Roast State of the game

[ColinMochrie]

Okay I need to have a little rant.

The umpiring has reached breaking point for me and this sport. I dont even blame the umpires themselves.

The game has become impossible to correctly officiate. You cant even call it rules anymore but rather interpretations. Sport should be renamed to "aussie interpretation"!

There are so many rules and non rules now that no one (players, fans and individual umpires) know what is going on. Every contest you could pull out a free kick, every time a whistle goes everyone looks up not knowing what the umpire has pulled out of his bag of tricks.

Then you add in 3 different umpires with different interpretations, then factor in the time of the game and the position of the ball, then factor in what is the "rule of the week" that the afl has decided to force on the game.

This isnt just collingwood. This is the sport. When I watch any other sport I know what is going on. LBW is LBW. They dont decide halfway through a match that lbw now doesnt need to be a rule or is interpreted different. Offside is offside. An illegal tackle is an illegal tackle. Yes mistakes happen but I dont see umpiring such a focus point in other codes.

I cant take the sport seriously anymore. I still watch it but how can I passionate about a sport that is not consistent in rules?

During the collingwood game a commentry quote summed it all up "was he pushed in the back or attacking the legs". Was he holding the ball? Did he legally dispose of the ball? Head high contact? Was it deliberate? Was he holding the man?

Thats one bloody contest. No wonder the umpires cant umpire the game.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Okay I need to have a little rant.

The umpiring has reached breaking point for me and this sport. I dont even blame the umpires themselves.

The game has become impossible to correctly officiate. You cant even call it rules anymore but rather interpretations. Sport should be renamed to "aussie interpretation"!

There are so many rules and non rules now that no one (players, fans and individual umpires) know what is going on. Every contest you could pull out a free kick, every time a whistle goes everyone looks up not knowing what the umpire has pulled out of his bag of tricks.

Then you add in 3 different umpires with different interpretations, then factor in the time of the game and the position of the ball, then factor in what is the "rule of the week" that the afl has decided to force on the game.

This isnt just collingwood. This is the sport. When I watch any other sport I know what is going on. LBW is LBW. They dont decide halfway through a match that lbw now doesnt need to be a rule or is interpreted different. Offside is offside. An illegal tackle is an illegal tackle. Yes mistakes happen but I dont see umpiring such a focus point in other codes.

I cant take the sport seriously anymore. I still watch it but how can I passionate about a sport that is not consistent in rules?

During the collingwood game a commentry quote summed it all up "was he pushed in the back or attacking the legs". Was he holding the ball? Did he legally dispose of the ball? Head high contact? Was it deliberate? Was he holding the man?

Thats one bloody contest. No wonder the umpires cant umpire the game.

The newest one that shits me is in the back. A player will feel pressure from behind and fling themselves forward, essentially dragging the tackler down with them. That is not what the rule was brought in for, but it illustrates the problems we have with such a 360 free for all sport.
With professionalism, players are gonna exploit any rule they can.
Still, games this year have been pretty awesome.

 

[ColinMochrie]

The newest one that shits me is in the back. A player will feel pressure from behind and fling themselves forward, essentially dragging the tackler down with them. That is not what the rule was brought in for, but it illustrates the problems we have with such a 360 free for all sport.
With professionalism, players are gonna exploit any rule they can.
Still, games this year have been pretty awesome.

Yes players will exploit but I think the game is inheritantly impossible to officiate and unless we turn back the clock and simplify it will stay this way.

And yes games have been close and exciting and as a neutral I enjoy. I guess because of the way the game is going I need to dial back my love of collingwood because I cant get worked up over a game with no set rules.

 

[cleomenes]

Some of the detail in this post does not quite match my perception, but the overall thrust is right. From week to week and even game to game, the rules change. The notion of deliberate out of bounds is one that is constantly changing. From the "every out of bounds is deliberate" at the start of the year to this week's nuanced view, it is impossible to know what will happen in any given case. The score reviews are out of hand now, the rushed behind idiocies have distorted the game in defence and holding the ball interpretations have cycled from sudden death back to "it's OK if the ball doesn't spill out".

I am firmly of the view that nearly all of the problems stem from the abuse of the interchange. From a rule change intended to allow players to go to the bench for treatment and then return if possible, it has changed to a tactical weapon that coaches will not relinquish that allows them to control the game by congesting it. The congestion is what is causing the adjudicators to continually fiddle with the rules, but as long as all of the players are within one kick of the ball no matter where the ball is, the game will be a congested tackle fest. Interchange is what allows this.

Concussion and blood issues complicate the issue beyond merely returning to a no interchange situation, but at its root the problem will only be solved if the AFL has the collective guts to front the coaches and give the game back its space. The umpires can then operate under a consistent set of rules. The occasionally biassed and mistaken decisions will still be there, but the game will be so much better. The close games and comebacks of this season, exciting as they are, should not be used to disguise the fact that as a spectacle, the game is now a dud.

Four umpires doesn't help. It just introduces another set of interpretations and increases confusion. The quality of umpiring is now at an astounding level. The accuracy with which the umpires detect the decisions of players to go for the ball or the man is fantastic. They mostly see the subtle tricks that players use to fool them and are rarely taken in. Their training is clearly exceptional. but they have to play the hand the AFL deals them, and it is a very poor one, with wild cards appearing all of the time.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Its the inconsistency that gets me
* A Push a one end is not a Push at the other end
* Incorrect Disposal in one play is not Incorrect Disposal in the next play
* Ducking is paid, then it is not paid
* Below the legs is just a guess

 

[Rustin Cohle]

>Execute textbook tackle
>Opposition player takes two steps and drops/throws the ball
>Tackle continues due to the laws of physics
>Holding the man free kick paid against
>

 

[Scodog10]

IMO, the game is in pretty good shape if the standard of umpiring is the biggest issue confronting us in 2017! I'm not going to deny anyone that view, but issues with in game officiating exist at every level of every competitive sport around the world. I think our game is the second most difficult to officiate worldwide behind only Union and the rule makers don't make the job any easier.

Given I don't agree with the OP for the betterment of the thread my comment on the state of the game is that it's in wonderful shape. This is the most open season we've enjoyed since 1993 and there were 4 matches decided by a total of 7 points over the weekend and another where 17th knocked off 1st! Name another top level sport worldwide where that's the case?!

I do have an issue with the levels of congestion in pockets of the ground, but some of the suggested solutions are extremely radical so I'm happy to allow things to play out before getting worked up over it. Let's allow things to sort themselves out on that front, but our great game certainly faces greater challenges than umpiring...

 

[JOELY]

One rule I don't understand is the advantage rule. I've seen times when a player has taken advantage and messed it up it's play on, but other times when they mess it up and the umpire says "no advantage", and it comes back. It's seems stupid, especially when a player misses a goal and it gets taken back. it should be a rule where a team doesn't get disadvantage by a free kick being payed, not a second chance rule.
Is it to do with when the umpire calls advantage? I'm confused because I've seen both the umpire call advantage after the team has moved on or kicked at goal, and also stop the play and bring it back because he didn't call advantage.

 

[mike123]

The newest one that shits me is in the back. A player will feel pressure from behind and fling themselves forward, essentially dragging the tackler down with them. That is not what the rule was brought in for, but it illustrates the problems we have with such a 360 free for all sport.
With professionalism, players are gonna exploit any rule they can.
Still, games this year have been pretty awesome.

I have no problem with that one, tacklers just have to adapt.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[loki04]

One rule I don't understand is the advantage rule. I've seen times when a player has taken advantage and messed it up it's play on, but other times when they mess it up and the umpire says "no advantage", and it comes back. It's seems stupid, especially when a player misses a goal and it gets taken back. it should be a rule where a team doesn't get disadvantage by a free kick being payed, not a second chance rule.
Is it to do with when the umpire calls advantage? I'm confused because I've seen both the umpire call advantage after the team has moved on or kicked at goal, and also stop the play and bring it back because he didn't call advantage.

They changed the rule a few years back in regards to taking advantage it used to be solely the umps call now it is meant to be on the players, if they opt to take it and it isn't an advantage it is meant to be play on.

That one that Joe Daniher got a 2nd shot at goal and duly kicked should not of been bought back that was an umpire mistake for example.

 

[magpie_marty]

You raised some great points.
Congestion is my pet hate and when the ball goes forward the attacking player has no options as there is no one ahead.
I know in other comps they have zones etc but personally i am not sure.

And i know this will not happen but the VFA had no wingman and 16 players on the ground,Personally i think this would free up the game to be a better spectacle.And more of a challenge for the coaches in regards to rotations and team selections.

 

[peter9789]

My view is a little lateral / left field on this issue. I think the umpires do not pay enough free kicks. We have doubled the number of umpires from 20 years ago but the approximate free kicks per game on average has remained the same.

We know coaches employ congestion tactics to win games which leads to greater physical contact between players than ever before, But we seem not to see anymore free kicks. I think the umpires are coached to provide only the most technically correct interpretation and this results in massive inconsistencies from week to week and umpire to umpire.

If we pay more free kicks it will break up the congestion and lead to better football and more consistent umpiring as we allow some more flexibility for the umpires.

 

[mike123]

You raised some great points.
Congestion is my pet hate and when the ball goes forward the attacking player has no options as there is no one ahead.
I know in other comps they have zones etc but personally i am not sure.

And i know this will not happen but the VFA had no wingman and 16 players on the ground,Personally i think this would free up the game to be a better spectacle.And more of a challenge for the coaches in regards to rotations and team selections.

I doubt dropping 2 players will fix congestion. It's likely there will be the same number around the ball and just less numbers on the outside.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Alexander323bc]

I was in the unlimited rotations camp. Now I am in the 6 subs and once a player is off, they are off soccer style.

 

[BoxMatrix]

I follow a number of sports, and each sport has endless complaints about umpires and referees. The one complaint that everyone makes is that games are over officiated.

Football fans seem to have this mindset that everything was perfect in the 80s/90s. How about taking of the rose colored glasses?

 

[boxy99]

The game is cooked! Yeah the games are close and the season is even but the state of play sucks ass.

I use to watch a lot of footy but now I'm lucky to watch all our games.

 

[Jasper84]

The score review irks me. Is there any other sport where the video footage is of lower quality than a Charlie Chaplin film?

Pretty simple fix for a goal post review. If the ball hits the post and still goes over the goal line, just make it a goal like every other sport.

 

[esc0bar]

The score review irks me. Is there any other sport where the video footage is of lower quality than a Charlie Chaplin film?

Pretty simple fix for a goal post review. If the ball hits the post and still goes over the goal line, just make it a goal like every other sport.

OK let's say they did that... Could a player walk the ball over the line? Could an opposition player be tackled over the line? This is a contact support remember so sports like basketball and soccer don't compare.

Most of the score reviews are because the umpire thinks the ball has been touched.

No other sport would be constantly obsess about changing the rules if the rules committee weren't changing them every other week.

 

[HeathySure]

I love the game, i love everything about it, have been avidly watching since I was a little tacker and I still can't get enough of it. Ever since I started watching, umpiring has been "the worst its ever been" every single year according to talk back radio and now the internet. That is just wrong. "leave the game alone" says everyone. "let the players play" they say at the end of the game. (why on earth should frees not be given at the end of the game when they are given at the start gets me, it makes no sense at all) but in the end we get used to the new interpretation and we move on.
I think the problem is that the AFL dont actually tell us the correct interpretation of the rules and therefore there is some confusion, and this is exasperated by the stupid commentators on TV not learning the rules correctly and therefore giving us an incorrect summation of the decision. And suddenly every decision is a questionable one.
OF course umpires make mistakes and its a world wide phenomenon that there are home town decisions, not just in our sport, but in general they o their job fairly adequately, we will never get perfection, but we dont get that in anything

 

[Jasper84]

OK let's say they did that... Could a player walk the ball over the line? Could an opposition player be tackled over the line? This is a contact support remember so sports like basketball and soccer don't compare.

Most of the score reviews are because the umpire thinks the ball has been touched.

No other sport would be constantly obsess about changing the rules if the rules committee weren't changing them every other week.

My rule fix was about the ball hitting the goal post. Nothing to do with with a player walking or being tackled over the line. Soccer, rugby and NFL all allow a goal if the ball ricochets off the post through the goals. Scoring a point off a poster that has gone through the goal just makes the game harder to umpire for the sake of it being unique to AFL.

 

[Robroy22]

Opinion/s

1. The rolling maul we now witness every game is coach driven. Most coaches WANT to defend and keep their side in the game for as long as possible so they clog up the scoring opportunities and we get the maul. Limiting interchange even more will not change this, it will perhaps exacerbate it. As a child of the 50's I witnessed sides like Hawthorn and St.Kilda doing exactly the same things...(clogging up the play with numbers, rolling maul) to try and escape huge losses. Tiring players out only makes the problem worse because the team trying to make the play loses the energy to run...so MORE interchanges would be more beneficial (and WAS in 2010) and coaches have to be encouraged to play more attacking footy, rather than simply trying to be competitive.
2. My rule changes would be to deliberate out of bounce and to kicking backwards. I want to encourage kicking the ball forward so I would encourage players to kick it forward by removing the "deliberate" rule from any kick that goes forwards. Actually kicking to the boundary encourages certain skills and would allow backs to have one final chance to save their team from danger (at the moment they have none). Similarly I don't want to promote kicking backward so I would remove the "safety" of the backwards kick by making any kick backwards a "play on situation" where anyone receiving a backwards pass is fair game to be tackled. I'm not removing their right to kick backwards....I'm just making it less EASY to run down the clock.
3. I don't envy our umpires. With more and more TV coverage, slow mo replays and analysis by social media as well as click bait journalists....they're on a hiding to nothing. I'd encourage our umpires to be more proactive rather than reactive. I have no problem with umpires interpreting the rules provided they are consistent over the entire match. I currently think too many of our umps are REACTING to situations (eg. Neil Daniher's day on QB or interstate home games where 99% of the crowd is screaming for one side for the entire day). I want umps to call frees early in the game and then stick with their interpretations for the rest of the game. On Saturday Darcy Moore was savaged going for marks in the first quarter. Arms chopped, head high contact, pushes in the back and then smashed by two backmen whenever he fell to the ground. He didn't get frees for any of the contact made despite being in front and attempting to mark. Yet Callum Brown got a free kick for a player rolling over him in the goal square? If umps pay the first free kick and then show players what they're going to be penalised for by being consistent....then the game gets a lot easier to umpire.

 

[esc0bar]

A

I love the game, i love everything about it, have been avidly watching since I was a little tacker and I still can't get enough of it. Ever since I started watching, umpiring has been "the worst its ever been" every single year according to talk back radio and now the internet. That is just wrong. "leave the game alone" says everyone. "let the players play" they say at the end of the game. (why on earth should frees not be given at the end of the game when they are given at the start gets me, it makes no sense at all) but in the end we get used to the new interpretation and we move on.
I think the problem is that the AFL dont actually tell us the correct interpretation of the rules and therefore there is some confusion, and this is exasperated by the stupid commentators on TV not learning the rules correctly and therefore giving us an incorrect summation of the decision. And suddenly every decision is a questionable one.
OF course umpires make mistakes and its a world wide phenomenon that there are home town decisions, not just in our sport, but in general they o their job fairly adequately, we will never get perfection, but we dont get that in anything

Actually this is untrue. The AFL website does a weekly review, albeit I haven't been watching out for it lately. There has been an unprecendented amount of rule changes since around 2007 in an attempt by the AFL to make it a "better" spectacle. More rule changes in the last 10 years than I can recall with the introduction of the "rules committee" and some over zealous football commissioners (namely Anderson). If you think these changes haven't created mass confusion for umpires and football commentators (let alone the general public) then I don't know what else to say. I guess you're easily entertained...

 

[35Daicos]

I love the game, i love everything about it, have been avidly watching since I was a little tacker and I still can't get enough of it. Ever since I started watching, umpiring has been "the worst its ever been" every single year according to talk back radio and now the internet. That is just wrong. "leave the game alone" says everyone. "let the players play" they say at the end of the game. (why on earth should frees not be given at the end of the game when they are given at the start gets me, it makes no sense at all) but in the end we get used to the new interpretation and we move on.
I think the problem is that the AFL dont actually tell us the correct interpretation of the rules and therefore there is some confusion, and this is exasperated by the stupid commentators on TV not learning the rules correctly and therefore giving us an incorrect summation of the decision. And suddenly every decision is a questionable one.
OF course umpires make mistakes and its a world wide phenomenon that there are home town decisions, not just in our sport, but in general they o their job fairly adequately, we will never get perfection, but we dont get that in anything

Very well said. People were complaining about umpiring and rule changes as long ago as the 1890's. Chances are it'll still be happening 100 years from now! MRP/tribunal, tv commentators, those running the AFL etc. are all said to be clueless, the worst ever etc!! People today are probably whinging more than ever (not just about football matters), perhaps it's just the way of the world these days, sadly it's not likely to go away.

This year we are seeing one of the truly great years of (VFL/AFL) football, there's been so many close games, so many upsets, to have an 18-team competition yet know that even the bottom teams are capable of beating the top ones is fantastic. The game/competition isn't perfect but it's bloody good and I still absolutely love it as well.

 

[mike123]

Opinion/s

1. The rolling maul we now witness every game is coach driven. Most coaches WANT to defend and keep their side in the game for as long as possible so they clog up the scoring opportunities and we get the maul. Limiting interchange even more will not change this, it will perhaps exacerbate it. As a child of the 50's I witnessed sides like Hawthorn and St.Kilda doing exactly the same things...(clogging up the play with numbers, rolling maul) to try and escape huge losses. Tiring players out only makes the problem worse because the team trying to make the play loses the energy to run...so MORE interchanges would be more beneficial (and WAS in 2010) and coaches have to be encouraged to play more attacking footy, rather than simply trying to be competitive.
2. My rule changes would be to deliberate out of bounce and to kicking backwards. I want to encourage kicking the ball forward so I would encourage players to kick it forward by removing the "deliberate" rule from any kick that goes forwards. Actually kicking to the boundary encourages certain skills and would allow backs to have one final chance to save their team from danger (at the moment they have none). Similarly I don't want to promote kicking backward so I would remove the "safety" of the backwards kick by making any kick backwards a "play on situation" where anyone receiving a backwards pass is fair game to be tackled. I'm not removing their right to kick backwards....I'm just making it less EASY to run down the clock.
3. I don't envy our umpires. With more and more TV coverage, slow mo replays and analysis by social media as well as click bait journalists....they're on a hiding to nothing. I'd encourage our umpires to be more proactive rather than reactive. I have no problem with umpires interpreting the rules provided they are consistent over the entire match. I currently think too many of our umps are REACTING to situations (eg. Neil Daniher's day on QB or interstate home games where 99% of the crowd is screaming for one side for the entire day). I want umps to call frees early in the game and then stick with their interpretations for the rest of the game. On Saturday Darcy Moore was savaged going for marks in the first quarter. Arms chopped, head high contact, pushes in the back and then smashed by two backmen whenever he fell to the ground. He didn't get frees for any of the contact made despite being in front and attempting to mark. Yet Callum Brown got a free kick for a player rolling over him in the goal square? If umps pay the first free kick and then show players what they're going to be penalised for by being consistent....then the game gets a lot easier to umpire.

I agree with your first point but not your second point, that discourages switches which can open up the play and created a more free flowing game.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DaVe86]

The holding the ball rule needs to be clarified over the off-season.

I watched 7 games over the weekend, and there was absolutely no consistency with the holding the ball interpretation across those games.

The biggest issue is with dropping the ball I reckon. If there is no prior opportunity, the player is given leeway to just drop the ball or dispose of it by any means (legal or not). I understand if the ball is knocked out in a tackle, but a player should still have an onus of disposing the ball legally, whether he had prior opportunity or not.

it just seems like they've put the whistle away with holding the ball recently. It has to be blatantly obvious, and the player needs so much prior opportunity to get penalized.

I think the umps have to be hot on it. It clears the ball because it doesn't allow packs to form. If a player disposes the ball illegally, it's an automatic free kick. No question needs to be asked about prior.

Also, I hate seeing a guy tackles, then 5 jump on him. I'd also be banning the 2nd or 3rd opposition players jumping in. And I also think a players team-mate needs to be penalized for jumping in as well. The intention here is to ensure the ball is locked in and not cleared. If your own team-mate has the ball and is being tackled, you shouldn't be allowed to jump in and make a scrum. The onus is on the player to dispose of the ball.

In summary, no more 'stacks on' tackling'. If multiple tacklers or team-mates jump in, it's a free kick.