Star Wars Star Wars: The Last Jedi - THREAD PART 2 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS*

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JackOutback

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I'm suggesting that was his primary aim, which you didn't seem to agree with.
Was it his primary aim? Crucial to defeating the Empire? Just a ploy? Probably the first. But none of it goes against the analysis of Luke forgoing violence and choosing a higher path, which was the initial discussion point.
 

SM

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Was it his primary aim? Crucial to defeating the Empire? Just a ploy? Probably the first. But none of it goes against the analysis of Luke forgoing violence and choosing a higher path, which was the initial discussion point.
Who said it was crucial to defeating the Empire? It was Luke's primary aim.
 

GG.exe

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Thread starter #3,030
The only way he could help his friends and rebels, was by confronting Vader/Emperor. Not only was it his destiny, it was also an important strategy. Luke's force powers would be best served confronting the other two force users (sidious/vader), trying to win that way, because regular non-force-users were not going to beat them out directly. Luke defeating one or the other, or Luke turning Vader back from the dark, would increase the odds of the rebels winning their part of the battle, or at the very least, buy them more time.

It was his destiny....because it is so that Anakin would balance the force, and he did that by being turned back....so Luke's destiny was being the catalyst for that in order to enable Anakin to fulfill that.

It's also like a real war. While there are ground troops in the front line, while that's going on there's also a sea invasion taking place elsewhere so as to get more troops/armor in, to get rid of a key enemy bridge/etc...while that's going on, there's an aerial attack elsewhere to push back the enemy troops on their way to help stock up numbers...while that's going on there might be a small SEAL unit infiltrating a secret base in order to retrieve key information.

Many missions and battles going on that might all be coordinated together, or that is like a sequence of events where one success can help the success of the others.
 

edgie

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Not sure why you hate TLJ’s take on Luke. Apparently he was a bit of an asshole who didn’t care about Leia, Han and the Rebels. He was happy to watch Rebels die, why would he give a shit about the rest of the galaxy?
Mate.

I've never said I hate Luke in TLJ.

I hate the suddenness of the Kylo thing, and I hate his death. I don't hate the general vibe of him.

You have me for someone else.

Sent from mTalk
 

JackOutback

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The only way he could help his friends and rebels, was by confronting Vader/Emperor. Not only was it his destiny, it was also an important strategy. Luke's force powers would be best served confronting the other two force users (sidious/vader), trying to win that way, because regular non-force-users were not going to beat them out directly. Luke defeating one or the other, or Luke turning Vader back from the dark, would increase the odds of the rebels winning their part of the battle, or at the very least, buy them more time.

It was his destiny....because it is so that Anakin would balance the force, and he did that by being turned back....so Luke's destiny was being the catalyst for that in order to enable Anakin to fulfill that.

It's also like a real war. While there are ground troops in the front line, while that's going on there's also a sea invasion taking place elsewhere so as to get more troops/armor in, to get rid of a key enemy bridge/etc...while that's going on, there's an aerial attack elsewhere to push back the enemy troops on their way to help stock up numbers...while that's going on there might be a small SEAL unit infiltrating a secret base in order to retrieve key information.

Many missions and battles going on that might all be coordinated together, or that is like a sequence of events where one success can help the success of the others.
Bang. Luke’s destiny was to confront Vader and the Emperor and defeat them to save the galaxy. He does so by forgoing violence and not succumbing to the dark side. It’s not inconsistent with his portrayal in TLJ.
 

GG.exe

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Youre both right here.
Luke does start caving in, tapping in to the dark side, it's inherent in him just like it's inherent in Anakin and Kylo (and Rey). But he realizes the way to beat Sidious is by sacrificing himself, passive aggressive, knowing it would spur the light in Vader to help him...thus succeeds in sucking the good out of Vader, who destroys the emperor lest he destroy his own son.

This is evident when Luke is on the ground pleading for Vader to help him while Sidious is torching him with force lightning.

This is also evident in that video I posted above, where when Luke enters, he tells Sidious that he AND himself will die, if that's what it takes to ensure the rebels succeed.
 

JackOutback

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Youre both right here.
Luke does start caving in, tapping in to the dark side, it's inherent in him just like it's inherent in Anakin and Kylo (and Rey). But he realizes the way to beat Sidious is by sacrificing himself, passive aggressive, knowing it would spur the light in Vader to help him...thus succeeds in sucking the good out of Vader, who destroys the emperor lest he destroy his own son.

This is evident when Luke is on the ground pleading for Vader to help him while Sidious is torching him with force lightning.

This is also evident in that video I posted above, where when Luke enters, he tells Sidious that he AND himself will die, if that's what it takes to ensure the rebels succeed.
Stop calling him Sidious, he’s the Emperor :p
 

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glenferry23

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Let’s not talk up this whole rejection of violence thing too much. Whilst noble in theory, it came with significant consequences.

Luke explained his decision to isolate himself on the island. He cut himself off from the force. He went there to die. It wasn’t a grand gesture like it’s being talked up here.

Whilst he sat on the bench, billions across the galaxy were murdered by TFO. And by the time he checked back in, about a dozen or so of the Rebels were left. Out of the 30+ ships that tried to escape.
 

GG.exe

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Thread starter #3,041
Let’s not talk up this whole rejection of violence thing too much. Whilst noble in theory, it came with significant consequences.

Luke explained his decision to isolate himself on the island. He cut himself off from the force. He went there to die. It wasn’t a grand gesture like it’s being talked up here.

Whilst he sat on the bench, billions across the galaxy were murdered by TFO. And by the time he checked back in, about a dozen or so of the Rebels were left. Out of the 30+ ships that tried to escape.
Very good point.
RJ violated Luke.
 

GG.exe

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Thread starter #3,043
That particular aspect was JJ. Rian could have had Rey inspire him to come back though.
I'm pretty sure JJ just left it open what the story is behind Luke's missing.
In TFA he left a map to good friend Lor San Tekka, of where he could be found.
And the race was on to find him first -- FO or Rebels.
The last shot of Luke in TFA was also ominous Luke ... standing tall, proud, like a real Jedi Warrior ready for action, like he was away recharging his batteries.

RJ spun that around and made Luke a decrepit suicidal old man.

Keep in mind, end of TFA Luke is wearing regal Jedi clothes...like he's proud to be a Jedi, a master.

So why would Luke be dressed like that if he was instead to be decrepit Luke? If JJ intended that, he would've had Luke dressed strangely that draws that possibility in. Instead, it makes no sense for him to be dressed like that in RJ's decision to spin.
 

SM

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I'm pretty sure JJ just left it open what the story is behind Luke's missing.
In TFA he left a map to good friend Lor San Tekka, of where he could be found.
And the race was on to find him first -- FO or Rebels.
The last shot of Luke in TFA was also ominous Luke ... standing tall, proud, like a real Jedi Warrior ready for action, like he was away recharging his batteries.

RJ spun that around and made Luke a decrepit suicidal old man.

Keep in mind, end of TFA Luke is wearing regal Jedi clothes...like he's proud to be a Jedi, a master.

So why would Luke be dressed like that if he was instead to be decrepit Luke? If JJ intended that, he would've had Luke dressed strangely that draws that possibility in. Instead, it makes no sense for him to be dressed like that in RJ's decision to spin.
Yeah but Luke was missing while Hosnian Prime was destroyed so JJ did have it set up that he was on an island just letting this stuff happen.
 

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Yeah but Luke was missing while Hosnian Prime was destroyed so JJ did have it set up that he was on an island just letting this stuff happen.
Good point....and....think about it.....Luke should've felt a great disturbance of the force having multiple planets with billions of people on them each, die. There could've been a good reason for Luke still....the decrepit one still isnt (even if closing himself off from the force helps).
 

JackOutback

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Let’s not talk up this whole rejection of violence thing too much. Whilst noble in theory, it came with significant consequences.

Luke explained his decision to isolate himself on the island. He cut himself off from the force. He went there to die. It wasn’t a grand gesture like it’s being talked up here.

Whilst he sat on the bench, billions across the galaxy were murdered by TFO. And by the time he checked back in, about a dozen or so of the Rebels were left. Out of the 30+ ships that tried to escape.
It’s not the job of the Jedi to dictate terms on a galactic scale. That’s what got the Order into trouble in the first place. Even forgetting that he’s just one Jedi.
 

glenferry23

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It’s not the job of the Jedi to dictate terms on a galactic scale. That’s what got the Order into trouble in the first place. Even forgetting that he’s just one Jedi.
I never suggested it was. Even though, it’s quite a cop out to just say it wasn’t his job to begin with.

Sure, he cannot be blamed for the acts of others. But as the saying goes, every action (or inaction) has a reaction.

In this case, Luke’s inaction had dire consequences. He was very much in a position of influence, to perhaps help stop/defeat/delay/slowdown Snoke and TFO.

He chose not to. So let’s not pretend it’s a clean and beautiful act of pacifism, I doubt that would have consoled the billions who were murdered.
 

Summer Nights

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It seems like you guys have been discussing/arguing for a year or more. I find it unbelievable to come back for a peek after all this time and see the same old argument on infinite repeat.

How was your Christmas anyway? Best wishes for the year ahead.
 
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