him save his father. I don't need to be told explicitly that the incident that saw Ben complete his turn was building for a long time.
AGAIN it’s not even shown or explained in the film, you may think it’s perfectly fine for the writer to rely on the audience to create a backstory. But the fact that they wrote this character up who bears no resemblance to the Luke from the OT, we can’t even assume if this character would had done all those things . This character choices are illogical based on the possibility that his nephew may go to the dark side, based on sensing the darkness in him.

No dialogue or scenes about any intervention which again would only take a line to add, so instead we get this Character going from being concerned to sneaking into his nephew room in he middle of the night to stand over him
And kill him.

It makes no sense for Luke to do so..none and he amount of people online and in this thread saying so shows that it’s not a compression issue, it’s clearly a backlash to how the character was written and the poor writing to explain why he chose this creepy and illogical method to intervene in Ben’s contact with Snoke.
 

Maddo11

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I love the visual bookending of Lukes story with the looking into the twin suns, i just wish they didn't make his character into a little bitch in TLJ.

This is the guy who just walked up to the two big bad guys in RoTJ completely fearlessly, a couple of years later he's scared enough to consider taking out his nephew.

Maybe if he'd tried to train Jedi prior to Ben Solo and -that- didn't turn out well, and then he's talked into trying again with Ben and becomes afraid of his potential. But there's nothing between him turning Vader, one of the baddest dudes ever, and him being scared of a kid.

The film obviously has some plot issues and fails to walk the line between comedy and drama (due to some poor editing choices too), i just wish some of the characters made more sense.
 
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