Stats observations

[Catsace]

LOL at Dunstall and Lockett carrying the loads by themselves.

Staggering that Matthews is made up so much of Leigh's contribution...it's not an altogether totally uncommon name?

Actually R.T.B....among that list, which is the lowest 'high' among the best goalkickers by surname...sort of indicating which name has the most even spread?

 

[emuboy]

Melbourne like Olympic years, winning premierships in 1900, 1940*, 1948, 1956, 1960 and 1964, while the Demons' only two Grand Final appearances after 1964 came in 1988 and 2000, both Olympic years.

St. Kilda on the other hand do not like Olympic years. The Saints finished last in 1900, 1904, 1920, 1924, 1948, 1952, 1984, 1988 and 2000.

* The scheduled 1940 Olympic Games for London were cancelled due to World War II

 

[Ron The Bear]

Actually R.T.B....among that list, which is the lowest 'high' among the best goalkickers by surname...sort of indicating which name has the most even spread?

Surname	Goals	Players	Best		St Dev
Smith	3347	126	572	Smith, Norm W.	65.9
Johnson	3300	52	558	Johnson, Brad	124.1
Brown	2661	66	594	Brown, Jonathan	95.1
Williams	2118	81	307	Williams, Paul	60.3
Lynch	1852	24	633	Lynch, Alastair	150.7
Richardson	1800	27	800	Richardson, Matthew	166.5
Ablett	1742	7	1031	Ablett senior, Gary	377.5
Murphy	1715	35	374	Murphy, John F.	81.4
Davis	1659	24	372	Davis, Allan	118.2
Kennedy	1616	34	645	Kennedy, Josh J.	117.2
Wilson	1600	51	452	Wilson, Garry	79.8
Jones	1589	67	284	Jones, Peter	51.8
Hall	1512	35	746	Hall, Barry	129.7
White	1436	46	540	White, Lindsay	86.9
Riewoldt	1382	2	718	Riewoldt, Nick	38.2
Clarke	1379	39	319	Clarke, David E.	73.9
Ryan	1373	51	261	Ryan, Joe	52.3
Lockett	1360	1	1360	Lockett, Tony
Taylor	1349	55	527	Taylor, Brian	73.5
Coventry	1310	2	1299	Coventry, Gordon	910.8
Matthews	1271	19	915	Matthews, Leigh	208.9
Grant	1255	14	554	Grant, Chris	167.3
Collins	1254	38	385	Collins, Jack Charles	69.1
Dunstall	1254	1	1254	Dunstall, Jason
Young	1236	32	284	Young, George Albert	73.2
Hudson	1232	6	727	Hudson, Peter	317.9
Hart	1187	15	369	Hart, Royce	118.0
Rocca	1163	2	748	Rocca, Saverio	235.5
Green	1163	28	350	Green, Brad	84.2
Thompson	1162	39	327	Thompson, Nathan	71.5
Lloyd	1141	11	926	Lloyd, Matthew	274.8
Cameron	1140	27	427	Cameron, Jeremy	88.8
Robertson	1128	37	428	Robertson, Russell	81.1
Scott	1094	35	222	Scott, Robert	51.0
Wade	1090	6	1057	Wade, Doug	428.9
Mitchell	1037	28	301	Mitchell, Hugh	73.0
Wright	1029	27	247	Wright, Stephen	63.9
Harris	1017	25	548	Harris, Dick D.	110.1
Evans	1004	39	257	Evans, Bernie	57.5

Technically the Riewoldts show the least variance, but among the common names it's Scott, just ahead of Jones.

 

[worbod]

Most consecutive seasons in and out of the finals series
(bolded years = played finals)

Carlton (11) 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950
Footscray (9) 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949
Essendon (9) 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959
Melbourne (8) 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
Melbourne (7) 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951
Geelong (6) 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1925
St. Kilda (6) 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965
Richmond (6) 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971
Geelong (6) 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980
Fitzroy (6) 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983
North Melb. (6) 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988
Collingwood (6) 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995

 

[North park]

This week we will see:

Four games between teams that are 1-0:

Richmond v Hawthorn
St. Kilda v Melbourne
Western Bulldogs v West Coast
Sydney v Adelaide

Four games between teams that are 0-1:

Carlton v Collingwood
Geelong v Brisbane
Fremantle v GWS
Gold Coast v North Melbourne

And the only game between a 1-0 team (Port Adelaide) and a 0-1 team (Essendon)

It means after Round 2 (barring any draws) we will have:

4 or 5 teams with a 2-0 record
8 or 10 teams with a 1-1 record
4 or 5 teams with a 0-2 record

All very symmetrical.

 

[emuboy]

To finish last is disappointing and can be demoralizing, but when you finish last without a single win premiership glory never seems further away.

Of teams that have gone through a season without winning a match, how long did they have to wait before winning a premiership? Here is a list:

St Kilda 1902 - The Saints also went winless in 1897, 1898 & 1899, but 1902 was particularly bad for the Saints, which finished last by an amazing 7 games, the largest gap between second last and last in AFL/VFL history. But bad as this was, Saints fans in 1902 would have been even more horrified had they known that St Kilda would not taste premiership glory until 1966, after another 64 long years which included some very bad seasons with few and far between finals appearances.

University 1914 - University, which experienced winless seasons in both 1913 and 1914, never got the chance to turn things around. They left the VFL at the end of 1914 following the outbreak of World War One, and did not return when the war ended.

Melbourne 1919 - The Demons went winless after returning from World War One recess, but only had to wait 7 years before getting their hands on a flag, with Melbourne crushing Collingwood to take out the 1926 Grand Final. One player of the Demons winless 1919 team holds a unique record; Harry Selover, who played three matches for Melbourne was born in 1898 and died in 2001, the only player to have lived in three different centuries.

North Melbourne 1934 - North's dismal 1934 season was the third time that the Kangaroos had gone winless (1926 & 1931) but Roos fans no doubt demoralized by the Great Depression and their side's poor showings on the field would have felt even more gloomy had they known that it would take another 41 years for North to win the 1975 premiership. This was the year color TV was introduced to Australia; back in 1934 few Australians would have known what a television was, much less seen one.

Hawthorn 1950 - This was the second time the Hawks had gone winless, the other occasion being in 1928. Hawthorn, which apart from 1943 had gotten nowhere near the finals, improved throughout the 1950s to make the finals for the first time in 1957. In 1961, 11 years after one of the poorest seasons on record, Hawthorn thrashed Footscray on a hot afternoon to win their first Grand Final.

Fitzroy 1964 - The 'Swinging 60s' started so well for the Lions with good seasons in 1960 and 1961, but Fitzroy declined quickly and went 0-18 in 1964, finishing bottom 3 every season from 1962-1969 inclusive. At the time of their winless season in 1964 their last premiership in 1944 already lay 20 years in the past, and while they did improve in the 1970s and 1980s another 32 years went by without a premiership before the club, struggling on and off the field, merged with the Brisbane Bears to form the Brisbane Lions after the 1996 season.

So what of other high level state league teams that went winless?

In the VFA/VFL post 1990, Camberwell Cobras folded after a winless 1990 season. The Coburg Lions which won back to back flags in 1988 and 1989 completely degenerated to finish last without a win by 1993. Given how many clubs from this league have departed over the years the Lions deserve some credit for still being there, but regardless Coburg have not won a premiership since their winless season 28 years ago. Powerful Williamstown ran last without a victory in 1995, but turned things around and won the 2003 premiership 8 years later. Bendigo as the Diggers (2001 & 2002), Bombers (2009) and Gold (2013 & 2014) had 5 winless seasons, but never won a premiership and disbanded after 2014. Frankston went winless in 2015, but 6 years on the Dolphins still only have the 1978 Second Division premiership to show for their time in the VFL/VFA from 1965 onwards.

SANFL team Sturt had an infamous 1995 season, where they went 0-22, this the 7th of 8th successive wooden spoons. The Double Blues did turn things around, making the finals in 1997, topping the ladder and finishing runner up in 1998 and winning the 2002 premiership. The other winless SANFL teams post World War 2 are Central Districts, which failed to win a match in 1964 and had to wait 36 years to their first premiership in 2000, this setting off 12 successive Grand Finals for 9 premierships for the Bulldogs from 2000-2011. The 1964 premiership was won by South Adelaide, the first flag for the Panthers for many years and following winless 1948 and 1950 seasons. Unfortunately for South, 1964 remains their most recent flag to date and they haven't played a Grand Final since 1979.

Winless WAFL seasons are very rare, the only team to do it since World War 1 is Peel Thunder, which was winless in 1999 and a COVID shortened 2020 season. Peel Thunder did win the 2016 premiership 17 years after their winless season and added another one in 2017, but it was controversial and unpopular due to the alignment with the Fremantle Dockers.

In other high level football, the Gold Coast Suns Reserves team went winless in the 2013 NEAFL season, the only team in this league to achieve this. Eight years on, the Gold Coast seconds have not managed a flag. The only winless VSFL Under 18/TAC Cup/NAB League team to date is the 2000 Northern Knights team. A powerhouse in the 1990s with four straight premierships, the Knights have not added another flag since, and at the time of their winless 2000 season their current squad were still 2-3 years away from being born.

 

[Ron The Bear]

None of 2021's 33 debutants is Aboriginal, making this the first year since 1993 - when Adrian McAdam was the only Aboriginal debutant for the season - that no Aboriginal players have made a debut in the first three rounds.

Edit: retracted

 

[stemline]

Pretty sure Tyler Brockman (Hawks) is indigenous.

 

[35Daicos]

None of 2021's 33 debutants is Aboriginal, making this the first year since 1993 - when Adrian McAdam was the only Aboriginal debutant for the season - that no Aboriginal players have made a debut in the first three rounds.

Pretty sure Tyler Brockman (Hawks) is indigenous.

Yes, he is. I was just about to post that! The AFL Record Season Guide failed to include his name on the list of indigenous players, but it does belong there. I did mention that in this post on the Aboriginal Statistics? thread.

 

[Generalissimo]

On Easter Monday all five of Geelong's listed interchange players- including Charlie Constable

18

Charlie Constable

Age

22

Ht

191cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

9.0

3star

HB

12.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

22.4

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

12.4

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

the medical sub- kicked goals. I'm pretty sure that's the first time it's happened.

 

[Wallaby]

Interesting factoid:

Many people are aware that David Cloke kicked 8 goals in his last game for Richmond. What many don't realise (including me up until a few minutes ago) was that he played all 22 games that year and kicked a total of ........ 9 goals. In the previous season he had played 21 games - and kicked 2 goals (one goal in each of 2 games). So over the 2 years he didn't kick a goal in 39 of 43 games. In his first stint at Richmond, he had kicked 261 goals in 176 games.

Richmond finished 11th and 13th in those 2 years.

 

[worbod]

After kicking three goals versus Essendon tonight Lance Franklin now has 1000 goals in senior AFL competition:

950 home and away
46 preseason
4 state of origin

 

[worbod]

On the cricket website sportstats.com.au recently there was a small article featuring India's Srinivasaraghavan Venkataraghavan and West Indies' Clive Lloyd. It states how Venkat and Lloyd first faced each other in a Test on December 13, 1966 and then lastly "combatted" each other on a cricket field on December 6, 2003 when Venkat was an umpire and Lloyd a match referee in a Test in Sri Lanka. The gap of nearly 37 years (13,508 days) is thought to be a cricket record for two players "against each other for longest".
It made me think of a football equivalent. I came up with Kevin Sheedy and David Parkin who first faced each other as players on May 13, 1967 and then faced off as coaches on August 26, 2000: a span of 12,160 days over 33 years. But I think the record must surely be between Sheedy and Mick Malthouse. They first opposed each other as players on July 29, 1972 and then did battle as coaches for the final time on June 1, 2013, a span of 14,918 days over nearly 41 years.

 

[The Swert]

On the cricket website sportstats.com.au recently there was a small article featuring India's Srinivasaraghavan Venkataraghavan and West Indies' Clive Lloyd. It states how Venkat and Lloyd first faced each other in a Test on December 13, 1966 and then lastly "combatted" each other on a cricket field on December 6, 2003 when Venkat was an umpire and Lloyd a match referee in a Test in Sri Lanka. The gap of nearly 37 years (13,508 days) is thought to be a cricket record for two players "against each other for longest".
It made me think of a football equivalent. I came up with Kevin Sheedy and David Parkin who first faced each other as players on May 13, 1967 and then faced off as coaches on August 26, 2000: a span of 12,160 days over 33 years. But I think the record must surely be between Sheedy and Mick Malthouse. They first opposed each other as players on July 29, 1972 and then did battle as coaches for the final time on June 1, 2013, a span of 14,918 days over nearly 41 years.

Jock McHale and Checker Hughes had a quite the long rivalry - 1914 to 1948 - 34 years - plus a 50/50 win loss record between the two.

 

[emuboy]

In the late 1980s-early 1990s Ricky Nixon played for St. Kilda and Richard Nixon played for Richmond, but the two players with similar names were never in the same match. When Richard Nixon played for the Tigers against the Saints Ricky Nixon was not playing for St Kilda, and conversely when Ricky Nixon was playing for the Saints in a match against the Tigers, Richard Nixon was not in the Richmond team.

Both Nixons however did play in matches against Hawthorn teams containing John Kennedy.

 

[emuboy]

Carl Willis, who played for University from 1912-1914, then South Melbourne in 1915 and again after the First World War in 1920 & 1921, holds a unique record.

Willis is the only University player to ever be suspended during the club's brief VFL tenure from 1908-1914, receiving a 4 match ban for striking St. Kilda's Fred Hanson in a match at the MCG in May 1912.

 

[worbod]

In the late 1980s-early 1990s Ricky Nixon played for St. Kilda and Richard Nixon played for Richmond, but the two players with similar names were never in the same match. When Richard Nixon played for the Tigers against the Saints Ricky Nixon was not playing for St Kilda, and conversely when Ricky Nixon was playing for the Saints in a match against the Tigers, Richard Nixon was not in the Richmond team.

Both Nixons however did play in matches against Hawthorn teams containing John Kennedy.

Both Nixons also played in matches against North Melbourne teams coached by John Kennedy.

 

[The Swert]

Nathan Jones has played 300 games and has a winning record at only one venue... Adelaide Oval.

Kade Simpsons only had a winning record at one venue... Wellington NZ.

 

[scaryness]

Jake Lloyd

44

Jake Lloyd

Age

27

Ht

181cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

403.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

9.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

403.9

5star

D

23.2

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

357.4

5star

recorded only one clanger according to CD in Round 6 vs Gold Coast, which is a flat out lie.

 

[Catsace]

Nathan Jones has played 300 games and has a winning record at only one venue... Adelaide Oval.

Kade Simpsons only had a winning record at one venue... Wellington NZ.

Nathan Jones and Joel Selwood's respective winning records are almost mirror images of each other. But maybe like Robert Flower in '87, he's making up for lost time in 2021.

 

[emuboy]

Nathan Jones has played 300 games and has a winning record at only one venue... Adelaide Oval.

Kade Simpsons only had a winning record at one venue... Wellington NZ.

Jeff Hogg, who played for Richmond (1986-1993) and Fitzroy (1994-1996) had a winning record at only one venue, the Sydney Cricket Ground, where he had a 4-3 record with the Tigers, but never played for the Lions against the Swans in Sydney. He never played in winning matches in Perth or Adelaide, and just once in Queensland at Carrara, all other games played against the Bears in Brisbane or on the Gold Coast were in losing teams.

 

[Catsace]

Geelong and West Coast have now won 27 games each and one draw in the 55 completed matches between the clubs.

Somewhat amazingly given this now significant number of matches, Geelong has outscored the Eagles by 768 points over this time, for a head to head percentage of 116.49 (Courtesy of Roger's Results website).

 

[emuboy]

AFL players whose surnames start with Z are uncommon, there are only 23 to date however there are 5 current players whose surnames start with Z. These are Jack Ziebell and Cameron Zurhaar for North Melbourne, the Brisbane Lions' Dayne Zorko and Essendon players Brandon Zerk-Thatcher and David Zaharakis.
What of the other uncommon letters for surnames?

X - As well as having two players with Z surnames, North Melbourne in 2020 debuted the first senior player whose surname started with X, Tristan Xerri. He played 4 games in his debut season for the Kangaroos.

I - There have been 48 I surname players, but only two current players. These are Connor Idun from GWS and Hawthorn's Jarman Impey.

Q - A total of 27 Q players have played in the AFL, but just one at present. This is Collingwood's Isaac Quaynor. When Quaynor debuted for the Magpies in a loss to Hawthorn in Round 16 2019, he became the first Q player to play senior AFL football in 9 years, the previous one being forgotten Essendon player Michael Quinn who played his last match in Round 21 2010 against Brisbane.

U - Only 21 U players have played in the AFL/VFL. There are none at present, and the most recent time a player with a U surname was in a senior AFL match was in Round 17 2013, when Gerald Ugle played for GWS against Essendon.

Unhappily, if you have an I, Q, U, X or Z surname, your chances of playing in a premiership are slim. The last time an I player won a premiership was in 1977 by Steven Icke of North Melbourne, for Q it was Bryan Quirk for Carlton in 1968 and for Z it was Eric Zschech for Richmond way back in 1934, Zscheh also a Tigers' premiership player in 1932 and the only Z player to date to ever win a flag. The only player with a realistic chance of ending the drought this year would probably be Dayne Zorko for Brisbane.

No X player has obviously played in a premiership team, and there has never been a U premiership player either. Closest was Max Urquhart for Collingwood who played in the Magpies' 4-point GF loss to Melbourne in 1964, while Troy Ugle played senior football for the West Coast Eagles in 1992 but not in their winning GF team.

 

[Wallaby]

Brilliant.

Obvious detailed follow-up question -

Has any player had a higher consonant-to-vowel ratio in his surname than Eric Zschech (6-1)?

And extra bonus question - how was it pronounced?

 

[emuboy]

Brilliant.

Obvious detailed follow-up question -

Has any player had a higher consonant-to-vowel ratio in his surname than Eric Zschech (6-1)?

And extra bonus question - how was it pronounced?

It was a shorter name, but there was Melbourne's Adam Yze in the 1990s and early 2000s. (You-Zay)