State of Aust Cricket: Clarke, Inverarity, new selections, optimism...

dajesmac

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#26
I'm delighted with the change so far, like I'm sure mostly everyone else is. However it is early days. In particular, like others have said, I like the way Inverarity tells it the way it is, old blokes tend to be that way. Cooincidentally, it's his 68th birthday today.

One thing I'm not as hyped up about however is our bowling attack being set. Cummins is remarkably unproven, he had one good spell ffs. While I know he is very talented and should definitely be persisted with, comments like him and Pattinson leading our attack for the next decade are ridiculously premature. Starc is someone I didn't originally rate, but has impressed me. He's improved alot this summer, and I'm looking forward to seeing just how far that goes. Pattinson really is a gem. Hopefully we don't screw this one up but he's sensational, and relatively consistent, for someone his age.
 

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frankrizzo

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#27
Quick bowling looks great and with depth right now, batting well honestly i haven't seen anything this summer that makes me think we can out bat england in england.

We piled it on against some low standard stuff from the Indians in Sydney and adelaide but our old bats are not going to win us back the ashes in 2013.

Our quick's should make us competitive but i can still see us collapsing often enough against the moving ball to cost us the ashes.
 

Adelaide Hawk

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#28
The strength of Australian cricket has always been the Sheffield Shield. It ensured the steady stream of quality young players through the system, as well as a smaller step up to Test cricket than any other local competition in the world. This is where our Test players should be chosen from, not some farcical truncated form of the game.

It worries me that the Sheffield Shield is being neglected in favour of money raising activities like Big Bash, my goodness what a load of crap that competition is.

It also worries me that very young players are now competing in T20 state championships. I just don't think young batsman are receiving the correct grooming into 1st class cricket these days, and I'm very worried about the standard of batting, not now, but in 5-10 years from now.
 

maelcoluim

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#29
I get the feeling come 2013 Ponting and Hussey will still be in our top five batsmen. There seems to be a big gulf still between the top performers in the shield and the test arena which is concerning on the batting front. Our fast bowling battery looks excellent, though obviously a quality spinner would be nice.

The new selectors have done a good job thus far imo, have balanced experience and new talent very well. Not too many superb batters to pick from atm unfortunately.
 

KiwiRoo

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#30
And they are?

As I see it, if Ponting and Hussey were to say their farewells now, the only two locks for a position in the batting line up are Clarke and Watson.

Warner looks very promising but still has much to prove, Cowan looks capable of filling a role, Khawaja (who I think has a real touch of class) is a work in progress, Marsh.................well, we'll see.

Warner (hopefully) and Khawaja aside, I see no young batsman who have future test player stamped all over them. What I do see are a number of seasoned first class players (Cowan, Marsh, Forrest) whose career numbers are fairly mediocre but have shown good recent form and on the back of that the selectors seem willing to give them a go.

Looking around Australian first class ranks at the moment, there does not appear to be a future Ponting out there. That's ok because he was a once in a geneeration player. More concerningly however is there does not appear to be a Hussey, Katich, Martyn, Lehmann or even a Love, Hodge or a Law.

So, I'll reserve my optimisim for the time being. Our fast bowling stocks look great, I'll give you that. Our batting on the other hand looks decidedly wobbly IMHO.

Aussie have never really struggled for quality batsmen. Someone will come through, when your Pontings & Husseys retire.
Khwaja looks good to me, but he should get his next crack batting 5 or 6 until he gets established. No3 is a tough gig.
Cowan also looks ok to me too. Old fashioned but effective
I wouldnt write off Sean Marsh either..hes got a lot of talent
Clarke & Watson will be round for a while too..pretty handy batsmen to build a line up round.
 
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#31
Aussie have never really struggled for quality batsmen. Someone will come through, when your Pontings & Husseys retire.
Khwaja looks good to me, but he should get his next crack batting 5 or 6 until he gets established. No3 is a tough gig.
Cowan also looks ok to me too. Old fashioned but effective
I wouldnt write off Sean Marsh either..hes got a lot of talent
Clarke & Watson will be round for a while too..pretty handy batsmen to build a line up round.
Never? You don't remember the 80's?

However, I agree, someone will come through, its just a question of how many and how good those that come through are.

Cowan regularly gets mentioned in terms of 'being a good prospect' as though he's some kid whose been plucked out of nowhere by the selectors. Some context is required. Cowan will turn 30 in the first half of this year. He made his first class debut back in 2003. Its been a solid, arguably laborious, apprenticeship and until a sudden and rich vein of form this year has never really been in the test mix until this summer. I wish him all the best in his test career but, quite honestly, based on his first class career to date my expectations are relatively modest. If he finishes with a test average much above 40 I'll be a little surprised. I should also point out I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong.

Cowan is the same age as Englishman, Ian Bell. Bell has played 70+ tests, has 5,000+ test runs at an average of almost 48. He's someone the Australian public hasn't particularly rated, but is now a seasoned test player who's performed at the highest level.

My point is, Clarke aside*, we don't have any other established high class test batsmen (averaging 45 or more) who you can say with any degree of certainty are likely to be around for another five years or more.

South Africa has Smith, Amla and DeVilliers in that category.
England has Cook, Bell, Pietersen and Trott.

So, IMHO, speculation about Australia's future batting prowess is largely based on a wing and a prayer at present. We need to hope like hell that Lynn, Mattinson and the like come through.

*While Watson has been a success in the opener's role his career test batting average is 38 which, when you consider his contribution with the ball is fine. However you're just not going to dominate world cricket with a team full of blokes averaging in the high 30's/low 40's. Watson hasn't yet perofrmed to the same level the Englishmen and South Africans mentioned above have.
 

sherb

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#32
The strength of Australian cricket has always been the Sheffield Shield. It ensured the steady stream of quality young players through the system, as well as a smaller step up to Test cricket than any other local competition in the world. This is where our Test players should be chosen from, not some farcical truncated form of the game.

It worries me that the Sheffield Shield is being neglected in favour of money raising activities like Big Bash, my goodness what a load of crap that competition is.

It also worries me that very young players are now competing in T20 state championships. I just don't think young batsman are receiving the correct grooming into 1st class cricket these days, and I'm very worried about the standard of batting, not now, but in 5-10 years from now.
Indeed.

It's all well and good to be here discussing how the Test side is looking, but if you want to have a successful Test side, you need a healthy Sheffield Shield. And you need the Shield being played in conjunction with tests.

Already we have seen reports of the clowns at CA discussing putting the SS back as far as August. God knows when they would consider scheduling Test cricket if they go ahead with this hare-brain idea.

It just goes to show that they are stupid enough to be completely besotted by the money of the 20/20 rubbish. And that runs the real risk of every other form of the game having to make way for it.

CA had a post up on Facebook this morning (now deleted), saying that (in relation to the weather) they intend to run tonight's 20/20 game if at all possible - even if they had to play a five over a side game. That says it all really...........
 

KiwiRoo

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#33
Never? You don't remember the 80's?

However, I agree, someone will come through, its just a question of how many and how good those that come through are.

Cowan regularly gets mentioned in terms of 'being a good prospect' as though he's some kid whose been plucked out of nowhere by the selectors. Some context is required. Cowan will turn 30 in the first half of this year. He made his first class debut back in 2003. Its been a solid, arguably laborious, apprenticeship and until a sudden and rich vein of form this year has never really been in the test mix until this summer. I wish him all the best in his test career but, quite honestly, based on his first class career to date my expectations are relatively modest. If he finishes with a test average much above 40 I'll be a little surprised. I should also point out I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong.

Cowan is the same age as Englishman, Ian Bell. Bell has played 70+ tests, has 5,000+ test runs at an average of almost 48. He's someone the Australian public hasn't particularly rated, but is now a seasoned test player who's performed at the highest level.

My point is, Clarke aside*, we don't have any other established high class test batsmen (averaging 45 or more) who you can say with any degree of certainty are likely to be around for another five years or more.

South Africa has Smith, Amla and DeVilliers in that category.
England has Cook, Bell, Pietersen and Trott.

So, IMHO, speculation about Australia's future batting prowess is largely based on a wing and a prayer at present. We need to hope like hell that Lynn, Mattinson and the like come through.

*While Watson has been a success in the opener's role his career test batting average is 38 which, when you consider his contribution with the ball is fine. However you're just not going to dominate world cricket with a team full of blokes averaging in the high 30's/low 40's. Watson hasn't yet perofrmed to the same level the Englishmen and South Africans mentioned above have.
Im a Kiwi... I remember the 80's very fondly !

You raise some good points.
I think Watson has proven that he can average high 40's. ..especially if he gets fit and gets a bit more judicious with his shot selection.
Warner has lots of ability, but maybe will be a bit hit & miss.
Cowan may be just a journeyman..time will tell.Dont think you can raise the age factor though. Hussey & Hayman scored stacks of runs after being selected or recalled in their late 20's. He may just have sorted his game out where he becomes very consistent...But personally i think you're right in that he may only average late 30's.

Someone will come out of the first class scene and do well at test level..I just dont know who yet !
 
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#34
Im a Kiwi... I remember the 80's very fondly !

You raise some good points.
I think Watson has proven that he can average high 40's. ..especially if he gets fit and gets a bit more judicious with his shot selection.
Warner has lots of ability, but maybe will be a bit hit & miss.
Cowan may be just a journeyman..time will tell.Dont think you can raise the age factor though. Hussey & Hayman scored stacks of runs after being selected or recalled in their late 20's. He may just have sorted his game out where he becomes very consistent...But personally i think you're right in that he may only average late 30's.

Someone will come out of the first class scene and do well at test level..I just dont know who yet !
Don't forget Hussey and Hayden had very impressive first class records (averaging over 50) built up over many years when they were successfully eased into the test team. They were fairly low risk propositions as test players.

Just looking at Watson's batting record, he's averaged 43 as an opener which I'm sure we'd happily accept going forward. I've always thought he's far more suited to a role towards the top of the order as he's particularly adept against pace. He looks uncertain as to what his role is down the order. Different people have different views on that one, but I'd retain him as either an opener or at first drop.

More interestingly, Watson averaged 41 under Ponting as captain and only 24 (so far) under Clarke, admittedly from only 6 tests so perhaps that's not yet statistically significant. If it turns out to be a trend however, then I think it points to the need to let Watson focus primarily on being a batsman (we'll need him) and let him think of himself as an occasional change bowler, rather than a key part of the attack.
 

KiwiRoo

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#35
Dont disagree that hussey & hayden are a class above Cowan !
The interesting thing was that there was probably close to 10 non test batsmen in first class cricket averaging close to 50 back when Hussey & Hayden debuted .
Its interesting how the averages have dropped in the last couple of years. Are the tracks a bit juicier ?. is the standard of bowling higher ? standard of batting lower ? probably a combination of the 3.
maybe we'll go through a period in cricket where 45 is the standard test average for a class batsmen ? it seems like the groundmen are being advised to prepare result pitches, rather than the roads of the last 15-20 years

Watsons average has dropped recently because he's lost the balance between being attacking & being stupid. He should be able to regain it with a bit more perspective. Got a large amount of talent
 

frankrizzo

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#36
I think Watson has proven that he can average high 40's
If the bowling is pedestrian and the pitches have no movement i would agree, watson can be devastating on true bouncy pitches.

He has looked pretty ordinary when the ball moves even a little early on, anybody who watches Watson bat and thinks he is going to get on top of england in england is kidding themselves.

Honestly though a bloke with 2 tons and 16 50's is going to struggle to average high 40's as an opener.
 

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