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Stats observations

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Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Wild stat. I guess there's quite a few occasions where the scores are tied and somebody taps a ball through or kicks a low percentage shot for a behind just to get in front.

I'll be punting 5 point results home from here on.

Thanks for that.

Be aware the frequency changes depending on the time scale.


Since 2001, 4 pts. has been as common as 1 pt. and
3,7,8,9,10,15,18,23,26 and 31 pts. have had more
occurrences than 5pts.



There is variance with teams too.


Collingwood's most common winning margins 1897- 2010 are
10 and 19 pts.



Carlton's most common winning margins 1897-2010 has been
16 pts. and 6 pts second with 12 fewer occurrences.



Essendon's most common is 6 pts followed by 4 and 17 pts.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

1897 - round 10 2010


  1. 1 pt. 308 times
  2. 5 pts. 298 times
  3. 2 pts. 294 times
  4. 6 pts. 287 times
  5. 9 pts. 284 times
Interesting reason for all those 1- and 5-point results. Teams might get a late goal to win after being a point down. In 1980, ten matches out of 138 were won by 5 pts, including two won with fewer goals. There have been nineteen matches won with one fewer goal and eleven more behinds, and one match between Fitzroy and North Melbourne in 1970 where the Lions won by five points despite kicking the lowest goal tally for 182 games! The score? Fitzroy 5.24 (54) defeated North Melbourne 7.7 (49).

Of the nineteen matches one with one fewer goal but eleven more behinds, there were two on Round 13 of 1994 alone, viz:

  1. Richmond 9.18 (72) defeated North Melbourne 10.7 (67)
  2. Adelaide 11.17 (83) defeated Melbourne 12.6 (78)
The first of these games was particularly notable because no goals were scored to quarter time. Only two games since then, between Geelong and West Coast at Kardinia Park in 1998 and between Port Adelaide and Fremantle in 2006 at Football Park, have had no goals scored in the first quarter. There have overall been 34 such games since 1919, or one in three hundred and fifty three - so the rarity of this occurrence is apparent.

The second was Adelaide’s first-ever win with fewer goals.

It would be interesting to see someone who has been to either of those games?
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

I believe Lewis Jetta is on 0.12 since the start of the season, is that the record? I remember reading 0.11 was a record of sorts, but not sure if it's the same one.

J.Bolton equaled Ablett's record of 26 contested possessions today also. :thumbsu:
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

  1. Round 12 is on average the lowest-scoring round of the 22 in operation since 1970, with an average score since 1908 of 82 points as against Round 1’s 90.
  2. Melbourne played two consecutive draws on Round 12 in 1952 and 1953, one of only four such occurrences and the latest in a season
  3. The last time Melbourne conceded three or fewer goals was in Round 12 of 1971. Since then they have played 883 games and only twice (both in 1994) conceded as few as four goals. If Melbourne does not concede three or fewer goals in its next 110 games, it will beat the Swans’ 1954-2001 record for most games without doing so.
  4. Richmond have never failed to score in the last quarter since Round 12 of 1961, in a round whose average score was only 47 points with a high of 65, the lowest for any round since 12 clubs competed
  5. The last two matches won with two fewer goals (Carlton against St. Kilda in 1987 and North Melbourne against Melbourne in 1999) have both been in Round 12. Before that, though, no Round 12 match had been won with two fewer goals.
 

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Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Round 11 – 2010

1) 7th time this year that Richmond's score has included at least 1 goalless quarter - their most since 11 for the 1964 season. (3 in 2009.)

2) Only the 2nd match that Nth Melbourne has won where they scored more than half their total score in the first quarter and less than 25% of their total after half time. Previous: Round 4, 2001 Nth Melbourne 5.4-34 in the 1st quarter and 1.5-11 after half time won, 7.11-53 v Geelong 4.9-33.

3) Besides being the only Victorian team to have won more than they have lost at Subiaco Oval Geelong now have a higher M/W% (56.0) there than Fremantle (54.12)

4)
Only the 2nd time that Essendon has loss a match by 9 behinds. Previous: Round 6, 1915 - 8.7-55 v Sydney/SM 8.16-64.

5) First match between Sydney/SM and Essendon where the quarter and full time margins were 9 pts or less since round 13 1946. (6,1,8,1)



More Here:
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

I believe Lewis Jetta is on 0.12 since the start of the season, is that the record? I remember reading 0.11 was a record of sorts, but not sure if it's the same one.

It's a modern-day record among players for whom full stats are publicly available. Adrian Whitehead (Ca), Nathan Brown (Me) and Kingsley Hunter (Fr) all kicked 10 behinds before their first goal. North's Ryan Bastinac is a potential challenger with 0.7 to date.

Tom Allen is recorded as having kicked 0.12 on debut against North Melbourne in 1949 by the Richmond player biography Tigers Of Old, although the AFL Record Season Guide gives his return as 0.11. Don't know how many behinds he kicked subsequently, but he played as a half forward and registered his first goal in game #6.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Teams who played four finals games to win the premiership

5 1977 North Melbourne (3 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw)
4 1948 Melbourne (2 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw)
4 1972 Carlton (2 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw)
4 1973 Richmond (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 1975 North Melbourne (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 1982 Carlton (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 1990 Collingwood (3 wins, 1 draw)
4 1993 Essendon (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 1997 Adelaide (4 wins)
4 1998 Adelaide (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 2003 Brisbane Lions (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 2005 Sydney (3 wins, 1 loss)
4 2006 West Coast (3 wins, 1 loss)
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

There is an article in today's HUN on page 76 that says big comebacks are getting rarer.
It states that since 07' only 5.2% of all sides that fall 30 plus points down come back and win.

Where can I find out the states prior to 07? Any ideas? I just find it hard to believe that such comebacks are rarer.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

There is an article in today's HUN on page 76 that says big comebacks are getting rarer.
It states that since 07' only 5.2% of all sides that fall 30 plus points down come back and win.

Where can I find out the states prior to 07? Any ideas? I just find it hard to believe that such comebacks are rarer.

(Have repaired the table below thanks to help from RogersResults :thumbsu:)

The following figures relate to margins at the breaks only. I doubt that data exists on margins during quarters, other than for the past few seasons.

.Seasons .| Gmes .30+ .30+% . W W%30 W%All | 40+ .40+% .W W%40 W%All
----------|--------------------------------|------------------------
1897-1900 | .271 . 82 30.3% . 0 0.0% 0.00% | .47 17.3% .0 0.0% 0.00%
1901-1910 | .780 .226 29.0% . 2 0.9% 0.26% | 107 13.7% .0 0.0% 0.00%
1911-1920 | .739 .216 29.2% . 5 2.3% 0.68% | 118 16.0% .1 0.8% 0.14%
1921-1930 | .971 .317 32.6% . 6 1.9% 0.62% | 170 17.5% .0 0.0% 0.00%
1931-1940 | 1120 .454 40.5% .29 6.4% 2.59% | 224 20.0% .5 2.2% 0.45%
1941-1950 | 1102 .457 41.5% .22 4.8% 2.00% | 254 23.0% .2 0.8% 0.18%
1951-1960 | 1126 .412 36.6% .14 3.4% 1.24% | 190 16.9% .3 1.6% 0.27%
1961-1970 | 1169 .472 40.4% .19 4.0% 1.63% | 236 20.2% .2 0.8% 0.17%
1971-1980 | 1380 .605 43.8% .33 5.5% 2.39% | 363 26.3% .9 2.5% 0.65%
1981-1990 | 1469 .764 52.0% .34 4.5% 2.31% | 488 33.2% 10 2.0% 0.68%
1991-2000 | 1785 .872 48.9% .36 4.1% 2.02% | 570 31.9% .9 1.6% 0.50%
2001-2010 | 1761 .827 47.0% .24 2.9% 1.36% | 496 28.2% .5 1.0% 0.28%
----------|--------------------------------|------------------------
All . . . |13673 5704 41.7% 224 3.9% 1.64% |3263 23.9% 46 1.4% 0.34%


Essentially the HS headline is correct, but perhaps the trend should be viewed in a broader context. There have been demonstrated ebbs and flows throughout the game's history, similar to other scoring patterns.

Matches at the moment are tending to be fought with a somewhat grim resolve with an emphasis on tackling and defensive pressure, epitomised by North closing the game up last night and denying Carlton the opportunity to make space and run.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

The following figures relate to margins at the breaks only. I doubt that data exists on margins during quarters, other than for the past few seasons.

. Years . Gmes 30+ . % .40+ . %
---------------------------------
1897-1900 .271 . 0 0.00% .0 0.00%
1901-1910 .780 . 2 0.26% .0 0.00%
1911-1920 .739 . 5 0.68% .1 0.14%
1921-1930 .971 . 6 0.62% .0 0.00%
1931-1940 1120 .29 2.59% .5 0.45%
1941-1950 1102 .22 2.00% .2 0.18%
1951-1960 1126 .14 1.24% .3 0.27%
1961-1970 1169 .19 1.63% .2 0.17%
1971-1980 1380 .33 2.39% .9 0.65%
1981-1990 1469 .46 3.13% 17 1.16%
1991-2000 1785 .43 2.41% 14 0.78%
2001-2010 1754 .26 1.48% .5 0.29%
---------------------------------
. . . . .13666 245 1.79% 58 0.42%

Counting matches where the winning team trailed by 30 points or more in at least 1 quarter my figures up to 1971-1980 concur but for 1981-1990 I get 34, 1991-2000 - 36, 2001-2010 -24 for a total of 224.
(My total for 40 points or more is 46.)

Below is count for each year 1981-2010 (which also shows the variation from one season to the next.)

1981 5
1982 3
1983 6
1984 2
1985 2
1986 1
1987 7
1988 2
1989 3
1990 3
1991 4
1992 1
1993 2
1994 4
1995 3
1996 0
1997 5
1998 3
1999 8
2000 6
2001 5
2002 1
2003 1
2004 2
2005 3
2006 2
2007 2
2008 7
2009 1
2010 0

RogersResults
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Counting matches where the winning team trailed by 30 points or more in at least 1 quarter my figures up to 1971-1980 concur but for 1981-1990 I get 34, 1991-2000 - 36, 2001-2010 -24 for a total of 224.
(My total for 40 points or more is 46.)

You may well be right Roger as my Q by Q scores were hand-entered many years ago, before the advent of stats websites, from Every Game Ever Played. I've since updated final scores fom the (seemingly defunct) AFL website stats section, but not the the Q by Q scores, and usually refrain from posting on such things in deference to others such as yourself. :)

But I will do a quick check now as I'm slightly embarrassed. :o
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Seems my data has some issues with the scores for the first three quarters being attributed to the opposite team in some cases. This scenario was tailor-made to bring me unstuck. :p
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

One sidelight, “Ron the Bear”, to your note about the rarity of comebacks in today’s football is to look at unsuccessful comebacks, which in my experience listening to football are actually more interesting and exciting that successful comebacks.

An interesting means of looking at this that I have studied lately is to look, using the same periods you do, at the frequency of games won by only winning the first quarter. As you can imagine, this is a rare feat, occurring only in one match in 180 since the VFL was formed in 1897.

.
Years
....Games.Only Q1..%
-----------------------------
1897-1900
...271....0....0.00%
1901-1910
...780....1....0.13%
1911-1920
...739....2....0.27%
1921-1930
...971....7....0.72%
1931-1940
..1120....6....0.53%
1941-1950
..1102....8....0.73%
1951-1960
..1126....9....0.79%
1961-1970
..1169....7....0.60%
1971-1980
..1380....8....0.58%
1981-1990
..1469...14....0.95%
1991-2000
..1785....7....0.39%
2001-2010
..1754....6....0.34%
-----------------------------
..........13666...74....0.54%

As you can see, the frequency of matches won by winning only the first quarter has declined very significantly since 1991. In fact, only two games since the sixth round of 2004 have been won by winning only the first quarter (both by St. Kilda in 2009). This suggests, as you are saying, that
…the HS headline is correct, but perhaps the trend should be viewed in a broader context. There have been demonstrated ebbs and flows throughout the game's history, similar to other scoring patterns.

Matches at the moment are tending to be fought with a somewhat grim resolve with an emphasis on tackling and defensive pressure, epitomised by North closing the game up last night and denying Carlton the opportunity to make space and run.
which would mean that it is very hard for a team to get a big break unless it is simply much better than its opponent - not if it is simply making a desperate effort to win and gets away for reasons other than being more skilled.
 

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Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Last week, Shannon Hurn had 21 kicks and 0 handballs...very rare Id think for the modern game

Any players had more kicks without handballs (Im sure there definately is but how long ago, maybe) :D
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

  1. Of the 100 highest aggregate scores (286 to 345 points),
    • North Melbourne have played in as many as twenty-eight
    • Fitzroy in twenty-one
    • Sydney/South Melbourne in twenty
    • Port Adelaide have not played in any, whilst West Coast have played in only one (their fourth-ever game), Fremantle in one, Adelaide in three and Brisbane in five.
    • Footscray in only six
    • Carlton in only eight
  2. Of the 66 pairs possible amongst the 12 clubs competing from 1925 to 1986:
    • Collingwood v St. Kilda has six of the top 100 aggregate scores
    • Fitzroy v North Melbourne has five
    • Essendon v North Melbourne and Richmond v St. Kilda both have four
  3. Of the ten St. Kilda games against Collingwood and Richmond in the list, the Saints lost every one, whilst Essendon won all four games against North Melbourne among the top 100 aggregate scores
  4. twenty pairs of the 66 are not represented at all in the top 100 aggregate scores:
    1. Carlton v Collingwood
    2. Carlton v Essendon
    3. Carlton v Geelong
    4. Carlton v Melbourne
    5. Carlton v St. Kilda
    6. Carlton v South Melbourne/Sydney
    7. Collingwood v Essendon
    8. Collingwood v Footscray
    9. Colllingwood v Hawthorn
    10. Collingwood v Richmond
    11. Essendon v Footscray
    12. Essendon v Melbourne
    13. Essendon v Richmond
    14. Essendon v St. Kilda
    15. Footscray v Hawthorn
    16. Footscray v Melbourne
    17. Footscray v Richmond
    18. Hawthorn v Melbourne
    19. Hawthorn v South Melbourne/Sydney
    20. North Melbourne v St. Kilda
  5. The only case of two games between the same sides in the top 100 aggregate scores is Hawthorn v Richmond in 1985. Their Round 5 clash with an aggregate score of 50.37 (337) is equal second; their Round 16 clash with 44.29 (293) stands equal sixty-first.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Last week, Shannon Hurn had 21 kicks and 0 handballs...very rare Id think for the modern game

Any players had more kicks without handballs (Im sure there definately is but how long ago, maybe) :D

Ki Player . . . . .Cb Year Rd Op
--------------------------------
25 Ablett, Gary . .Ge 1993 .6 Es
24 Bruns, Neville .Ge 1990 18 Es
23 Bruns, Neville .Ge 1990 12 Co
23 Yze, Adem . . . Me 1998 .3 Br
23 Yze, Adem . . . Me 2001 .8 Es
23 Brennan, Jared .Br 2007 .2 St
23 Didak, Alan . . Co 2008 .3 Ri
22 Wilson, Peter . Ri 1989 .1 Sy
22 Winmar, Nicky . St 1991 17 Ge
22 Jakovich, Allen Me 1991 20 NM
22 Pickett, Byron .NM 1999 22 Ad
21 Winmar, Nicky . St 1988 .7 WC
21 Bruns, Neville .Ge 1990 14 Ha
21 Lewis, Dale . . Sy 1991 12 WB
21 Harvey, Mark . .Es 1992 10 Ca
21 Hinkley, Ken . .Ge 1992 12 Ca
21 Matera, Peter . WC 1995 .7 Fr
21 McGrath, Tim . .Ge 1995 QF WB
21 Jarman, Darren .Ad 1997 .6 Co
21 Hilton, Rory . .Ri 2000 .5 St
21 Hurn, Shannon . WC 2010 11 Ge
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Round 12 2010:

1) First time Nth Melbourne's score has been 97 pts v Carlton and the first time Carlton's score has been 68 pts v Nth Melbourne.
2) Hawthorn's equal best improvement in matches 7-12 over their performance in matches 1-6 of a season. 1 win 5 losses in rounds 1-6 and 5 wins 1 loss in rounds 6-12. Previous: 1970 - 0 wins 6 losses in rounds 1-6 and 4 wins 2 losses in rounds 7-12. An improvement in M/W% in both cases of 66.66%. (In 1970 they finished in 8th place with 10 wins and 12 losses.)
3) Geelong have now won 6 matches in 2010 by winning all 4 quarters which is 1 off their record for a whole season - 7 in 1989, 2007 and 2008.
4) Richmond's 600th match at the MCG.
5) First time Melbourne has drawn a match where their opponent scored 2 fewer goals.


More Here:
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Players who have held their club record for most games and most goals in a career




Player . . . . .Club Games Goals Rounds record was held
-------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Coventry Coll . 306 . 1299 Rd 9, 1935-Rd 18, 1994
Simon Madden . .Ess . .378 . .575 Rd 21, 1989-Rd 19, 2003
Leigh Matthews .Haw . .332 . .915 Rd 11, 1983-Rd 1, 1994
Albie Morrison .Foot . 224 . .369 1st Semi 1946-Rd 7, 1948
David Neitz . . Melb . 306 . .631 Rd 10, 2006-present
John Peck . . . Haw . .213 . .475 Rd 6,1966-Rd 15, 1967
Dick Reynolds . Ess . .320 . .442 Grand Final 1949-Rd 2, 1953
Jack Titus . . .Rich . 294 . .970.Rd 1, 1942-Rd 16, 1948
Warren Tredrea .Port . 255 . .549 Rd 2, 2005-present
 

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Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Most goals in a calendar month:

Go Year Mth Player
----------------------------
46 1970 Aug McKenna, Peter
43 1952 Aug Coleman, John
40 1971 Jul Hudson, Peter
39 1934 May Pratt, Bob
39 1970 Aug Hudson, Peter
38 1933 Jul Pratt, Bob
38 1991 May Lockett, Tony
37 1929 Jul Coventry, Gordon
37 1938 May Todd, Ron
37 1969 May Wade, Doug
37 1989 Apr Lockett, Tony
37 1993 May Ablett, Gary
36 1933 Jul Coventry, Gordon
36 1970 May Hudson, Peter
36 1993 Jul Ablett, Gary
35 1930 Jul Coventry, Gordon
35 1933 Jul Johnson, Bob C.
35 1969 Aug McKenna, Peter
35 1972 Aug McKenna, Peter
35 1990 Apr Lockett, Tony
35 1995 Aug Lockett, Tony
34 1934 Aug Pratt, Bob
34 1991 Aug Lockett, Tony
34 1994 May Ablett, Gary
34 1996 Aug Dunstall, Jason


Most by a current player is 29 in July 2005 by Matthew Pavlich.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Ki Player . . . . .Cb Year Rd Op
--------------------------------
22 Wilson, Peter . Ri 1989 .1 Sy
21 Winmar, Nicky . St 1988 .7 WC
I read that during that opening round game, the SCG was completely waterlogged because of the continual rain that fell every weekend up to Round 11 - when the rain moved to Melbourne for a number of weeks with some of the lowest scores of modern times (indeed the sole season since 1912 with more than one score of 0 or 1 goal). Being a Richmond supporter, I wonder if you have any memories of that game?

The Round 7 1988 game, in which despite Winmar’s efforts the Eagles completely swamped St. Kilda in torrential rain and high winds described as a “tide”, would be very similar. Even though wet-weather football in Perth where soils do not form mud is very different from wet-weather football in Melbourne or Adelaide, with such a powerful wind it would hardly be advantageous to fiddle with the ball when one can kick it very far.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

I read that during that opening round game, the SCG was completely waterlogged because of the continual rain that fell every weekend up to Round 11 - when the rain moved to Melbourne for a number of weeks with some of the lowest scores of modern times (indeed the sole season since 1912 with more than one score of 0 or 1 goal). Being a Richmond supporter, I wonder if you have any memories of that game?

Only vaguely remember watching it on TV, with high hopes after a good finish to 1988. All I can recall is that it was wet, scores were close all day, and we lost. Pretty forgettable year, 1989.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Melbourne has made at least one change to its team in its previous 94 matches. The last unchanged Demons side played in R8 2006.

Richmond did not field an unchanged team for 244 consecutive matches, from R1 1947 to R5 1960.

Collingwood fielded the same lineup for six consecutive weeks between R3 and R8, 1929.
 
Re: Post 5 random (obscure) stats

Teams who had the same number of goals and behinds at the end of each quarter


Team/Opponent . . . . . . Season . . . . . .Goals & Behinds
Essendon v Fitzroy . . . .Round 4, 1897 . . . .1,3,5,6
Carlton v Fitzroy . . . . 2nd Round, 1898 . . .1,1,1,1
South Melb v Collingwood .Round 12, 1905 . . . 2,2,3,3
University v Carlton . . .Round 18, 1908 . . . 0,2,3,4
South Melb v St.Kilda . . Round 5, 1914 . . . .2,5,8,11
University v Geelong . . .Round 13, 1914 . . . 1,1,2,3
St.Kilda v Carlton . . . .Round 9, 1915 . . . .1,1,1,1
Richmond v Collingwood . .Round 11, 1917 . . . 0,3,4,7
Collingwood v St.Kilda . .Round 8, 1934 . . . .3,6,9,12
South Melb v Geelong . . .Round 7, 1938 . . . .4,6,9,10
Collingwood v Hawthorn . .Round 6, 1939 . . . .3,6,10,14
St.Kilda v Richmond . . . Round 15, 1942 . . . 2,4,7,8
St.Kilda v Fitzroy . . . .Round 16, 1947 . . . 0,3,3,9
Footscray v South Melb . .Round 19, 1952 . . . 2,8,9,13
Collingwood v Geelong . . Round 8, 1955 . . . .1,3,7,11
Footscray v Richmond . . .Round 6, 1957 . . . .3,6,12,14
South Melb v St.Kilda . . Round 13, 1962 . . . 4,6,9,9
Collingwood v Essendon . .Round 18, 1963 . . . 3,4,6,8
Fitzroy v North Melb . . .Round 16, 1967 . . . 6,6,13,15
North Melb v Essendon . . Round 2, 1968 . . . .1,3,6,9
Footscray v Richmond . . .Round 22, 1973 . . . 2,5,8,11
Hawthorn v Footscray . . .Round 20, 1975 . . . 3,6,11,13
Collingwood v Footscray . Round 12, 1981 . . . 3,7,8,14
Fitzroy v Melbourne . . . Round 8, 1983 . . . .4,7,12,18
St.Kilda v Geelong . . . .Round 11, 1992 . . . 3,8,13,18
Melbourne v Footscray . . Round 8, 1994 . . . .4,8,10,13
Bris Bears v North Melb . Round 19, 1996 . . . 2,5,7,11
St. Kilda v Sydney . . . .Round 5, 2002 . . . .2,2,5,8
Port v Collingwood . . . .Round 4, 2007 . . . .3,7,9,12


Of all the above instances, only Collingwood's effort versus St.Kilda in 1934 has a mathematical pattern, increasing by three goals and behinds at the end of each quarter.
 
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