Star Wars Star Wars: The Last Jedi - THREAD PART 2 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS*

Strange Cat

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word is she was told to stay away from ep9 and jj has all the say and creative authority
Too little too late

I don’t know how JJ can turn it around when all the plot points that he set up in TFA was ignored or dismissed completely

It’s an absolute cluster****
 

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JackOutback

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Fighting bad guys isn’t giving in to the dark side. Otherwise Yoda and Obi-Wan wouldn’t have told Luke to defeat Vader. It’s giving into his emotions and being controlled by anger that leads you to the dark side not the fighting itself. Pacifism doesn’t equal the light side.
Except it’s right there on screen. When the Jedi join the war, they lose everything and plunge the galaxy into darkness. When Luke defeats Vader, he realises he is giving into anger and throws his weapon away even though a much greater villain is sitting right there. There’s a fine line between defence and offence. Luke realises fighting is not the way of the Jedi, there are other ways to resist and evil will eventually be defeated.

I know you all want Luke to be your badass action hero but he never was. He was a hero who rejected anger and violence. RJ got it better than the rest.
 

Strange Cat

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Except it’s right there on screen. When the Jedi join the war, they lose everything and plunge the galaxy into darkness. When Luke defeats Vader, he realises he is giving into anger and throws his weapon away even though a much greater villain is sitting right there. There’s a fine line between defence and offence. Luke realises fighting is not the way of the Jedi, there are other ways to resist and evil will eventually be defeated.

I know you all want Luke to be your badass action hero but he never was. He was a hero who rejected anger and violence. RJ got it better than the rest.
:rolleyes:
 

GG.exe

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Too little too late

I don’t know how JJ can turn it around when all the plot points that he set up in TFA was ignored or dismissed completely

It’s an absolute cluster****
i agree.
another rumor is ep9 could be a two part movie because it needs to end the entire skywalker saga tying in the other trilogies too so would need a lot longer than a standard 2 hr sw movie
 

mike123

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Except it’s right there on screen. When the Jedi join the war, they lose everything and plunge the galaxy into darkness. When Luke defeats Vader, he realises he is giving into anger and throws his weapon away even though a much greater villain is sitting right there. There’s a fine line between defence and offence. Luke realises fighting is not the way of the Jedi, there are other ways to resist and evil will eventually be defeated.

I know you all want Luke to be your badass action hero but he never was. He was a hero who rejected anger and violence. RJ got it better than the rest.
The Jedi lose because they’re outsmarted by Palpitine, not because they abandon pacifism. The last sentence is a nice straw man and it’s incorrect as well.
 

edgie

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Luke stopped attacking Vader because he didn't want to kill him, he wanted to save him, and Vader was disarmed.

Jedi absolutely fight to kill. Look at the ends of Episode III, or Yoda telling Luke he had to defeat Vader. Mace Windu going to execute Palpatine.

Jedi are peacekeepers, not warriors. Not pacifists either.

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GG.exe

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Interesting that Jedi KNIGHTS carry laser SWORDS all in the name of passive resistance. :rolleyes:
What did Obi-Wan say?

If you define yourself by the power to take life, the desire to dominate, to possess…then you have nothing
and
This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as random or as clumsy as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age
 

JackOutback

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Luke stopped attacking Vader because he didn't want to kill him, he wanted to save him, and Vader was disarmed.

Jedi absolutely fight to kill. Look at the ends of Episode III, or Yoda telling Luke he had to defeat Vader. Mace Windu going to execute Palpatine.

Jedi are peacekeepers, not warriors. Not pacifists either.

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That’s how you want to read it. It’s an entirely valid argument that he never wanted to fight in the first place (he says so outright) and that he throws his weapon away because he realises anger and violence will not win the war. If Vader hadn’t intervened, he was choosing death rather than fighting the Emperor.

The Jedi lost because millions of clone troopers ambushed them ffs.

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How very...literal.
 

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edgie

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That’s how you want to read it. It’s an entirely valid argument that he never wanted to fight in the first place (he says so outright) and that he throws his weapon away because he realises anger and violence will not win the war. If Vader hadn’t intervened, he was choosing death rather than fighting the Emperor.


How very...literal.
You really think Luke was doing that to win the war? That's seriously ******ed. He was watching the Emperor command the Death Star to blow up rebel ships. Luke wanted to save and redeem his father. That's it. He wanted to challenge the emperor by proving he had no control over him.

Luke didn't care about Rebels vs Imperials as much as he did saving Vader. That's why he ran away from Endoor. Why he wasn't in a fighter ship in space. Luke didn't see it as his own mission and destiny.

I agree Luke never wanted to fight in the first place, but it had nothing to do with a master strategy for rebel victory. Nothing at all.

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JackOutback

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He cared less about Leia and Han’s life than redeeming his asshole father? Nah, you’re reading the film far too literally. He wanted to save Vader but it doesn’t take precedence over everything else? There is definitely a rejection of anger and violence in his stance.
 

edgie

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It's almost like he didn't leave Leia and Han and surrender himself to Vader!

You are starting to go Janus here and just making shit up to suit your pov.

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JackOutback

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It's almost like he didn't leave Leia and Han and surrender himself to Vader!

You are starting to go Janus here and just making shit up to suit your pov.

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He didn’t leave Han and Leia because he didn’t much care about them any more. That’s a truly terrible take. He knew his destiny lay elsewhere and their best chance of success was confronting Vader and the Emperor.
 

edgie

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No. He was confronting Vader to save his father, not because he thought that was the best way to defeat the Empire.

It also doesn't mean he stopped caring about Han and Leia, but their plight was secondary to his own goals.

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GG.exe

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He didn’t leave Han and Leia because he didn’t much care about them any more. That’s a truly terrible take. He knew his destiny lay elsewhere and their best chance of success was confronting Vader and the Emperor.
You're right about this :thumbsu:
 

GG.exe

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He didn’t leave Han and Leia because he didn’t much care about them any more. That’s a truly terrible take. He knew his destiny lay elsewhere and their best chance of success was confronting Vader and the Emperor.
Even Sidious made mention of this when Luke was in his throne room. Foolish boy quote.
 

JackOutback

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Not sure why you hate TLJ’s take on Luke. Apparently he was a bit of an asshole who didn’t care about Leia, Han and the Rebels. He was happy to watch Rebels die, why would he give a shit about the rest of the galaxy?
 

GG.exe

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Not sure why you hate TLJ’s take on Luke. Apparently he was a bit of an asshole who didn’t care about Leia, Han and the Rebels. He was happy to watch Rebels die, why would he give a shit about the rest of the galaxy?
Because it's a bad movie, and a worse star wars movie. Not because it was trying to suggest an unusual take on things. But pure execution. Writing. Story. As a sequel to TFA how it undid or neglected a lot, subverting for subversion sake. A lot of wasteful scenes. Etc etc that have been mentioned countless times.

I would have been open to Luke being disconsolate....but a number of things presented about that just made a farce of it all.

Basically, TLJ was farcical. Due to the manner of the writing/story, and details within.
 

SM

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Can't it be both? He leaves the Rebels camp because he's endangering them with his presence - therefore cares about them and the success of their mission.

He also tells Leia that he needs to confront Vader, he can't just run away - therefore his primary mission is saving Vader.
 

JackOutback

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Can't it be both? He leaves the Rebels camp because he's endangering them with his presence - therefore cares about them and the success of their mission.

He also tells Leia that he needs to confront Vader, he can't just run away - therefore his primary mission is saving Vader.
Of course he was also trying to save his father.
 
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