Star Wars Star Wars: The Last Jedi - THREAD PART 2 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS*

[Simon_Nesbit]

1. I agree wholeheartedly with JackOutback that Abrams didnt "have to" course correct and could've taken the steps forward where RJ had left it. Any good writer (even bad ones) can think of tons of ideas of where to take the story. If only RJ had the balls to keep Luke alive + make Rey join Kylo in the let the past die speech.

2. I don't get the issue with Rey Nobody and Broom Boy. Force powers aren't and were never isolated to bloodlines. Force sensitives have existed for thousands of years and across hundreds of species. Jedi were all various types of creatures too as we saw in the PT.

The issue for mine is Order 66. (Entwined with a concept that the "Force" has a maximum 'value' which is shared amongst all beings, and kind of incorporating Midi-Chlorians which I didn't have as much an issue with as most).

All Jedi, younglings and force-sensitive people were captured and killed. The empire proceeded to test all children, stealing the force sensitive (who were never seen again).

Prior to Order 66, almost anyone could be a Jedi (thousands sharing the force), as there had been thousands of generations of Jedi's. Many different races, planets, and families showing and developing their skills in the force (and indoctrination into the Jedi cult).

After Order 66, only a few remained - and those that did actively hid their powers to avoid detection. With so few alternatives, those remaining saw their powers increase exponentially - to the point that their bloodlines became the elite.

(Think similarly of the swordplay - Prequel's with thousands of Jedi was incredibly fast and almost a dance (seriously, watch professional fencing for comparison), but after Order 66, the OT Vader/Luke fights were slow and clumsy, even in the ST with Rey/Kylo it was still physical "Broadsword" styles rather than technique.

 

[Exe Gesis]

The issue for mine is Order 66. (Entwined with a concept that the "Force" has a maximum 'value' which is shared amongst all beings, and kind of incorporating Midi-Chlorians which I didn't have as much an issue with as most).

All Jedi, younglings and force-sensitive people were captured and killed. The empire proceeded to test all children, stealing the force sensitive (who were never seen again).

Prior to Order 66, almost anyone could be a Jedi (thousands sharing the force), as there had been thousands of generations of Jedi's. Many different races, planets, and families showing and developing their skills in the force (and indoctrination into the Jedi cult).

After Order 66, only a few remained - and those that did actively hid their powers to avoid detection. With so few alternatives, those remaining saw their powers increase exponentially - to the point that their bloodlines became the elite.

(Think similarly of the swordplay - Prequel's with thousands of Jedi was incredibly fast and almost a dance (seriously, watch professional fencing for comparison), but after Order 66, the OT Vader/Luke fights were slow and clumsy, even in the ST with Rey/Kylo it was still physical "Broadsword" styles rather than technique.

Cheers for the thorough breakdown of why

 

[Ghost Patrol]

She was also hinted as being a clone in TLJ cave sequence. And theorized too as another Anakin (creation of the force).

The cave sequence with multiple Reys? Echo through time, I believe it relates directly to Ezra and the world between worlds

A World Between Worlds

"A World Between Worlds" is the thirteenth episode of the fourth season of the animated television series Star Wars Rebels. The episode premiered on February 26, 2018. Now inside the Jedi Temple portal, Ezra finds himself in a place like no other. During his journey through the portal of the...

starwars.fandom.com

 

[edgie]

Double handed reverse grip.

Stupid choreography.

 

[SM]

The issue for mine is Order 66. (Entwined with a concept that the "Force" has a maximum 'value' which is shared amongst all beings, and kind of incorporating Midi-Chlorians which I didn't have as much an issue with as most).

All Jedi, younglings and force-sensitive people were captured and killed. The empire proceeded to test all children, stealing the force sensitive (who were never seen again).

Prior to Order 66, almost anyone could be a Jedi (thousands sharing the force), as there had been thousands of generations of Jedi's. Many different races, planets, and families showing and developing their skills in the force (and indoctrination into the Jedi cult).

After Order 66, only a few remained - and those that did actively hid their powers to avoid detection. With so few alternatives, those remaining saw their powers increase exponentially - to the point that their bloodlines became the elite.

(Think similarly of the swordplay - Prequel's with thousands of Jedi was incredibly fast and almost a dance (seriously, watch professional fencing for comparison), but after Order 66, the OT Vader/Luke fights were slow and clumsy, even in the ST with Rey/Kylo it was still physical "Broadsword" styles rather than technique.

Except that's just not how it is meant to work. It's not a finite resource that becomes stronger when there's less people trained in the Force. It's essentially a mutation that appears randomly in individuals of all species.

 

[Exe Gesis]

JackOutback Just finished watching Knives Out (2019) by Rian Johnson.

I will write a review on IMDB, but what I have to say is -- this movie is further evidence of one of two things -- either 1) there is no way that someone who wrote/directed Knives Out would be the writer of The Last Jedi...or...2) He wrote the TLJ, but was asked to s**t on SW as much as possible by KK.

 

[JackOutback]

JackOutback Just finished watching Knives Out (2019) by Rian Johnson.

I will write a review on IMDB, but what I have to say is -- this movie is further evidence of one of two things -- either 1) there is no way that someone who wrote/directed Knives Out would be the writer of The Last Jedi...or...2) He wrote the TLJ, but was asked to s**t on SW as much as possible by KK.

TLJ doesn’t s**t on Star Wars, it just asks a little more of its audience. Unfortunately, the audience wasn’t ready.

 

[Exe Gesis]

TLJ doesn’t s**t on Star Wars, it just asks a little more of its audience. Unfortunately, the audience wasn’t ready.

i explain how it does in my KO review.

I dont want to attention seek, but I'll post it here for you.... it's the part about how a writer treats the characters he is writing with care, compassion, and not malevolence -- regardless the type of character, be they villain or hero, etc....

Spoiler: Non-Spoilery Review of Knives Out

Wow, sir.

I will preface a review of this movie by suggesting that one of three things is true -- 1) that a person who wrote/directed Knives Out (and Brick, Brothers Bloom, and Looper) could not have written The Last Jedi....or....2) That they indeed write it, but were tasked with shitting on Star Wars (culprit KK)....or....likely, they were handed a story for TLJ (written by KK) and asked to tweak it, make it work, persuaded to add this or that scene in, etc. All of Rian Johnson's work has a serious tone to it. Whereas TLJ is bratty, snarky, malevolent at heart to the prospective fanbase. I cannot believe a person with Rian's intellect and heart as an artist would treat characters he is writing with disdain and malevolence as TLJ does, when every other film he has done he shows great care and compassion for all his characters, true to their natures.

The Last Jedi is such a juvenile piece of writing, no consummate writer like Rian Johnson, who studied Film and Literature at University etc, could have written some of the lines, some of the scenes, structured the film the way it was structured etc, unless they were pressured to do so, or was handed such juvenile story treatment and asked to flesh it out.

That said, on to Knives Out...

Knives Out is a superb film. It is robust in every facet. Directing, editing, acting, cinematography, and further, things like plot twists, and no plot holes, etc.

As the story unfolds, the whodunnit mystery of it is not there, we are told almost immediately how the victim passed, and a culprit presented. It's one of those murder mystery stories where the real hook and twist is lurking beneath the evident, behind the appearances.

The beauty of this story and script is how as it unfolds like this, that indeed there are more layers and layers, just when you're wondering where this tale is going. Things are not what they appear to be to the characters in the story, or to us the viewers. As the Daniel Craig's PI character says, "A donut within a donut." Missing pieces within the overall missing piece of the truth that everyone is trying to find out.

The cast is superb. As with all murder mysteries, there's always an array of character types, the nice person, the snivelling brat, the unhinged, the threatening, the stupid and harmless, etc.

Go see this movie! It's not like it's the greatest movie of all time, or the best of 2019, but for what it is, and its genre, it's a rewarding experience. Entertaining and smart, complex yet simple, charming and blunt.

GG Rating: 6/10

(based on a yes/no for each of the ten categories below)

cinematography - story/synopsis - editing - acting - script - directing - music/sound - fx - originality - je ne sais quoi

 

[Freshwater]

I should have added, the number on thing that should have been retained was the legend of Luke Skywalker inspiring the people to rise up. It was the key character development of TLJ and it was excellent. It was set up to hang the whole trilogy on Skywalker. After retreating because he blamed his arrogance or hubris caused by his own legendary status, he came to accept his own flaws and failings and stepped up to become exactly the legend he had been afraid of for so long.

It looked like JJ only vaguely understood this. The title hinted at it, Poe talks about hope, the final battle involves people and not an army. But instead of Luke inspiring this uprising, Lando just goes on a fly-around and everyone joins up

Really enjoyed reading your take here. You have put into words what I had been thinking. Luke Skywalker and of course Leia, and maybe Annikin should have been the inspiration behind everything in this conclusion. It is the Skywalker saga, it was called the Rise of Skywalker but was about a Palpatine taking the name of Skywalker?? I dreamed of Luke knighting Rey, King Arthur style, with his green lightsabre once she’d EARNED both the knighthood (Jedi status) and the name, because she was a nobody. Would’ve been a great scene. Not Solo helping to save Ben, but Luke or Annikin.
Luke overcoming his and all of the Jedi’s hubris and arrogance and learning to live out his true legendary status for himself and the Jedi order is another feather in his cap. Restores the character and status of the real Jedi and is a satisfying finish?

 

[edgie]

It's interesting that Janus is hot on for TLJ yet at the same time super critical of KK's supposed female empowerment agenda, which is never stronger than it is in TLJ.

 

[Exe Gesis]

 

[edgie]

Still well worth viewing, it’s Star Wars after all. But I do understand the sentiment, a few of my friends have also said similar things. After their disappointment with TLJ, they’d probably just wait to download or stream TROS later on.

I'm led to believe you are lying. All I've been told is TROS's box office is 100% on itself and nothing to do with the other movies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gasometer]

JackOutback Just finished watching Knives Out (2019) by Rian Johnson.

I will write a review on IMDB, but what I have to say is -- this movie is further evidence of one of two things -- either 1) there is no way that someone who wrote/directed Knives Out would be the writer of The Last Jedi...or...2) He wrote the TLJ, but was asked to s**t on SW as much as possible by KK.

Thought the same when I saw Knives in November. Bemusing.

 

[glenferry23]

I'm led to believe you are lying. All I've been told is TROS's box office is 100% on itself and nothing to do with the other movies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whatever suits the narrative at the time I’m guessing.

 

[Mootsy]

Luke hints at Rey being a palpatine In TLJ, and I believe this is why Snoke ended so early, anyway, Luke says “I’ve only seen such raw strength once before(Ben solo), it didn’t scare me then, but it does now”.

 

[SM]

Luke hints at Rey being a palpatine In TLJ, and I believe this is why Snoke ended so early, anyway, Luke says “I’ve only seen such raw strength once before(Ben solo), it didn’t scare me then, but it does now”.

Where in that is a hint she's a Palpatine?

 

[glenferry23]

That line seemed to reflect Luke’s regret/failure at acting earlier on the warning signs with Ben. And not wanting to repeat mistakes.

There’s nothing there really to suggest she’s a Palpatine.

 

[atlas1]

Ah yes, Ben Palpatine

 

[Exe Gesis]

Now TLJ has been fixed....

 

[edgie]

 

[Bomberboyokay]

'Star Wars' Actor & Dialect Coach Andrew Jack Dies from Coronavirus

Andrew Jack was 76 at the time of his death. RIP

www.tmz.com

 

[atlas1]

'Star Wars' Actor & Dialect Coach Andrew Jack Dies from Coronavirus

Andrew Jack was 76 at the time of his death. RIP

www.tmz.com

 

[Bomberboyokay]

View attachment 850791

He held binoculars on the salt planet

 

[Coolangatta]

1. I agree wholeheartedly with JackOutback that Abrams didnt "have to" course correct and could've taken the steps forward where RJ had left it. Any good writer (even bad ones) can think of tons of ideas of where to take the story. If only RJ had the balls to keep Luke alive + make Rey join Kylo in the let the past die speech.

2. I don't get the issue with Rey Nobody and Broom Boy. Force powers aren't and were never isolated to bloodlines. Force sensitives have existed for thousands of years and across hundreds of species. Jedi were all various types of creatures too as we saw in the PT.

Agreed on both points. Ep IX without a course correction, new writer/s and a new director with Luke + Rey and Kylo joining forces to create something new would've been interesting direction to go.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Agreed on both points. Ep IX without a course correction, new writer/s and a new director with Luke + Rey and Kylo joining forces to create something new would've been interesting direction to go.

That would've made an interesting development in the trilogy. Snoke dead, whom Luke feared or vice versa, but now Rey and Kylo have joined together in the dark side. Luke having to come off his island to fight them both. Or if Rey is a Palpatine, and Luke knows this, but Kylo doesn't, it could've set up quite a pickle there for all three people.