Stats observations

[Hard Ball Get]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Yeah good hit.
I guess you could look at it 2 ways.
1. Where they have another club in between.
2. Where there is no other club in between.

I'll have more of a think and see what I can come up with,

 

[Lurkalot]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Actually nevermind The Fish, Wayne Campbell changed his jumper from 9 to 17 (under Richmond's Captaincy setup) after 256 games. The following year he handed the reins to Kane Johnson & reverted back to no.9 (275 games).

Would you include Gordon Coventry who changed his jumper number 12 times during his 306 games, including each of his last six seasons. Nuts!!

 

[Ron The Bear]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Doug Hawkins - 329 games in #7 at Footscray before 21 in #3 at Fitzroy.

Lockett wore #4 in 90 games at St.Kilda and a further 95 at Sydney, before switching to #46 for the comeback.

At the same club - Andrew Collins played 95 games at Hawthorn in #4 prior to 88 in #5 (and after 29 matches in #40). Not sure if this is the record for a one-club player, but don't think anyone has bettered it in the last 30 years.

David Cloke - 290 matches in #33 (176 Richmond, 114 Collingwood), followed by 43 in #16 at Richmond.

 

[Catsace]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Gary Malarkey who briefly returned to W.A at the start of the 1984 season, saw his #5 guernsey suddenly adorned by one Gary Ablett Sr. Malarkey debuted in 1977, and retired after 172 games, so i'd hazard a guess that Malarkey had played the best part of 120+ games in #5 before his number changed.

 

[mianfei]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Why you feel the need to take a swipe at the Hawks zoning, which occurred some 30 years later, is beyond me. It adds nothing to why Collingwood were so dominant over Hawthorn until the mid 1950's. Which really is the crux of the initial posting.

The reason is that I want readers to understand how the basic cultural problems associated with Hawthorn throughout its early VFL history - which if you read me carefully I have no inclination to believe were remotely understood by VFL officials at any time between 1925 and 1968 - account very simply for why Collingwood were so dominant over Hawthorn until the mid 1950's.

 

[Full Wingspan]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Not sure if it's been done before so whatever....

Alistair Lynch started his career at Fitzroy, then moved to play for the Brisbane Bears, then his two clubs merged and he played for the Brisbane Lions in 1997!

Not that spectacular but meh

 

[Wallaby]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Doug Hawkins - 329 games in #7 at Footscray before 21 in #3 at Fitzroy.

Lockett wore #4 in 90 games at St.Kilda and a further 95 at Sydney, before switching to #46 for the comeback.

At the same club - Andrew Collins played 95 games at Hawthorn in #4 prior to 88 in #5 (and after 29 matches in #40). Not sure if this is the record for a one-club player, but don't think anyone has bettered it in the last 30 years.

David Cloke - 290 matches in #33 (176 Richmond, 114 Collingwood), followed by 43 in #16 at Richmond.

Mickey Martin probably wins - xxx games in No 4 and then one in No 30 late in his career.
Any NorthBhoys know the actual numbers?

 

[budge27]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Martyn had 21 games in #50, 266 games in #4, and 13 blazing games in #10 with the blue baggers

 

[Catsace]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Not sure if it's been done before so whatever....

Alistair Lynch started his career at Fitzroy, then moved to play for the Brisbane Bears, then his two clubs merged and he played for the Brisbane Lions in 1997!

Not that spectacular but meh

Scott McIvor also did this....

 

[Riggy1]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

PAFC has therecord for lowest score in a SANFL Grand Final, kinda ironic when they always bring up the 89 grand final against North fans for their shit score, when Port themselves hold the record

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

1991, 1992 and 1994 were the only years that the VFL/AFL had 24 rounds.

No team lost every Round 23 and Round 24 match they played.

However, Hawthorn and St Kilda are the only sides that won every Round 23 and Round 24 they played.

Given the Eagles played off in Grand Finals in each of those years it appears we like a marathon.

 

[mianfei]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

1993 was the highest scoring year of all time, with a competition average of 104.75 points per team per game.

That is incorrect. In fact, 1982 was quite clearly the highest-scoring year of all time, with an total score of 29591 points from 132 games or an average score of 112.09 points per team per game. In the process, St. Kilda and Footscray became the only teams ever to concede 3,000 points in one season. North Melbourne, fifth, conceded 2,739 from their 24 games including two finals. The previous most by a finalist was 2,525 by Richmond in 1972.

Regarding high scores, did you know that Russell Greene, the Hawthorn and St. Kilda on-baller, played in the two highest-scoring games in VFL history up to when he retired viz:

6 May, 1978  Melbourne Cricket Ground
[COLOR=Navy]Melbourne[/COLOR]   6-2   8-5   15-8   21-15 (141)
St. Kilda   8-7  19-12  23-13  31-18 (204)

(Greene in that match kicked five goals and the game brought him to prominence) and

27 April, 1985  Princes Park
[COLOR=Sienna]Hawthorn[/COLOR]   4-8  9-16  14-18   21-23 (149)
Richmond   5-5  13-10  23-11  29-14 (188)

A remarkable contrast was provided to that latter game by Hawthorn's next loss to the Tigers after sixteen consecutive wins:

16 April, 1995  VFL Park
[COLOR=Sienna]Hawthorn[/COLOR]   3-0  4-0  5-1   5-4 (34)
Richmond   1-5  1-11  3-11  4-16 (40)

This game is the lowest match aggregate score in Hawthorn's VFL history, whereas their previous loss to Richmond was, as you will gather, their highest.

I actually knew this statistic from the moment I heard the result on the news!

 

[Supermercado]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

I'm reading a book on the history of the VFA and there were some absolutely ludicrous scenarios in that competition;

1904 - Richmond forfeit a Grand Final because they don't like the umpire
1907 - Syd Sykes kicks all 12 goals for Prahran against North Melbourne
1911 - North lose their score of 7.5 after having too many players on the field against Preston but still win 10.9 to 7.6
1920 - The Second Semi final between North and Footscray is declared void because of a field invasion by fans
1921 - North withdraw after round 8 to try and join the VFL. They forfeit every game for the rest of the year. Every team benefited once except Williamstown who got two forfeits, slid into fourth place and won the flag. North were allowed back in the next season.
1926 - Brunswick forfeit the last two games of the year in a dispute over suspended players
1927 - Both semi finals are drawn
1938 - Throw passes are allowed, as long as the ball goes forward above the knee and stays below shoulder level. This is allowed until 1949
1944 - The VFL and VFA almost merge but it collapses when the two sides can't decide on whether teams should go up automatically or have to beat the bottom D1 team.
1973 - Caulfield reserves and thirds both play drawn grand finals on the same day
1983 - Moorabbin are readmitted and unfurl the premiership flag they won in 1963 before being booted out of the competition.

 

[RogersResults]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

In the 21st Century (2001-09):

• Essendon have never played before a crowd below 20,000.
• Brisbane have played 64.79% of their matches at night, Melbourne 25%.
• Adelaide have won 55.74% of their matches in Victoria, West Coast 34.21%.
• Richmond has the highest percentage of matches played, won by less than 6pts, Brisbane the least.
• 28.85% of Essendon's matches have been on a Friday, 2.82% of Brisbane's.
  
  More here:
  RogersResults
  

 

[RogersResults]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

I'm reading a book on the history of the VFA and there were some absolutely ludicrous scenarios in that competition;

1904 - Richmond forfeit a Grand Final because they don't like the umpire

Great post. What is the book?
Incidentally there is more about the 1904 Richmond forfeit of the grand final and what followed here.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Incidentally there is more about the 1904 Richmond forfeit of the grand final and what followed here.

The trouble with umpire Allen started earlier that year when captain Alex Edmonds, after having been knocked unconscious and carried off twice against West Melbourne, was again flattened in the Port Melbourne game which Allen controlled. Edmonds contemplated pressing charges of assault against the Port player and had to be talked out of it by teammates.

The club's official history, Tigerland (Brian Hansen), picks up the story:

"Richmond's winning run came to an end in controversial fashion against North Melbourne. The Tigers complained to umpire Allen before the match that past experiences against North had resulted in deep gashes from illegal spikes in their boots. They also demanded he guard against thuggery on the field. North refused to show their boots to the umpire and he did not press the issue.

The game progressed in accordance with Richmond's worst fears and although they were on top of the ladder and had the right to automatically play in the Grand Final the club publicly stated its low opinion of umpire Allen.

Allen wrote to the Richmond committee stating certain rumours had been circulated about him which would injure his character. He asked the club to provide information which would enable him to source the person responsible for the statements. Richmond bluntly replied they knew nothing of the matter and the issue was out of their hands. But it was not to end there.

The fateful meeting came, not on the football field, but in the committee rooms on September 17, 1904. After considerable, and vexed, discussion the committee unanimously voted to write to the VFA objecting to the appointment of umpire Allen for the finals match against North Melbourne. They added that the players through their captain had advised the committee they would not play the match should Allen's appointment stand and they demanded an immediate reply.

The VFA, to the shock of Tigerland, promptly announced Allen would umpire the game and Richmond could forfeit if they chose. The Tigers knew even with Allen in charge they possessed the skills and strength to overcome the brutality and attack of the Shinboners.

But the club was on a crusade. They went public, urging the VFA to review their decision. Allen, they said, through past experience had convinced them he did not have the necessary ability or force of character to control such a severe game as this would undoubtedly be. They accused him of failing to protect Edmonds in the game against Port. They said he had not persisted in inspecting the North boots when they were wearing spikes. Richmond claimed there was no need for the Association to appoint Allen as better umpires were available and they charged them with making the appointment with malice towards the club.
...
From this point onwards the club executive courted the rebel Victorian Football League for admittance."


Proof that the vitriol us Richmond people feel towards umpires is rooted in something concrete! Meanwhile, the ghost of umpire Allen continues to dog the club more than a century later when Brett Allen infamously penalises Richo in the Dreamtime game...

 

[Supermercado]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Great post. What is the book?

The VFA: A History of the Victorian Football Association 1877-1995 by Marc Fiddian.

I randomly came across it in Hawthorn library.

 

[Falchoon]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Trivia Question

Barry Hall has kicked more than 7 goals in an AFL match only once, who was the opponent.

 

[mianfei]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

I'm reading a book on the history of the VFA and there were some absolutely ludicrous scenarios in that competition;

1904 - Richmond forfeit a Grand Final because they don't like the umpire
1907 - Syd Sykes kicks all 12 goals for Prahran against North Melbourne
1911 - North lose their score of 7.5 after having too many players on the field against Preston but still win 10.9 to 7.6
1920 - The Second Semi final between North and Footscray is declared void because of a field invasion by fans
1921 - North withdraw after round 8 to try and join the VFL. They forfeit every game for the rest of the year. Every team benefited once except Williamstown who got two forfeits, slid into fourth place and won the flag. North were allowed back in the next season.
1926 - Brunswick forfeit the last two games of the year in a dispute over suspended players
1927 - Both semi finals are drawn
1938 - Throw passes are allowed, as long as the ball goes forward above the knee and stays below shoulder level. This is allowed until 1949
1944 - The VFL and VFA almost merge but it collapses when the two sides can't decide on whether teams should go up automatically or have to beat the bottom D1 team.
1973 - Caulfield reserves and thirds both play drawn grand finals on the same day
1983 - Moorabbin are readmitted and unfurl the premiership flag they won in 1963 before being booted out of the competition.

You are right that all of these scenarios were totally ludicrous. The history of North Melbourne in the VFL pre-Barassi shows I think that the VFL really was justified in not letting them in: North clearly did not have the necessary recruiting space to be successful. North's admission no doubt hindered the success of Essendon between 1927 and 1939 and Footscray between 1963 and 1973 - such that I wonder why Footscray could not argue when they were considering admission for the VFL not to admit North.

 

[terrybull]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

You are right that all of these scenarios were totally ludicrous. The history of North Melbourne in the VFL pre-Barassi shows I think that the VFL really was justified in not letting them in: North clearly did not have the necessary recruiting space to be successful. North's admission no doubt hindered the success of Essendon between 1927 and 1939 and Footscray between 1963 and 1973 - such that I wonder why Footscray could not argue when they were considering admission for the VFL not to admit North.

Also in 1908 North Melbourne merged with 1906 Premiers and 1907 Runners-up West Melbourne (who wore red and white) to strengthen their chances for a place in the VFL. When Richmond and University were favoured instead, North returned back to the VFA, but West were gone. North agreed to wear a red sash on their blue and white jumpers to honour West, but this was soon dropped during the 1909 season. So all Fitzroy fans, it might have been a good thing not to have merged with North Melbourne.

 

[mianfei]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

So all Fitzroy fans, it might have been a good thing not to have merged with North Melbourne.

I cannot understand that, but cannot say that even when both teams were struggling that such a merger was ever considered. A very good article on this history of the V/AFL says

...the member-owned nature of clubs could inhibit mergers and/or relocations to more viable markets, which would otherwise enhance competitive balance.

When competitive balance was very low in the middle to late 1960s, had country zoning with all its unfortunate consequences not been introduced and given Hawthorn, Footscray, North and Fitzroy highly productive zones, it would have been hard to see how any of these clubs could have challenged the supremacy of the top six clubs of Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, Richmond and St. Kilda. They simply did not have the financial resources or supporter base to do so.

At the end of period 4 (1945-1967) there is another period of significant competitive imbalance in the years before the introduction of country zoning in 1968. In the six years between 1962 and 1967, three times the ratio is above 2 and two other years have ratios above 1.88.

With Fitzroy and Footscray their supporter base was eroded by the demographic changes typical of the 1960s. Even in the long term those clubs would without country zoning have almost certainly stayed firmly attached to the bottom of the ladder right through the 1970s and 1980s. (With Hawthorn, too, the prevalent marianismo of eastern-suburbs culture strengthened in this era, so without the enormous aid of country zoning, their success rate might have fallen as low as it was up to 1953 - around 21.5%. North might have improved as the northwestern suburbs grew, but the fact that outer-suburban marianismo is truly alive west of the Yarra makes me doubt this).

Under a scenario of no country zoning (or other efforts to improve the low competitive balance of the middle to late 1960s), mergers would probably have become a necessity by 1980 as inflation pushed wages of players up. However, I do not think Fitzroy would have turned to North as a merger partner. More likely,

• North and Footscray
• and Fitzroy and Hawthorn

would have considered mergers.

 

[worbod]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

1. The record for the highest percentage recorded is 771.4 by Fitzroy after round 1, 1904.
2. The most goals in a season without a ten goal haul is 122 by Gary Ablett in 1995.
3. The winning team has scored more in the first quarter than their losing opponents have in all four quarters on 228 occasions.
4. Peter McKenna finished his senior football career by playing for six different teams in six seasons: Collingwood (1975), Devonport (1976), Carlton (1977), Geelong West (1978), Port Melbourne (1979), and Northcote (1980).
5. There have been four instances in which the premier team's lowest score of the season was their Grand Final winning score: Richmond in 1921 (5.6.36), Collingwood in 1927 (2.13.25), Carlton in 1979 (11.16.82) and Brisbane Lions in 2002 (10.15.75). Brisbane Lions also kicked 10.15.75 in round 5 that season.

 

[Catsace]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Geelong's win over Essendon means that the Cats now have won 90 or 91 games against five different opponents...although at rather different percentages.

In order of best to worst win percentages it's as follows.

Vs Western Bulldogs.....91 wins 55 losses 2 draws

Vs North Melbourne......90 wins 58 losses 0 draws

Vs Essendon ..............90 wins 112 losses 5 draws

Vs Carlton..................91 wins 115 losses 2 draws

Vs Collingwood............91 wins 124 losses 1 draw.

For what it's worth we've also won 95 games against Richmond compared to 85 losses.

But it's amazing the similarity of record against the Big Three clubs, who along with West Coast and Brisbane Lions are the only teams to have a positive win/loss ratio over Geelong.

 

[red+black]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Congratulations to Fremantle on finishing the round 2nd on the ladder. This is the first time ever that they have achieved this. If they managed to score one more point they would have finished the round on top, again, something Fremantle have never achieved.

 

[RogersResults]

Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

5 from Round 1 2010

1. Richmond's 3rd consecutive match lost in all 4 quarters equaling the club record. (Previously, rounds 16-18 1989, rounds 18-20 1992, rounds 16-18 2007)

2. 56pts is the highest half time margin maintained (that is the 2nd half was a draw, 7.7-49 each) in any match played by either Melbourne or Hawthorn and the 2nd highest recorded overall. In round 1 1944 Footscray lead Geelong by 58pts at half time, the 2nd half was a draw 6.11-47 to 7.5-47.

3. Sydney/SM's 5th consecutive round 1 defeat, a new club record. Previous 4 - 1994-1997 and 1955-1958.

4. First time Brisbane has defeated West Coast after trailing at 3/4 time.

5. First time Port Adelaide has won round 1 in consecutive seasons.

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